Potential Scotrail 170 cascade

[hibtastic]

158s and 156s are best suited for the circles. Turbos are no good for stop start journeys. They are designed for long distance runs at higher constant speeds. 100mph units that can get up to 90 max once or twice during their journey round the circle.

Fair enough but the doors at the end of the coaches on the 156/158's are a nightmare when the train has a standing load which is a very regular occurrence.

The 170 is better as it is easier to get on and off, particularly for a stopping service. The 170 is also generally a much more pleasant experience.

 

[GatwickDepress]

fully agree with the toliet statement. The small "broom cupboard" toilet in the 170s has seats just adjacent to it (just outside the door) and if you think about it, this is quite horrible really. Same as 375s/377s and many other stock types.

Just for the sake of a little bit of space.

Better than standing. Can fit entire family into it (the seats, not the toilet) when we travelled in the peak out of London Charing Cross.

 

[Yabbadabba]

Well they can go anywhere they spend the necessary money on gauge clearance.

The idea that they cannot go anywhere else but the GW is something of an exaggeration and not really supported by recent events. As I've mentioned before, they were cleared a couple of years ago from Guildford to Basingstoke via Woking; and from Redhill to Selhurst, with no apparent infrastructure work being done at all.

It seems to me that if they can run on those routes, there must be at least some other routes that they can be cleared for relatively easily.

They were only cleared to Selhurst via the Brighton main line as a out of guage load with restrictions and at some station platforms on route they were not permitted pass at all.

 

[Class83]

Transport Scotland are not fond of the 170s and the franchise spec was written to include specific rolling stock requirements for each line which the 170s don't meet in some cases. They even go as far as saying toilets on board trains must not release odours in to the saloon, which possibly made bidders think twice about taking on the Voyagers currently with Virgin.

The agreement between Abellio and Transport Scotland is that all the 170s will be released once they have the extra 321s, the new Hitachi EMUs and the HSTs. There's even the option for some Sprinters being released if additional electrification goes ahead and the option for more EMUs goes ahead. However, overall the number of carriages in Scotland will be increased.

I always suspect it's more some Aberdeen/Inverness based commentators who're not fond of the 170s on the Edinburgh/Glasgow/Stirling/Fife routes they are generally seen as the best trains and cope well with passenger flows. The layout of the electric trains ordered from Hitachi shows that the mid door (170) layout is preferred to the end door (156/158) layout.

I generally agree with Hibtastic that the speed of boarding/alighting when the trains are full and standing at Haymarket and Inverkeithing is more important that acceleration for Fife Circle/Dundee services. As far as I'm aware there hasn't been an official statement of what stock is going to run the non-scenic, non-electrified, non-intercity services. But most of them are more suited to 170s than 158s.

 

[SC318250]

Has it been decided which 170 is going south for Southern to evaluate yet and when?

All of 415-424 were in service today

 

[MCR247]

I would imagine they are required to maintain the units. Faults and failures happen often that anything out of traffic just gets robbed for spares.

Yes but as part of the contract with ROSCOs all stock must be returned in working condition so Scotrail will have to pay out to sort 411 then

 

[Wolfie]

Yes but as part of the contract with ROSCOs all stock must be returned in working condition so Scotrail will have to pay out to sort 411 then

Clearer than my post but same intent. I don't imagine the others can be returned trashed either...

 

[scotraildriver]

411 has been out of traffic for months now, heavily stripped up the depot. Even a coupler has been removed meaning it can only be moved from one end. Unlikely it can move under its own power. Several things have been used for spares for other units. Even one of the cabs is missing it's driving seat.

Its just waiting for a test run to re enter service. New bogies, boilers, surge tanks all fitted. Suspect it may just have been due overhaul.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Its just waiting for a test run to re enter service. New bogies, boilers, surge tanks all fitted. Suspect it may just have been due overhaul.

Boilers?

 

[scotraildriver]

Boilers?

Yes 170's have boilers for the heating.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Blimey - I thought they used either ETH or waste heat from the engines!

Where are the boilers fitted on a 170? Is it one per carriage?

 

[scotraildriver]

Blimey - I thought they used either ETH or waste heat from the engines!

Where are the boilers fitted on a 170? Is it one per carriage?

Yes 1 per coach underframe on drivers side, between the hydrostatic and and shore supply sockets

 

[Scotrail84]

Yes 1 per coach underframe on drivers side, between the hydrostatic and and shore supply sockets

Yes, boiler unit faults are all too common when checking to see why the heating is not operating correctly

 

[matchmaker]

Yes, boiler unit faults are all too common when checking to see why the heating is not operating correctly

Diesel fuelled I assume? If that's the case, I'm surprised given that I'm sure there were problems with the unreliability of the diesel powered heaters on 1st generation DMUs.

 

[edwin_m]

Diesel fuelled I assume? If that's the case, I'm surprised given that I'm sure there were problems with the unreliability of the diesel powered heaters on 1st generation DMUs.

Not sure how else you would power a heating system on a DMU that has to work when the engine is cold. Does it cut over to using engine waste heat once it warms up?

 

[SprinterJedi]

Not sure how else you would power a heating system on a DMU that has to work when the engine is cold. Does it cut over to using engine waste heat once it warms up?

Straight forward auxilary heater. Its main mission in life is pre heat for engine. Heating circuit via matrix and fan motors is fed via engine cooling circuit controlled by a PLC.

 

[Bevan Price]

IF enough 170s become spare & are released from Scotland, I would suggest that Cross Country needs some, to boost the inadequate 2 car formations on many services. Chiltern might want others, to replace loco-hauled duties. Of course, Scotland might want some to replace 156s on Carlisle - Glasgow services, as the 156s will then be approaching 30 years old. .

 

[83G/84D]

Well they can go anywhere they spend the necessary money on gauge clearance.

The idea that they cannot go anywhere else but the GW is something of an exaggeration and not really supported by recent events. As I've mentioned before, they were cleared a couple of years ago from Guildford to Basingstoke via Woking; and from Redhill to Selhurst, with no apparent infrastructure work being done at all.

It seems to me that if they can run on those routes, there must be at least some other routes that they can be cleared for relatively easily.

165001 did get to Plymouth in 1991 on clearance trials but the step boards were removed, AFAIK the only visit of a 165/166 to Devon.