Details taken because I didn't pay the fare

[CC 72100]

Perhaps the staff could have done this another way, e.g. asked the driver/guard not to release the doors at the station until such time as details were provided. That might well have caused passenger action to ensure that the details were provided without the staff needing to take such action

Neil

And delay the rest of the train in doing so? Errr no thanks.

 

[6Gman]

Hi there, Today I boarded the train without a ticket because I was late and didn't have the time to purchase the ticket otherwise I would be Late to College. The journey is only 7 minutes.

Ticket Man came across and asked for my ticket, there for I have explained my situation and handed my credit card over but he just got his note pad out and asked me to put my details.The first inspector handed the credit card back to me, while the second inspector came by and said he will deal with me. Well that lead him grabbing my credit card of my hand. I have asked for my credit card back he refused, his answer was "Put the details down and you will get your credit card back" after arguing with him he gave me my credit card back, but then another man come over and grabs my credit card without my permission forcing me to put my details on the paper, I refused because he took my credit card and forced me to do it. After arguing with him I wrote my name, address and dob. Only After that he handed my credit card back to me.

My question is what will happen next? Because I did not get any paper work, nor I had to sign something. Also I did not get told I could appeal against it within 21 days nor told that I could pay for the penalty on the spot.

Did this happen on the train or on the platform at St Austell?

 

[GadgetMan]

grabbed my bank card from my hand without my permission and refused to give it back.

If the Inspector wasn't holding your bank card, would you have co-operated and given him your correct name and address? Or would you have gone round in circles arguing you were willing to pay on the train and didn't see what the problem was?

 

[Wolfie]

It sounds open and shut, and all the injured indignation over the rude man is probably because the rude man found a way to get the details out of a fare-evader who did not want to give them knowing their stop was only a few minutes off.

I have to say that I have little sympathy about people dodging fares. However, if a railway employee snatched my card and refused to return it, I would be dialling 999 immediately and asking for the police. The inspector had ZERO right to take property that didn't belong to him and, if that is the way he behaves, shouldn't be in a customer facing role. Had he been assaulted as a result there are many on here would be deeply unhappy despite his own actions being a massive contributory factor..

 

[Bletchleyite]

If the Inspector wasn't holding your bank card, would you have co-operated and given him your correct name and address? Or would you have gone round in circles arguing you were willing to pay on the train and didn't see what the problem was?

I see both sides of this. It was a practical solution, but it was also arguably a criminal offence, or at the very least a breach of procedure.

I would report it - the fairest outcome is most likely that both parties are in trouble for their respective offences.

Neil

 

[alexkonusa]

Did this happen on the train or on the platform at St Austell?

On the train
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

If the Inspector wasn't holding your bank card, would you have co-operated and given him your correct name and address? Or would you have gone round in circles arguing you were willing to pay on the train and didn't see what the problem was?

Yes, Once he would explain to me what happened, because no word was said to me. I will be speaking to someone on the station tomorrow as I have never reported someone.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Deny everything about the fare evasion. Far too many people are fined because they simply accept everything! Railways rely on this and know it.

If they were that serious about preventing it they would install UTS gates at every station!

I will Deny The Fare Jumping as its not the case, I have tickets from like 2-3 weeks. That show I buy tickets to get to college, but when someone is rude to you and does not explain anything it is real easy to over react.

I have asked the Inspectors to show me documents, which state that they are allowed to take my personal document of me and refuse to give it back. All i got told that they are allowed to do it and showed me their name on their employee badge.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

I will Deny The Fare Jumping as its not the case, I have tickets from like 2-3 weeks. That show I buy tickets to get to college, but when someone is rude to you and does not explain anything it is real easy to over react.

It is a matter of fact that you were unale to produce a ticket and had not paid the fare due. It will be another matter of fact whether there were ticket selling facilities at Par in working order. Whether or not an offence was commited will be decided on these facts.

I have asked the Inspectors to show me documents, which state that they are allowed to take my personal document of me and refuse to give it back. All i got told that they are allowed to do it and showed me their name on their employee badge.

As I understand your messages, the card was returned to you and only retained during the discussion or interview. If I am wrong about this, and the card is still retained by the Company, then you would be right to ask for a statement of reasons. But it it was returned, then there is no refusal - just a question of the sequence of events which, to my reading, is of no consequence.

I disagree strongly with the poster who referred to this in terms of an 'assault'.
I don't think your report of 'rudeness' is of any significance to the incident, but you are absolutely free to make a written complaint if you truly feel that it is appropriate, but not if you think your complaint might reduce the impact of the main issue - that you did not present a ticket when requested.

 

[EM2]

I will Deny The Fare Jumping as its not the case, I have tickets from like 2-3 weeks. That show I buy tickets to get to college, but when someone is rude to you and does not explain anything it is real easy to over react.

It IS the case. You didn't buy a ticket before you boarded, even though the facilites were there (i.e. machine or office). You've already committed one offence even before we get to any discussion of the inspector's actions.

 

[NSEFAN]

alexkonusa, if you receive a letter from FGW saying they are wanting to prosecute, make sure you note which regulations they are seeking to prosecution under, the railway byelaws or the regulation of railways act. They are both serious, but the latter more so as conviction can carry a criminal record and a large fine!

 

[Class377]

I will Deny The Fare Jumping as its not the case, I have tickets from like 2-3 weeks. That show I buy tickets to get to college, but when someone is rude to you and does not explain anything it is real easy to over react.

And putting across that defence would probably get you off a Regulation of the Railways Act charge. It's highly unlikely you'd be prosecuted for that though - FGW will look at prosecuting under the byelaws, and to be guilty of breaching that you only need to fail to show a valid ticket, regardless of intention.

 

[DarloRich]

is it acceptable for a member of staff to misappropriate anothers property in this manner?

The holier than thou brigade wont like this but i would have refused to give any details until such time as the card was returned and/or the police were called. I might even have rung them myself!

 

[SouthStand]

I have to say that I have little sympathy about people dodging fares. However, if a railway employee snatched my card and refused to return it, I would be dialling 999 immediately and asking for the police. The inspector had ZERO right to take property that didn't belong to him and, if that is the way he behaves, shouldn't be in a customer facing role. Had he been assaulted as a result there are many on here would be deeply unhappy despite his own actions being a massive contributory factor..

Agreed. I bet the two of them wouldn't have been quite so confident if it hadn't been a young college student they were trying to intimidate. How much was the fare? Probably only a fiver or so.

 

[Agent_c]

And delay the rest of the train in doing so? Errr no thanks.

I did see that once on a Scotrail train. Passenger refused to pay, so the conductor stopped the train until she got off.

I think in the end though the passenger won, the conductor decided the delay was too great and just allowed the train to continue

 

[alexkonusa]

Agreed. I bet the two of them wouldn't have been quite so confident if it hadn't been a young college student they were trying to intimidate. How much was the fare? Probably only a fiver or so.

Well they did call me "Smart Boy" For requesting a document that states that they are allowed to take my personal belongings. Also laughed and waved as i left the train.

 

[Darandio]

Well they did call me "Smart Boy" For requesting a document that states that they are allowed to take my personal belongings. Also laughed and waved as i left the train.

The 'nasty men' do a lot of 'nasty' things, we read it all the time on here.

IMO, it's all completely irrelevant in this case, you'd already committed the offence before any of this had happened.

 

[DelayRepay]

There was two inspectors, I handed over my card to one of the inspectors with words i'm willing to pay for the ticket and the fine.

If the first thing you said to the inspector was that you were willing to pay the fine, this suggests that you knew the score and knew you had broken the law. Unfortunately I do not think this kind of attitude would go down well - it makes you look like someone who is used to playing the system, even if that's not the case.

Irrespective of the inspector's attitude or behavior, the fact is that you failed to buy a ticket for reasons which were of your own making.

Out of interest, is your card a "full" debit card or an online only card? You may not know but the latter cannot be used on trains. If the inspector recognised that you were trying to pay with a card which would not work, this may explain his attitude towards you.

My advice would be wait until you receive a letter then come back here and tell us what it says. Someone will advise you on the best course of action. In the mean time, start saving as this could be an expensive incident.

 

[alexkonusa]

If the first thing you said to the inspector was that you were willing to pay the fine, this suggests that you knew the score and knew you had broken the law. Unfortunately I do not think this kind of attitude would go down well - it makes you look like someone who is used to playing the system, even if that's not the case.

Irrespective of the inspector's attitude or behavior, the fact is that you failed to buy a ticket for reasons which were of your own making.

Out of interest, is your card a "full" debit card or an online only card? You may not know but the latter cannot be used on trains. If the inspector recognised that you were trying to pay with a card which would not work, this may explain his attitude towards you.

My advice would be wait until you receive a letter then come back here and tell us what it says. Someone will advise you on the best course of action. In the mean time, start saving as this could be an expensive incident.

Well its a full debit card. I guess I wont be using the trains. Ruining someones future over £3.30 when it all can be settled with a simple fine. But yeah when the letter will come thought will see what happens.

 

[najaB]

Ruining someones future over £3.30 when it all can be settled with a simple fine.

Getting into this situation when it all could be avoided by buying a ticket...

 

[DarloRich]

If the first thing you said to the inspector was that you were willing to pay the fine, this suggests that you knew the score and knew you had broken the law. Unfortunately I do not think this kind of attitude would go down well - it makes you look like someone who is used to playing the system, even if that's not the case.

Irrespective of the inspector's attitude or behavior, the fact is that you failed to buy a ticket for reasons which were of your own making.

Out of interest, is your card a "full" debit card or an online only card? You may not know but the latter cannot be used on trains. If the inspector recognised that you were trying to pay with a card which would not work, this may explain his attitude towards you.

My advice would be wait until you receive a letter then come back here and tell us what it says. Someone will advise you on the best course of action. In the mean time, start saving as this could be an expensive incident.

It doesn't matter what sort of card it is!

Is it right that the card was simply snatched out of a persons hand and held until they completed a form? I wonder if that would seem acceptable to a court.

(NB - I doubt it is quite as clear cut as the OP suggests but, prima facie, it is worrying if a staff member "took" something that didn't belong to them and used the fact that they were holding that property against the owners will to extract personal data!)

 

[DelayRepay]

Well its a full debit card. I guess I wont be using the trains. Ruining someones future over £3.30 when it all can be settled with a simple fine. But yeah when the letter will come thought will see what happens.

Well, nobody has ruined your future over £3.30 yet and there is a good chance you'll be able to resolve this without it going to court. Even if it does go to court and you are found guilty, the legislation they are likely to use won't leave you with a criminal record.

But, you made the choice to board the train without a ticket and there are times when we have to take responsibility for our own actions and decisions rather than trying to blame someone else.

Ask yourself honestly, if the inspector hadn't caught you, would you have ever paid for this journey or would you have treated it as a freebie?

How often do you travel? Maybe it would be worth buying a season ticket then you won't have this problem again.

 

[alexkonusa]

It doesn't matter what sort of card it is!

Is it right that the card was simply snatched out of a persons hand and held until they completed a form? I wonder if that would seem acceptable to a court.

(NB - I doubt it is quite as clear cut as the OP suggests but, prima facie, it is worrying if a staff member "took" something that didn't belong to them and used the fact that they were holding that property against the owners will to extract personal data!)

Yes the card was snatched out of my hand, And after asking number of times for my card back all i was getting "We are allowed to do that".
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Well, nobody has ruined your future over £3.30 yet and there is a good chance you'll be able to resolve this without it going to court. Even if it does go to court and you are found guilty, the legislation they are likely to use won't leave you with a criminal record.

But, you made the choice to board the train without a ticket and there are times when we have to take responsibility for our own actions and decisions rather than trying to blame someone else.

Ask yourself honestly, if the inspector hadn't caught you, would you have ever paid for this journey or would you have treated it as a freebie?

How often do you travel? Maybe it would be worth buying a season ticket then you won't have this problem again.

I travel Three days a week, this September it will Be 5 days a week. Well anyway thank you for help. Kinda cleared some things out, but yeah I won't be able to afford or find the sort of money if I go to court. As i'm only 18 still at college and don't work.

 

[Flamingo]

I cannot believe some of the absolute rubbish being posted on this thread. The OP is clearly trying to find out if they can muddy the water enough by making allegations of bullying to get her blatant fare evasion thrown out, and the usual suspects are acting as cheerleaders without giving it a second thought.

I'm posting this at 20.50 and expect it to be deleted before 21.00 as I'm being nasty to the poor op and others with no idea posting on here.

 

[DelayRepay]

It doesn't matter what sort of card it is!

Is it right that the card was simply snatched out of a persons hand and held until they completed a form? I wonder if that would seem acceptable to a court.

(NB - I doubt it is quite as clear cut as the OP suggests but, prima facie, it is worrying if a staff member "took" something that didn't belong to them and used the fact that they were holding that property against the owners will to extract personal data!)

The type of card doesn't excuse the (alleged) behavior of the RPI, but it may explain his attitude. I think if I found someone without a ticket, who immediately handed me a card which I knew wouldn't work and told me he was willing to pay the fine, I would not trust them too much.

It is not right that the card was snatched out of the person's hand, and it is not right that the person got on the train without a ticket and (perhaps) refused to give their details. There are a lot of things that are not right here but I would not want the OP to think that the inspector's behavior in any way excuses or justifies his decision to travel without a ticket.

 

[Class377]

Well its a full debit card. I guess I wont be using the trains. Ruining someones future over £3.30 when it all can be settled with a simple fine. But yeah when the letter will come thought will see what happens.

Even if it does go to court and you are found guilty, it's a non-recordable offence (much like a speeding fine) and so it won't go on a criminal record and won't be found out by anyone else (apart from potentially being in a "court report") so employers wouldn't know about it unless you decided to tell them.

I agree that it's normal to feel a bit shell-shocked, but this advice refers to the worst-case scenario.

It is highly likely that you will have to pay some sort of fee to keep it out of court, but this is something that happens to a vast number of people on a regular basis and shouldn't detract you from using the railways, but merely remind you of your obligations to buy a ticket.

 

[DarloRich]

I cannot believe some of the absolute rubbish being posted on this thread. The OP is clearly trying to find out if they can muddy the water enough by making allegations of bullying to get her blatant fare evasion thrown out, and the usual suspects are acting as cheerleaders without giving it a second thought. And as for what rmt4ever is posting, it is so misleading and misguided as to be beneath comment, except to say that if that's their attitude I would view them as being beneath contempt.

I'm posting this at 20.50 and expect it to be deleted before 21.00.

that's my point - an open and shut case is jepordised by not following the correct procedures. An easy conviction, and one that in my mind the OP should be facing is, potentially, at risk. How can that be a good thing?

 

[alexkonusa]

Thank you for the help.

 

[najaB]

I'm posting this at 20.50 and expect it to be deleted before 21.00 as I'm being nasty to the poor op and other muppets with no idea posting on here.

Mmm... It's 20.58 and it is still here.

 

[DelayRepay]

that's my point - an open and shut case is jepordised by not following the correct procedures. An easy conviction, and one that in my mind the OP should be facing is, potentially, at risk. How can that be a good thing?

I think it's still an open and shut case - nothing the inspector did changes the fact that the OP did not have a ticket. If the inspector behaved inappropriately then by all means the OP can complain, but I would not want to give them false hope that this will somehow make their own problem go away.

 

[Llanigraham]

On the train
I will Deny The Fare Jumping as its not the case, I have tickets from like 2-3 weeks. That show I buy tickets to get to college, but when someone is rude to you and does not explain anything it is real easy to over react.

Bluntly.
The Law requires you to buy a ticket before you travel if there are facilities to do so.
At Par there are facilities.
You did not purchase a ticket.
What you have done in the past has no affect on this matter.

 

[Flamingo]

that's my point - an open and shut case is jepordised by not following the correct procedures. An easy conviction, and one that in my mind the OP should be facing is, potentially, at risk. How can that be a good thing?

The flip-side is that without getting the OP to give their details, then the open and shut case would not be happening either, as the OP would have walked off the train after their seven-minute journey, metaphorically or physically giving the finger to the train-crew.

And I can't see how this would potentially endanger a prosecution. I can't see the Magistrates being too impressed with "The nasty man held on to my card as I was refusing to give him my details (an offence) so he could report me for not having a ticket (another offence) without which I'd not be here today" as a valid argument.

The doctrine of "Clean Hands" would cover it nicely.