That's true, but then it's faster for me to travel to Shrewsbury via Cardiff, so no through journeys are made at the moment purely on the basis of speed. I don't know if this will have an impact on passenger numbers, but my feeling is that the journey times are so slow and trains so infrequent that people who have access to a vehicle will likely not take the train anyway, meaning that it's unlikely that those who have no other option will be deterred.
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Heart of Wales May 2015 Timetable
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berneyarms
Established Member
Well anyone making a local journey from intermediate stations through those crossing points is going to have a longer journey.
While the nature of the HOWL is not one where speed is critical, and is not a line where people would be making a through journey from Shrewsbury to Swansea for purposes other than enjoying the experience, these long waits are not making the service any more attractive. Quite the opposite.
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They will be longer for intermediate journeys, and I can see why people will find that annoying. But if they are captive tot eh railway, and I'd guess they are or they wouldn't be on the train, what can they do?
I'm not saying it's good or right, I'm just trying to take a pragmatic view. People wanted extra services to get them to Swansea and Shrewsbury, and various constraints mean that some things have to give to make that possible.
I don't know enough about the position with regards to stock, signalling, rostering, junctions etc, to be able to make any suggestions as to how things could be improved, so I have to trust the professionals that this is the best they could come up with at this time.
Maybe some slight tweaks could be made to make things better next time around.
I'm not saying it's good or right, I'm just trying to take a pragmatic view. People wanted extra services to get them to Swansea and Shrewsbury, and various constraints mean that some things have to give to make that possible.
I don't know enough about the position with regards to stock, signalling, rostering, junctions etc, to be able to make any suggestions as to how things could be improved, so I have to trust the professionals that this is the best they could come up with at this time.
Maybe some slight tweaks could be made to make things better next time around.
berneyarms
Established Member
I do understand all of that - and to be fair the pathing and set availability constraints do make life very difficult for the train planners.
merlodlliw
Established Member
Very well explained,two trains departing Craven Arms for Shrewsbury within nine minutes of each other,then nothing for an hour should have been picked up by WG rail division,after all this is peak commuting time.
PHILIPE
Veteran Member
The irony of the 08 00 Shrewsbury (starting Llandrindod) is that it is off pattern, the normal departure times being xx24. This is no doubt to enable passengers to reach Crewe at a suitable time for work. Any retarding they would be complaining. "You can please some of the people some of the time but you can't please all the people at all of the time" as the saying goes. .
berneyarms
Established Member
Not yet - the timetables have not yet been finalised.
The pdf timetables usually appear six weeks before implementation.
In the meantime you'll have to use realtime trains.
Gareth Marston
Established Member
The draft pdf's for the Cambrian and HOW are on the Cambrian thread in one of my posts.
duffield
Established Member
This thread's reminded me I've never 'done' the HOWL, so I'm considering getting the 13:14 from Swansea to Shrewsbury next Monday ('old' timetable, of course!). I assume this service would be fairly empty to start with but might fill up a bit as it gets closer to Shrewsbury?
PHILIPE
Veteran Member
Be assured, should be plenty of room especially at this time of year.
swcovas
Member
I did the journey on Wednesday 11th Feb (a long but enjoyable journey from Pembroke Dock to Hereford). Loaded to 25 leaving Llanelli then constant on and off all the way. Most we had was 35 leaving Llandrindod but had actually thinned out by time I got off at Craven Arms. I think the equivalent of this train which will run about 80 minutes later after May could be more popular at the southern end in the future.
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strettonarms96
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The service is used predominatley (95%) by college students and is always fully loaded. Shrewsbury is often a very important education centre with sixth form, shrewsbury college and the private schools. These all commence at 8.50 or 9 and 50 minutes to an hour is a long time to hang about, especially when they have left there house possibly 2 hours before needing to be in college/school.
Very poorly planned and shows how out of touch the planners in this instance are with the stakeholders.
Gareth Marston
Established Member
Conversely the argument we took to the Minster from the Cambrian was that there was demand for educational opportunity's in Shrewsbury from the Upper Severn Valley and we needed an arrival in the high peak and 0711 & 0925 were inconvenient!
craigybagel
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As well as the Shrewsbury students, there are also numerous students coming from stations Knucklas-Broome who change at Craven Arms for Hereford, who now face a 40 minute wait at Craven Arms every morning.
Gareth Marston
Established Member
It's a snakes and ladders plan moral of story is if you want new /extra services get extra rolling stock!
I worked this one a couple of days ago - it was a single 153 and was full from Ammanford. A nice day combined with the free bus-pass travel being in its last few weeks of the current run (finishes end of March) led to some very busy trains up there. If you're not constrained by time and will be paying for your ticket, I'd suggest waiting until April when the loadings will be lighter and weather may be better! Of course, if you're intending to travel the line using a bus pass for free travel then that needs to be done by the end of this month.
merlodlliw
Established Member
The stakeholder letter from ATW was sent out this week, I have picked up this item from it concerning the HOWL
ATW are obviously aware of the timetable situation.
ATW are obviously aware of the timetable situation.
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berneyarms
Established Member
As I said above ATW train planners are somewhat caught between a rock and a hard place.
Campaigners have sought extra trains on the Cambrian, HOWL and other locations, but ATW have been constrained by a lack of any extra rolling stock, and have had to dip into their maintenance cover for a few hours in the morning to deliver the Cambrian extra and retain the Wrexham commuter service.
The issue with the HOWL is that the stock is now intertwined with that on the Shrewsbury-Crewe service, and the extra morning service from Llandrindod is operated by the set that would normally spend the day shuttling between Shrewsbury and Crewe.
Without finding an extra set it's difficult to see how the HOWL can be meaningfully improved. My own feeling is that really the HOWL needs to be separate from the Shrewsbury-Crewe service, as it really is imposing far too many constraints on the timings.
I agree with this, particularly if the Cambrian is an improved service with no extra seats (by removing Pwllheli portion between Shrewsbury and Machynlleth on the existing runs). If that happens, I predict it won't be long before the press starts using the words 'victim', 'own' and 'success', or similar.
Llanigraham
On Moderation
Thanks for the reminder.
I must try again and hope that we don't break down approaching Cynghordy again!!
Thanks, have gone and printed that off now -- not to repeat what many others have said, but it looks absolutely appalling to me...
Sunday trains appear from the Journey Planner to be staying the same. I note your timetable says "Monday to Friday" at the top -- I take it that means the early half-trains won't run on Saturday. Will the rest of Saturday's timetable be the same as Monday to Friday or will it stay with the current Saturday timetable?
I did actually email the HOWL Forum before posting here and got this response:
Okay, fair enough, but if I can buy advance tickets for these trains that are only valid on that specific train, and then they change it "in light of feedback"??? And speaking of which, where can I give my feedback about the hideousness of the new timetable???
berneyarms
Established Member
The Saturday and Sunday timetables are the same as at present in the journey planner/real time trains.
It's only Monday-Friday that are changing.
It's only Monday-Friday that are changing.
Gareth Marston
Established Member
Monday to Thursday away from school holidays I suppose it will cope fine, that leaves 52 weekends and the holidays for it to get tested!
strettonarms96
Member
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The morning train into shrewsbury is 150, I'm guessing this will become a 153 if it is to shuttle between crewe and town all day??
swcovas
Member
From my experience I'm afraid that's about par for the course in getting info from the Forum! The website which, could provide far more information, averages 3/4 items per year in the news section and many of those are about engineering works. I once wrote that I thought the website could be far more informative and was told that it gets XXX thousand hits or whatever per year as if this is a measure of how good the site is! I frequently "hit" the site just in the hope that there just might be something of interest. Incidentally the site does now include The Community Rail Partnership Report for 2014-15.
Not sure I agree with you about the "hideousness" of the new tt. Not ideal by any means but a bit of an improvement on the current tt.
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Yes, I noticed that. I think it will be a shame if Sat times remain the same as at present as there are better leisure opportunities with for example a 1000 arrival in Swansea and 1435 dep back north.
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Can anyone shed any light on the changes to the diagrams involving HOW services given the changes on weekdays from May. I havent really studied the timetable, just picked up info on this thread and on real time trains.
I understand there will be no additional sets available so the 2 extra journeys will be made using current resources. Im guessing the set that would form the shrewsbury local services will form the new service to Llandrindod and return to Crewe at the north end of the HOW.
What about in the South? Currently the first HOW is formed off the set that does the overnight fishguard (and a second set attached at Carmarthen does the first Pembroke Dock) which is a 150. I would guess the same thing will happen and the set will simply sit in Swansea for the first departure now just after 6am.
As the new service to Llandovery and back starts at Carmarthen i am guessing the set will be there overnight. I know its been mentioned on return to Swansea it will do the fishguard service (currently paired up with a pembroke dock service and starting at Cardiff, assume now just a 150 will run Cardiff-Pembroke Dock with a seperate Swansea-Fishguard). So how will that set get to Carmarthen to form the early serivice to Llandovery, will an extra 150 stable overnight in Carmarthen or one run empty?
I understand the last service down from Shrewsbury will now run as a through service to Cardiff incorporating the last Swansea-Cardiff stopping service. Are any others running as through services to Cardiff? Ive not really looked into how good the arrival times are in Swansea to see if they are suitable to run as Swanline.
I understand there will be no additional sets available so the 2 extra journeys will be made using current resources. Im guessing the set that would form the shrewsbury local services will form the new service to Llandrindod and return to Crewe at the north end of the HOW.
What about in the South? Currently the first HOW is formed off the set that does the overnight fishguard (and a second set attached at Carmarthen does the first Pembroke Dock) which is a 150. I would guess the same thing will happen and the set will simply sit in Swansea for the first departure now just after 6am.
As the new service to Llandovery and back starts at Carmarthen i am guessing the set will be there overnight. I know its been mentioned on return to Swansea it will do the fishguard service (currently paired up with a pembroke dock service and starting at Cardiff, assume now just a 150 will run Cardiff-Pembroke Dock with a seperate Swansea-Fishguard). So how will that set get to Carmarthen to form the early serivice to Llandovery, will an extra 150 stable overnight in Carmarthen or one run empty?
I understand the last service down from Shrewsbury will now run as a through service to Cardiff incorporating the last Swansea-Cardiff stopping service. Are any others running as through services to Cardiff? Ive not really looked into how good the arrival times are in Swansea to see if they are suitable to run as Swanline.
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PHILIPE
Veteran Member
Suggest you have a look at RTT. All the services are there. Also the question re morning Llandrindod going to Crewe has already been documented on the thread.
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