Signals to driver when train starts off

[paulfoel]

Dont always get this it only seems to be certain trains.... ?

Get two beeps, then train starts to roll. Then two more as its moving.
Whats this out of interest?

Is it sort of like ok we can go? Then a 2nd yep we're still ok no-one stuck in the door etc?

 

[trentside]

It's the ready to start signal from guard to driver, repeated back by the driver to the guard.

You won't hear it on trains that don't have a guard controlling the doors.

 

[muz379]

It's the ready to start signal from guard to driver, repeated back by the driver to the guard.

You won't hear it on trains that don't have a guard controlling the doors.

This , you also wont hear it on trains with a guard where the train is dispatched by the RA indicator

 

[najaB]

You won't hear it on trains that don't have a guard controlling the doors.

You do hear it on Voyagers, which do have a guard but the driver controls the doors.

 

[trentside]

There are also various other codes that are used for communication between guard and driver. For example on Voyagers, the TM will signal the guard 1-2 indicating that the doors should be closed, before giving the ready to start once the doors are closed.

 

[Mugby]

I always think that the two beeps repeated back by the driver on units such a sprinters is a bit of an anachronism these days. It's like a carry over from steam days when the driver would sound the whistle to acknowledge the green flag.

I sometimes wonder if it's to tell the guard "Yes, it's me driving, I havn't been kidnapped and the train isn't being driven by aliens who don't know the code"!

 

[87019Chris]

You do hear it on Voyagers, which do have a guard but the driver controls the doors.

I was under the impression that as with GC's 180's the driver opens the door but the Guard/Senior Conductor is in charge of closing them, then giving the signal to the driver the it is okay to depart... (ready to be proved wrong )

 

[Jonfun]

Might be the case for 180s (don't know, not on my patch) but not for Voyagers.

 

[fairysdad]

What's the full set of these? I imagine there are more than just two which is the most common one. I'm sure I heard six while sat behind the cab on an FGW Pacer a week or so back; departing Crediton I think it was - we did stop before the points to allow the Barnstaple-bound train to clear so could it have been something to do with that?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I was under the impression that as with GC's 180's the driver opens the door but the Guard/Senior Conductor is in charge of closing them, then giving the signal to the driver the it is okay to depart... (ready to be proved wrong )

Voyagers only have signal buzzers and local door control in the train. So the guard has to give 1-2 to the driver to get him to close. Release is indeed by the driver.

 

[cf111]

What's the full set of these? I imagine there are more than just two which is the most common one. I'm sure I heard six while sat behind the cab on an FGW Pacer a week or so back; departing Crediton I think it was - we did stop before the points to allow the Barnstaple-bound train to clear so could it have been something to do with that?

There is a list on Wikipedia but I'm not sure how accurate it is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_code

 

[trentside]

There is a list on Wikipedia but I'm not sure how accurate it is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_code

Looks pretty accurate to me.

Officially, 2-2 should be 'Do not open doors. Driver/Guard to confer.'

As for 6, it's often used where there is a need to draw forward slightly to a remote signal or other location. Not something I've ever needed to use.

 

[Railsigns]

There is a list on Wikipedia but I'm not sure how accurate it is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_code

There's also 2-1, used by drivers on RETB lines to let the conductor know that the token has been received.

 

[A-driver]

I always think that the two beeps repeated back by the driver on units such a sprinters is a bit of an anachronism these days. It's like a carry over from steam days when the driver would sound the whistle to acknowledge the green flag.

I sometimes wonder if it's to tell the guard "Yes, it's me driving, I havn't been kidnapped and the train isn't being driven by aliens who don't know the code"!

Technically the driver should repeat te bells before starting to move as it's about repeating back the bell code to ensure it has been understood correctly. That way the guard can give 1 bell back (stop) should the driver have mis heard the original code.

 

[Bigfoot]

What's the full set of these? I imagine there are more than just two which is the most common one. I'm sure I heard six while sat behind the cab on an FGW Pacer a week or so back; departing Crediton I think it was - we did stop before the points to allow the Barnstaple-bound train to clear so could it have been something to do with that?

Was it 6 or 3-3 with minimal gap? 3-3 is probably more likely as it's a request from driver or guard to talk to the other.

 

[davetheguard]

What's the full set of these? I imagine there are more than just two which is the most common one. I'm sure I heard six while sat behind the cab on an FGW Pacer a week or so back; departing Crediton I think it was - we did stop before the points to allow the Barnstaple-bound train to clear so could it have been something to do with that?

The Guard shouldn't give the Driver the right away (2 on the buzzer) with the signal protecting the single line ahead displaying a danger aspect (red). So to give "draw up" (6 on the buzzer) was correct: i.e. it's O.K. to start the train, but also reminding the Driver of the red signal.

 

[Crossover]

Had an interesting one at Newton-le-Willows recently where the guard gave 6 - I think to draw forward to the next signal which was still red (as an aside, I don't believe this would happen in Scotland as it'd be treated as a platform starter). The driver then responded with the usual 2......

 

[matchmaker]

There's also 2-1, used by drivers on RETB lines to let the conductor know that the token has been received.

Can't currently remember what it was, but there was a reverse situation on the Aberdeen-Inverness Cross Country DMU sets where the automatic token exchange apparatus was under the control of the guard, who had to indicate to the driver that the token had been picked up/set down correctly.

 

[hulabaloo]

Why can't they communicate via intercom rather than use an antiquated system like this? It's like something from the Titanic, and we all know how that turned out.

 

[deltic1989]

I have often had it where the Guard will give 2 on the buzzer then the Driver will either, A) Give a small rev on the engine, then return the 2 or, B) Start the train moving, at low speed, then return the 2 and open the throttle more.
I always understood these 2 situations as being that the driver is ensuring that there is a full lock on the doors, checking that s/he can draw power before confirming the code. As without interlock I understand that the power handle is locked.

 

[cf111]

Why can't they communicate via intercom rather than use an antiquated system like this? It's like something from the Titanic, and we all know how that turned out.

It's quick, it's easy to understand and not every unit has a handset at the door control panel. I think 170s do but 158s don't.

I don't think many trains are at danger of sinking. Also many signal boxes still communicate using, some quite complex, bell codes.

 

[najaB]

Why can't they communicate via intercom rather than use an antiquated system like this? It's like something from the Titanic, and we all know how that turned out.

Because it is an extremely simple system with very little to go wrong. As to the analogy with the Titanic, I don't think I've ever heard that intra-ship communications played a role in the disaster - please explain.

 

[Searle]

Why can't they communicate via intercom rather than use an antiquated system like this? It's like something from the Titanic, and we all know how that turned out.

Are you trying to imply that an iceberg will grow on the tracks because of staff using bell codes?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Had an interesting one at Newton-le-Willows recently where the guard gave 6 - I think to draw forward to the next signal which was still red (as an aside, I don't believe this would happen in Scotland as it'd be treated as a platform starter). The driver then responded with the usual 2......

That's actually quite concerning in a way...

 

[Jonfun]

Why ?

 

[fairysdad]

Was it 6 or 3-3 with minimal gap? 3-3 is probably more likely as it's a request from driver or guard to talk to the other.

The Guard shouldn't give the Driver the right away (2 on the buzzer) with the signal protecting the single line ahead displaying a danger aspect (red). So to give "draw up" (6 on the buzzer) was correct: i.e. it's O.K. to start the train, but also reminding the Driver of the red signal.

I would say that 6 seems to be the most likely situation here. Drawing up to the points at the southern end of the station before the northbound train arrives has happened before at that location, not necessarily the 6 buzzes, I just heard it this time around because of where I was sat on the train and could hear most noises from the cab, but knowing what the 6 buzzes mean it seems to be the most likely.

It does seem a bit weird to do that though, given that we were waiting there a couple of minutes, when we could have quite easily waited at the platform instead and started moving once the northbound train was visible, not necessarily at the other platform, but given that it takes a short amount of time for dispatch if it was when it was visible then by the time the points were reached the opposing train would likely have passed (being a mere passenger, I realise that there are probably operational reasons for this, but given that it was a warm day and having the doors open at Credition gave a nice and welcome breeze through the train, to be sealed back in seemed a bit odd!).

 

[TDK]

That's actually quite concerning in a way...

Not if the signal ahead has cleared after getting the 6 it isn't
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I would say that 6 seems to be the most likely situation here. Drawing up to the points at the southern end of the station before the northbound train arrives has happened before at that location, not necessarily the 6 buzzes, I just heard it this time around because of where I was sat on the train and could hear most noises from the cab, but knowing what the 6 buzzes mean it seems to be the most likely.

It does seem a bit weird to do that though, given that we were waiting there a couple of minutes, when we could have quite easily waited at the platform instead and started moving once the northbound train was visible, not necessarily at the other platform, but given that it takes a short amount of time for dispatch if it was when it was visible then by the time the points were reached the opposing train would likely have passed (being a mere passenger, I realise that there are probably operational reasons for this, but given that it was a warm day and having the doors open at Credition gave a nice and welcome breeze through the train, to be sealed back in seemed a bit odd!).

If you wait and depart from the station late NR will fine the TOC
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I have often had it where the Guard will give 2 on the buzzer then the Driver will either, A) Give a small rev on the engine, then return the 2 or, B) Start the train moving, at low speed, then return the 2 and open the throttle more.
I always understood these 2 situations as being that the driver is ensuring that there is a full lock on the doors, checking that s/he can draw power before confirming the code. As without interlock I understand that the power handle is locked.

If the doors are not closed the brakes will not release on most units
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The Guard shouldn't give the Driver the right away (2 on the buzzer) with the signal protecting the single line ahead displaying a danger aspect (red). So to give "draw up" (6 on the buzzer) was correct: i.e. it's O.K. to start the train, but also reminding the Driver of the red signal.

In fact the rule is for a guard to give 6 only if the train is occupying any of the platform after starting away however guards will give 6 if there is a signal ahead even like newton le willows where it is about 100 yards from the platform. In fact to be absolutely correct the guard should give 2 on the buzzer however in my opinion and most drivers 6 is the safer method or at least confer with the driver.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I always think that the two beeps repeated back by the driver on units such a sprinters is a bit of an anachronism these days. It's like a carry over from steam days when the driver would sound the whistle to acknowledge the green flag.

I sometimes wonder if it's to tell the guard "Yes, it's me driving, I havn't been kidnapped and the train isn't being driven by aliens who don't know the code"!

Nothing to do with steam and the green flag, it is letting the driver know station duties are complete and the train is ready to start. Many times I have heard the doors close and the brakes release and no 2 on the buzzer then the guard re-releases the doors.

 

[First class]

That's actually quite concerning in a way...

It's the correct procedure, and is a very good idea.

The signal is towards Manchester and is about 1/2 a mile away from the platform. To ensure the driver realises that it is a red signal, you give 6 so he only draws up, instead of continuing along the line at line speed.

If you wait at the station until it clears, you can be 2-3 minutes late, instead of the driver being able to move straight off from the signal once the signal clears.

As it's not a starting signal IN ANY WAY, the guard can give 2, and the driver buzz 2 back, but 6 is a helpful reminder to the driver.

Usually happens on ATW services.

 

[A-driver]

That's actually quite concerning in a way...

No it isn't. Think you have misunderstood the reasoning for it as if you read exactly what is said then there is nothing at all concerning about it...

 

[fairysdad]

If you wait and depart from the station late NR will fine the TOC

Yet the train will be waiting for exactly the same time a couple hundred yards down the same track. Gotta love the bureaucracy!

(Okay, that makes sense, but it still seems a little odd!)