Great Western Electrification Progress

[Class 170101]

Today, it's easy to blame DfT but as I understand it NR cannot establish unit electrification costs with ORR, who will not release the CP5 cash which has been budgeted.
If you are the paymaster, you are entitled to call the tune.
Failure to start TP electrification doesn't sound like a DfT problem to me.
NR has yet to come up with an acceptable design/cost.

But how easy is it to come up with a cost that will satisfy the ORR / DfT? I can't exactly imagine either organisation having any better an idea of wiring costs than NR particularly if either party keep moving the goalposts.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

But how easy is it to come up with a cost that will satisfy the ORR / DfT? I can't exactly imagine either organisation having any better an idea of wiring costs than NR particularly if either party keep moving the goalposts.

It's NR that suddenly decided they couldn't do 6tph with the intended TP infrastructure.
And cost overruns on current schemes are down to NR, undermining the business case for all the others.

 

[Bald Rick]

That I think is the big difference.
BR had the institutional resources and wherewithal to do something without waiting for the bureaucrats at the DfT to approve every last detail.
That must have saved years compared to the current way of doing things.

3 points

1) without naming names, BR had got the nod it was going to be approved long before it actually was. Bear in mind the formal authority back then came much later in the process rather than Government 'announcements' are today.

2) the originally submitted authority was electrification to Leeds / Newcastle only, which had a cast iron case. A separate submission was made later for Newcastle - Edinburgh, where the case wasn't so good, and the resubmission thus delayed the authority process by several months.

3) it was pretty clear that even if full ECML electrification was not approved, then it would to Peterborough based on commuter growth. St Neots / Sandy / Biggleswade had a shocking service compared to today.

 

[edwin_m]

It's NR that suddenly decided they couldn't do 6tph with the intended TP infrastructure.
And cost overruns on current schemes are down to NR, undermining the business case for all the others.

This probably means they're going to be sure they are squeaky clean on any future costings. Which means they will take longer to prepare and the final number will include more contingency.

 

[QueensCurve]

I think BR were more under the cosh than NR is, but possibly with fewer constraints on immediate low-budget spend.

BR were subject to the external finance limit under which they couldn't raise money for big schemes without authorisation from the DafT.

Network rail have hitherto been able to spend against projected increases in their Regulatory Asset Base. This is under threat now Network Rail has been Nationalised.

 

[WelshBluebird]

Out of curiosity, has anyone seen any detail of the plans for when work is being done to the west of Bath Spa station yet (considering we have the blockades east of Bath this summer)? Looking on the Network Rail site, it looks like there will be a lot of track lowering around the Oldfield Park area at least which is going to cause a fair bit of chaos with the amount of people who commute between Bath and Bristol!

 

[steverailer]

While we are on the subject, why are MEWPS almost invariably left fully extended when not in use despite the H&SE ( and they did confirm this to me in writing ) specifically saying that they should NOT be left extended?

Partially for keeping people off them, and partially for space saving. Track accesses are not the largest areas so it keeps the space they take up to a minimum

 

[450.emu]

Any plans to electrify the Greenford branch? :cry:

 

[swt_passenger]

Any plans to electrify the Greenford branch? :cry:

Nothing in the near future.

 

[59CosG95]

Portals up near Maidenhead!! https://twitter.com/noeldolphin/status/602943716047880195

 

[hassaanhc]

IEP project is upgrading Paddington to Heathrow Junction, as it was only designed for HEx/Connect speeds and power draw.

Not at all sure about that really. There are significant sections of four track (or more) gantries being installed though, e.g. in the vicinity of the Acton dive under.

Here's hoping...

Most of the section between Acton Main Line and the District Line bridge over the GWML has had headspans replaced with gantries, and only a few of the headspan posts remain (although pretty much all of the concrete bases are still there, wouldn't be surprised if they remain).

The new feeder station or whatever it is next to the gas works in the Ladbroke Grove area also seems to be coming along nicely. Where are the current neutral sections? I've not come across a section between Southall and Paddington where the air conditioning goes off briefly, something that denotes having reached a neutral section on the 350 and 360/1 Desiros.

 

[fgwrich]

Work seems to be steadily progressing at last around the Reading area as Electrification works saw the MPVs out in force between Reading and Swindon over the weekend. Noticed the canopy at Didcot has rather crudely been cut into as well, but more interesting to see was - a few years early and before most of the works start on our branch, was the first signs of work on the Basingstoke Branch already with several piles already now placed into the ground running south from Southcote towards Green Park & the former landfill site, and the first bridge replaced with a new concrete one (near the future site of Green Park).

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Work seems to be steadily progressing at last around the Reading area as Electrification works saw the MPVs out in force between Reading and Swindon over the weekend. Noticed the canopy at Didcot has rather crudely been cut into as well, but more interesting to see was - a few years early and before most of the works start on our branch, was the first signs of work on the Basingstoke Branch already with several piles already now placed into the ground running south from Southcote towards Green Park & the former landfill site, and the first bridge replaced with a new concrete one (near the future site of Green Park).

Might be to complete an electrical section perhaps?
Is there much progress visible west of Didcot?
I rarely get to travel over that stretch.

 

[swtandgw]

I've not come across a section between Southall and Paddington where the air conditioning goes off briefly, something that denotes having reached a neutral section on the 350 and 360/1 Desiros.

I've not noticed one either, even though I've once sat in the PTOSL of one of the Desiros on the route, where there'd usually be an audible thump from the VCB. I guess it's mostly the Electrostars that have the loudest VCBs, and the GWML will be getting some, along with the Aventras of Crossrail once the westernmost section comes live.

 

[jimm]

Might be to complete an electrical section perhaps?
Is there much progress visible west of Didcot?
I rarely get to travel over that stretch.

Piling work is certainly going on between Didcot and Swindon but I'm not aware of any metalwork out of the ground just yet.

 

[swt_passenger]

Where are the current neutral sections? I've not come across a section between Southall and Paddington where the air conditioning goes off briefly, something that denotes having reached a neutral section on the 350 and 360/1 Desiros.

Unless I've missed another site, the online sectional appendix (public version updated Jan 2015) supports your observations and only shows neutral section symbols in the three lines branching from the GWML at Stockley Jn, at 11m 56/67/71ch.

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/browse documents/sectional appendix/western sectional appendix.pdf

Page 136

 

[swtandgw]

Work seems to be steadily progressing at last around the Reading area as Electrification works saw the MPVs out in force between Reading and Swindon over the weekend. Noticed the canopy at Didcot has rather crudely been cut into as well, but more interesting to see was - a few years early and before most of the works start on our branch, was the first signs of work on the Basingstoke Branch already with several piles already now placed into the ground running south from Southcote towards Green Park & the former landfill site, and the first bridge replaced with a new concrete one (near the future site of Green Park).

Good to see that there is progress on what was otherwise going to be an Electric Spine electrification. Speaking of which, I wonder if the wires will terminate only on the Reading platform of Basingstoke, or will they be extended towards the ends of Platform 3-4?

 

[swt_passenger]

Speaking of which, I wonder if the wires will terminate only on the Reading platform of Basingstoke, or will they be extended towards the ends of Platform 3-4?

Nothing has been said yet publicly.

My view is that they won't put OHLE into the through platforms initially, the extra hardware required would be complex, and would only become necessary if plans are firmed up for much longer trains, such as the proposed through service to Paddington.

There are also various proposals about for an additional through platform on the up side, and various layout changes to benefit long distance freight, so it would make sense to wait until that is fully decided - and then design the wiring additions to suit?

 

[76020]

I have just come back from a return journey from London to Swindon, I only saw the up/northside on both legs though.
Airport Junction to Reading:-About 30-35% piling complete, either side of Burnham there about 20 masts installed with about half of them have cross sections fitted.
Reading area to Tilehurst:-Very little change from when I last travelled on the section at the end of last year as regards electrification, a few piles installed opposite the train depot have been installed though.
Tilehurst to Didcot:-I guess that nearly all of the piling is complete and around 70% of the masts are up with about 35-40% of the cross sections fitted.
Didcot to Swindon:-Around 30-35% pilling complete, nearly all of this is between Didcot to just after where the line goes back two tracks.
No support arms have been fitted anywhere yet apart from the Reading train depot which has been half wired for quiet a time now and just east of Swindon on the up side two sidings have been fully wired, I think this is for training purposes or something along those lines.
There is a new feeder station which is well under way just west of Didcot station.
I believe that the piling target each night is 18 and recently Amey have started to hit the target, so it says here:-
http://www.railtechnologymagazine.c...at-western-electrification-is-behind-schedule

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I have just come back from a return journey from London to Swindon, I only saw the up/northside on both legs though.
Airport Junction to Reading:-About 30-35% piling complete, either side of Burnham there about 20 masts installed with about half of them have cross sections fitted.
Reading area to Tilehurst:-Very little change from when I last travelled on the section at the end of last year as regards electrification, a few piles installed opposite the train depot have been installed though.
Tilehurst to Didcot:-I guess that nearly all of the piling is complete and around 70% of the masts are up with about 35-40% of the cross sections fitted.
Didcot to Swindon:-Around 30-35% pilling complete, nearly all of this is between Didcot to just after where the line goes back two tracks.
No support arms have been fitted anywhere yet apart from the Reading train depot which has been half wired for quiet a time now and just east of Swindon on the up side two sidings have been fully wired, I think this is for training purposes or something along those lines.
There is a new feeder station which is well under way just west of Didcot station.
I believe that the piling target each night is 18 and recently Amey have started to hit the target, so it says here:-
http://www.railtechnologymagazine.c...at-western-electrification-is-behind-schedule

Very useful update. Doesn't sound great east of Reading, though.
How would you rate the Maidenhead-Twyford stretch?
There seemed a long piling gap in the middle of this 2 months ago.

 

[76020]

Very useful update. Doesn't sound great east of Reading, though.
How would you rate the Maidenhead-Twyford stretch?
There seemed a long piling gap in the middle of this 2 months ago.

East of Reading there are still some big gaps, I think this includes Maidenhead-Twyford, but with the train going at 125 mph it is a bit hard to take in! I am going to Bristol and Cardiff in the next few months so I will keep a look out.
I did notice that the most eastern pile is not far short of Airport Junction but piling is very patchy up to Reading from London.
Give it another six months and we might see some wiring between Didcot and Tilehurst if we are lucky! but there are no signs of any storage of wiring or support arms in the electrification depot near Didcot at the moment though.

On another route, I went though Abbey Wood a few weeks back and there is some piling and OHLE masts already installed where Crossrail emerges from its tunnel, do you know who is doing this?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

East of Reading there are still some big gaps, I think this includes Maidenhead-Twyford, but with the train going at 125 mph it is a bit hard to take in! I am going to Bristol and Cardiff in the next few months so I will keep a look out.
I did notice that the most eastern pile is not far short of Airport Junction but piling is very patchy up to Reading from London.
Give it another six months and we might see some wiring between Didcot and Tilehurst if we are lucky! but there are no signs of any storage of wiring or support arms in the electrification depot near Didcot at the moment though.

On another route, I went though Abbey Wood a few weeks back and there is some piling and OHLE masts already installed where Crossrail emerges from its tunnel, do you know who is doing this?

If it's Crossrail it will be Balfour Beatty out as far as Maidenhead.
I found I had to use the Thames Valley stoppers to take in what was going on, but that's a bit difficult west of Didcot!

 

[RP]

Evidence of sleepers laid out at western end of Filton Triangle depot when I passed from Bristol towards Cardiff earlier this afternoon. Also, there were a few piles deposited alongside westbound track between Patchway Tunnel and Pilning, which looked like some I'd seen around Reading last autumn. Perhaps they're for another purpose?

 

[83G/84D]

Sorry if this is old news.....

The old Midland trainshed at Bristol Temple Meads will not be brought into use and lines electrified for the new IEP trains. It will be used for Stage 2 of the Bristol Metro scheme.

 

[swt_passenger]

Sorry if this is old news.....

The old Midland trainshed at Bristol Temple Meads will not be brought into use and lines electrified for the new IEP trains. It will be used for Stage 2 of the Bristol Metro scheme.

I wonder if too much was being read into the original proposals - did 'reopening the old shed to provide capacity for IEP' ever guarantee the trains would actually use it?

(Although I've now checked and the last version of the CP5 enhancement plan (Mar 2015) was fairly explicit that there would be 260m platforms for IEP in the Midland shed.)

By putting local services in the extra platforms, and using more existing platforms for IEP services, doesn't it make operations simpler all round, because the trains will be on the correct side of the future four track layout towards Filton and Bristol Parkway? I think people have doubted the plan for crossing trains in the state approaches in previous discussions. Also, the benefit for passengers with this new solution will be that all London trains would go from the same part of the station, whether via Bath or Parkway.

 

[Stompehh]

Sorry if this is old news.....

The old Midland trainshed at Bristol Temple Meads will not be brought into use and lines electrified for the new IEP trains. It will be used for Stage 2 of the Bristol Metro scheme.

What's the source for this info please?

 

[HowardGWR]

The whole idea of the (erstwhile?) existing plan to use the old station is the plan to site the coach /bus / interchange alongside on the existing car park. Sadly, the metro bus will not stop anywhere near the station anyway, as things stand. -

The arrivals and departures to / from London via Badminton would be conveniently on the right side of the station for the East junction and Dr Days.

Yes, what source for this change of mind (or might it be a temporary plan)?

 

[83G/84D]

What's the source for this info please?

I am not able to say where the information came from however it is correct and has been the case for some time now. The plans to run IEP's into the trainshed were dropped last year.

 

[tpm]

The plans to run IEP's into the trainshed were dropped last year.

Do you happen to know what the rationale was for this? Cost reduction? Maintaining the parts of the building currently in use for other purposes (shorter trains presumably need shorter platforms)? Minimise distance between local services to facilitate inter-modal exchange (MetroBus and MetroWest)? Something else? When might the public get to see a draft masterplan?

 

[Stompehh]

Do you happen to know what the rationale was for this? Cost reduction? Maintaining the parts of the building currently in use for other purposes (shorter trains presumably need shorter platforms)? Minimise distance between local services to facilitate inter-modal exchange (MetroBus and MetroWest)? Something else? When might the public get to see a draft masterplan?

The masterplan is overdue - the NR western route specification for this year (published in April) still says "The draft masterplan identified a number of options to transform the station area – further development is ongoing, with completion of the study expected spring 2014."

Also welcome to this forum, assuming you're the same tpm from SSC!