Trivia: Most confusing Station?

[causton]

Yes, but........ and I know that this is a silly question. If you were between the two, and without means to pay, what would happen (assuming all staff applied rules applicable to the admission of passengers to the 'paid area' correctly)? I don't doubt that my mortal remains would not be left to the cleaners, but are there special rules in place or is it left to 'common sense'? It is a small point but I've always wondered. I'm not even sure whether I'd belong, as a problem, to TfL or SE.

IIRC there is a ticket machine between the two.

In any case, I bought a paper single to Southwark once (I did have a Travelcard) to find out!
Turns out the SE staff turn you back round, will not let you through to get to Waterloo ticket office or other facilities, tell you to ask the TfL gateline supervisor to retreive your ticket from the barrier to send you to the street entrance! Hahaha!

 

[TheNewNo2]

I remember the first time I went to Stratford about 10 or so years ago. The signage then was so bad I stood and cried because I couldn't figure out what platform I needed for Chelmsford and there was no-one around to ask.

My boss says there is an alternative at Bank to cut out the Central Line platforms and it requires taking a tunnel that is otherwise unmarked. I think I'll ask him again and then take my GoPro at some point to figure this out.

To get between DLR and Northern line is pretty easy - there's a flight of stairs by the eastern end of the DLR departure platform, and that leads up into the gap between Northern Line platforms.

To exit from NL/DLR while avoiding Central line, go up one level from the NL platforms, and where there's a sign to the W&C on the left, turn right and go up the escalators there.

Or just exit via Monument.

 

[edwin_m]

I just googled this. I've never been there, but there's 750m between the lines. That's quite a trek, especially if you're carrying stuff or you're elderly/disabled.

Tell me about it. Walked that distance underground, emerged and, after eventually working out where we were and needed to be, walked the same distance back on the surface to reach our hotel. It was almost directly above the RER platform where we'd alighted from the train 20min previously.

 

[AM9]

Tell me about it. Walked that distance underground, emerged and, after eventually working out where we were and needed to be, walked the same distance back on the surface to reach our hotel. It was almost directly above the RER platform where we'd alighted from the train 20min previously.

Ligne 14 which roughly goes N-S has twp separate stations, Les Halles followed by Chatelet. If Crossrail; 2 ever gets built, could there be a station that has entrances at both EUS and KGX/STP, much the same way as Crossrail (1) Liverpool St/Moorgate and Bond Street/Oxford circus nearly do?
As an aside, if EUS and KGX/STP were connected so it would be easy to incorporate a travelator or even a shuttle through the station.

 

[edwin_m]

Ligne 14 which roughly goes N-S has twp separate stations, Les Halles followed by Chatelet. If Crossrail; 2 ever gets built, could there be a station that has entrances at both EUS and KGX/STP, much the same way as Crossrail (1) Liverpool St/Moorgate and Bond Street/Oxford circus nearly do?
As an aside, if EUS and KGX/STP were connected so it would be easy to incorporate a travelator or even a shuttle through the station.

I think you may be thinking of line 4.

A joint Euston-KX-SP station is was certainly proposed for Crossrail 2 last time I looked. I also hope it would be possible to provide an underground moving walkway link on the unpaid side of the barriers.

Crossrail 1 will definitely have a combined Liverpool Street and Moorgate station and also a combined Farringdon and Barbican. These stations need exits both ends for safety reasons, and the Crossrail platforms are long enough that linking each ends with a different Underground stations isn't much extra work and is probably less confusing than creating a totally new surface access.

 

[CC 72100]

Yes, line 4 has two separate stops, you are correct. Worked that out pretty quick after getting off at the wrong one for my onward RER first time round.

 

[wellwhatitis]

Smethwick Galton Bridge.

Looks simple. Can be confusing in reality.

From the entrance to platform 4 you have to cross a bridge, go down some stairs or a lift, walk along platform 2, and go down some more stairs or a lift.

To get from platform 4 to platform 1, you have to use three seperate sets of stairs. It's unlikely that many people would do this however if you were coming from the Snow Hill direction changing onto a New Street train.

Platform 2 has three seperate staircases and two lifts, and they all look the same, so you really have to look out for the signs.

This diagram is a little simplified:

from http://www.dudleymall.co.uk/loclrail/birmwolv.htm

I work through this station everyday, only once have I tried to negotiate it as a passenger and I ashamedly got into a right mess!

It certainly explains why the second my finger has hit the close doors button, bodies will just appear on the platform and do multiple 360's complete with flailing arms. If you want to see completely disorientated humans this is the place to be.

 

[sd0733]

Crewe seems to confuse a lot of people. with 1+5 and 6+11 being next door to each other and some of the bays quite well hidden a lot of infrequent travellers get confused. Also with 2 bridges and one of those not going to the exit throws some.

 

[Darren R]

Willesden Junction gets my vote. The only station I ever got lost at, whilst trying to interchange from the low-level to the high-level platforms. I ended up leaving the station altogether trying to find my way upstairs - only to get lost again outside the station. Willesden is not an area you want to find yourself lost!

Just to be contrary, I have to say I think Stratford is fairly easy to use! Admittedly the platform numbering system is, err, quirky, but there is plenty of signage and information. Likewise I always find Bank/Monument stations to be easy to navigate. (Mind you, I most often arrive on the Central Line and want the District. It's simple enough - you just carry on walking until your legs start to ache! )

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I think you may be thinking of line 4.

A joint Euston-KX-SP station is was certainly proposed for Crossrail 2 last time I looked. I also hope it would be possible to provide an underground moving walkway link on the unpaid side of the barriers.

Crossrail 1 will definitely have a combined Liverpool Street and Moorgate station and also a combined Farringdon and Barbican. These stations need exits both ends for safety reasons, and the Crossrail platforms are long enough that linking each ends with a different Underground stations isn't much extra work and is probably less confusing than creating a totally new surface access.

The 'joint' stations on Crossrail will confuse many if the signage isn't adequate. Hopefully It'll have been well planned...

 

[Mojo]

Their journey planner has a bias towards their services, even when they take 10-15 minutes longer and require more changes.

I've had plenty of odd results from the Journey planner, and it frequently seems very pessimistic about journey times and often doesn't suggest routes that I'd perhaps like to take, but I can't say I've noticed this, ever. Certainly as an automated process it sounds as if you are implying some sort of bias is programmed against NR services. Annoyingly I often find the opposite where it suggests train services when I don't want to use them, and I have to go into the advanced settings to deselect National Rail. Do you have an example?

And see how hard it is to get the full "London's Rail & Tube services" map in leaflet form at any station. I only found it by chance at Liverpool Street mainline. No shortage of the "Tube map" (basically the TfL-only map :roll anywhere.

Isn't this an Atoc publication? I have a copy here in front of me and it seems to suggest that. It is posted on the wall at pretty much every station though. How many people actually want this map? It isn't even available to order for LU stations.

I agree with Stratford. I know Stratford very well, however I've never seen a station which only show the destination station on the departure boards in the ticket halls. If you're going Witham or Diss and have no idea what train goes there you'd be lost. If you're going to an LO station they show all the stations on the signs outside the platforms but they haven't done that for the AGA ones. It is just ridiculous. TfL either don't understand or choose not to understand how to provide information for "proper" rail services and as a result it is far more confusing than it should be. I do wonder if Network Rail or even AGA managed the station would there be better/clearer information? .

Is it not something for the Toc to provide these departure boards? The departure boards for services that operate over Network Rail metals seem to be the common standard for those provided at such stations, rather than a LUL style departure board. Certainly I am not sure whether LUL could even access the system that would power them.

One thing however I would say, is that I wonder if there is much confusion regarding London Overground (and now TfL Rail) services appearing on these boards; as people might expect them to be more like Tube services? Never been an issue for me, but it was something I was just thinking about.

Furthermore the main entrance is now inadequate for the high usage.

I find the bus station entrance to be quite adequate now that the there is an "in" gateline and an "out" gateline. I've not been though since the ticket office has been closed and replaced by additional Passenger Operated Machines, but hopefully this should mean there are less people loitering around in the entrance area waiting to use the machines.

 

[40907]

Birmingham New Street gets my vote. I appreciate that much reconstruction work is under way, but each time I transit there, the concourse layout/platform access appears to change. Last time I changed trains there a couple of weeks ago I actually got disorientated and started to disbelieve the signs. Most strange. Fortunately the staff are on the ball. Roll on September and completion of the work.
Hopefully not too many lost passengers will end up on the escalator into the new John Lewis store.

 

[AM9]

Birmingham New Street gets my vote. I appreciate that much reconstruction work is under way, but each time I transit there, the concourse layout/platform access appears to change. Last time I changed trains there a couple of weeks ago I actually got disorientated and started to disbelieve the signs. Most strange. Fortunately the staff are on the ball. Roll on September and completion of the work.
Hopefully not too many lost passengers will end up on the escalator into the new John Lewis store.

In principle I think New St is OK, it's just getting used to the multiple zones on each physical platform.
Slightly OT, New St would get my vote for the most polluted station. It's almost suffocating with a couple of Voyagers, an HST and a sprinkling of Sprinters just sitting there pumping out particulates and Nox fumes. I wouldn't be surprised if the platform area exceeded legal limits much of the time.

 

[40907]

Indeed, I think down on the platforms is the worst part of New Street. Most of the platform lengths are in effect "underground", the lighting is not brilliant, and I find the whole experience quite unwelcoming.

 

[306024]

Changed at New Street recently. Despite the building work it wasn't too bad except for the announcements on platform 1 which were rather loud, yet difficult to understand when a competing announcement was made on platform 2.

Can see why Stratford gets a few votes, once you've mastered which subways lead where it is OK, but for the first time user it can be intimidating as it is so busy.

Personal dislike is Bank, especially using the deep DLR platforms.

And to throw in a couple of international examples, Dresden Hbf is an interesting station to get to grips with, as is Poznan, where the rebuilding has changed the whole way the station is used.

 

[DasLunatic]

I personally find most London stations OK: the only one I've had problems with is Waterloo East. The entrance is nestled on some back alley and up ninety or so stairs... not fun with a massive suitcase!

 

[EbbwJunction1]

I personally find most London stations OK: the only one I've had problems with is Waterloo East. The entrance is nestled on some back alley and up ninety or so stairs... not fun with a massive suitcase!

I know it's a long drag, especially with a case, but I always go into the station via Waterloo Main Line and across the foot bridge that crosses Waterloo Road. There's a lift and escalators so you don't have to go up or down lots of stairs.

 

[TheNewNo2]

In principle I think New St is OK, it's just getting used to the multiple zones on each physical platform.

I never had a problem with the zones on a platform, it was just the concourse which always got be turned about.

 

[D6975]

Don't forget platform 0 at Cardiff Central.
It is signposted, but the route to it involves exiting the main part of the station and going through the ticket barriers, most normals can't believe that the signs are correct.

 

[ichabod05]

Willesden is not an area you want to find yourself lost!

As a former Willesdenite, I must jump to its defence - Willesden Junction is actually in the far less salubrious Harlesden, which is not, you are right, a place in which one would wish to find oneself lost.

Willesden is - or at least, was - a fair bit nicer!

BTW, have had the same issue at Willesden junction. Not as straightforward as it Seems!

 

[AM9]

As a former Willesdenite, I must jump to its defence - Willesden Junction is actually in the far less salubrious Harlesden, which is not, you are right, a place in which one would wish to find oneself lost.

Willesden is - or at least, was - a fair bit nicer!

BTW, have had the same issue at Willesden junction. Not as straightforward as it Seems!

Given that OOC looks likely to be the 'Stratford' of West London in terms of being a transport hub, that embodies the GWML, Crossrail, HS2, NLL; would it also engulf Willesden Junction Overground station and even create a new WCML connection. What an opportunity for confusion that presents.

 

[wheelnrail]

Willesden is not an area you want to find yourself lost!

Nah mate, that honor goes to Southall.

As for confusing stations Stratford is clear and away the worst. I frequently pass through Stratford either on the central line or on a AGA service an I almost always have to pause to check where the train I want is at which platform. It doesn't help knowing the platforms are subgrouped by letters, theres 2 separate level dlr stations and 2 separate underground stations. This was rebuilt about a decade ago correct? If so it wasn't very user friendly.

 

[theageofthetra]

For a relatively small station Barnes confuses me. Multiple entrances, offset platforms and poor signage if approaching from the south as to which entrance to use. Trains also seem to depart from different platforms/entrances depending on the day of the week. Lots of very confused passengers the other week after the Wimbledon qualifying at Bank of England sports club nearby.

 

[Taunton]

Definitely agree that the [Canning Town] signage is not the best, especially when trying to find the lifts.

Stratford may be confusingly numbered, but because I understand the layout it's never been a problem for me.

Canning Town, however, does confound me even though I also understand the layout, because DLR trains for the two eastern branches, to Excel or to Woolwich, leave from two widely separated platforms, and the indications of where the next one will leave from could not have been more stupidly arranged if they had tried. Most DLR passengers seem to arrive by Jubilee Line, which is somewhat in the middle between the two, but there is no indication of which way to go for the next one. There are DLR departure screens tucked into corners of the roof of the Jubilee platform, nowhere convenient, which just use platform numbers, and if there's one thing about the place it's not at all apparent what the platform numbering is, I doubt any regular users could tell you. All DLR departures for all directions on one little screen, so Woolwich in 2 minutes from platform 1 and, down at the bottom of the screen, in 7 minutes from platform 3. Which is where ? By the time you have worked out where 1 is, and negotiated two sets of stairs and some dark passages to get to it, the train is just leaving. Most people just go up to the upper level and wait for the next one from up there (which is platform 3, by the way).

There are big and splendid departure indicators up on the upper level DLR platform which have many puzzled people, especially foreign tourists, looking quizzically at them, given that they are actually the departure screens of plane flights from London City Airport. It's like putting the Heathrow departure indicator on the platform at Acton Town.

 

[hassaanhc]

I've had plenty of odd results from the Journey planner, and it frequently seems very pessimistic about journey times and often doesn't suggest routes that I'd perhaps like to take, but I can't say I've noticed this, ever. Certainly as an automated process it sounds as if you are implying some sort of bias is programmed against NR services. Annoyingly I often find the opposite where it suggests train services when I don't want to use them, and I have to go into the advanced settings to deselect National Rail. Do you have an example?

Taking a closer look, it seems it is a combination of junk timings (for buses), following Minimum Connection Time (e.g. 10 minutes at Clapham Junction, which is fair enough), and different legs not connecting well .

The journey was from my local stop in Norwood Green (bus Route 120) to the Epsom Coaches garage, bus stop "Roy Richmond Way" on the 418 route from Kingston (or between Ewell West and Epsom stations). This was on a Saturday leaving around 1030, with timetable alterations meaning a reduction of 2tph at both Ewell West and Epsom (the SWT services to Dorking).

The route I would take is Route 120 to Hounslow (Treaty Centre), walk to Hounslow Station, SWT to Kingston (changing at Twickenham), then Route 418. However, SWT via Clapham Junction to Epsom is what I expected to be shown. Both taking between 1 hour 45 minutes and 2 hours.

The default fastest route given took 2 hours 21 minutes that day, and used Route 120 to Hounslow Central (23 minutes when the timetable gives 10 minutes), Piccadilly Line to Earl's Court, District Line to Wimbledon, SWT to Epsom, then managing to miss the 3bph 418 (which today's result doesn't, hence why today it saves 20 minutes). No warning that Oyster/Contactless cannot be used at Epsom.

Changing it to go via "Hounslow Rail Station" and "fewest changes" took 2 hours 11 minutes, involving Route 120 to Hounslow Bus Station (32 minutes when the timetable gives 19 minutes), walk to Hounslow Station, SWT to Clapham Junction, Southern to Epsom, then Route 418. Again no warning that Oyster/Contactless cannot be used at Epsom. However, it told me to get off the 120 half a mile further down the road than I needed to, only to walk that distance back :roll:. The 120 to Treaty Centre, takes 15 minutes according to the timetable, then a 7 minute walk, therefore the results gave an unnecessary 30 minute penalty there.

Isn't this an Atoc publication? I have a copy here in front of me and it seems to suggest that. It is posted on the wall at pretty much every station though. How many people actually want this map? It isn't even available to order for LU stations.

Ah, looks like you are right there. I reckon take-up of this map could be decent if it was available at LUL stations.

 

[jopsuk]

Stratford may be confusingly numbered, but because I understand the layout it's never been a problem for me.

Canning Town, however, does confound me even though I also understand the layout, because DLR trains for the two eastern branches, to Excel or to Woolwich, leave from two widely separated platforms, and the indications of where the next one will leave from could not have been more stupidly arranged if they had tried. Most DLR passengers seem to arrive by Jubilee Line, which is somewhat in the middle between the two, but there is no indication of which way to go for the next one. There are DLR departure screens tucked into corners of the roof of the Jubilee platform, nowhere convenient, which just use platform numbers, and if there's one thing about the place it's not at all apparent what the platform numbering is, I doubt any regular users could tell you. All DLR departures for all directions on one little screen, so Woolwich in 2 minutes from platform 1 and, down at the bottom of the screen, in 7 minutes from platform 3. Which is where ? By the time you have worked out where 1 is, and negotiated two sets of stairs and some dark passages to get to it, the train is just leaving. Most people just go up to the upper level and wait for the next one from up there (which is platform 3, by the way).

it would be quite expensive, but if the down track from Poplar was brought into platform 2, and platform 3 instead connected towards Stratford, it would remove all confusion. All eastbound trains would now be from the lower island platform.

There are big and splendid departure indicators up on the upper level DLR platform which have many puzzled people, especially foreign tourists, looking quizzically at them, given that they are actually the departure screens of plane flights from London City Airport. It's like putting the Heathrow departure indicator on the platform at Acton Town.

There's Stansted departure screens at Cambridge. Even with the direct XC and GA services to the airport, I'm not sure what the point is. They don't show gate info- most of the time they just show that a flight is "scheduled". Even if it did show a delay, the best course of action in 99% if cases, having already been through the ticket barriers at Cambridge, is to get to the airport anyway.

 

[transmanche]

There's Stansted departure screens at Cambridge. Even with the direct XC and GA services to the airport, I'm not sure what the point is. They don't show gate info- most of the time they just show that a flight is "scheduled". Even if it did show a delay, the best course of action in 99% if cases, having already been through the ticket barriers at Cambridge, is to get to the airport anyway.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if the real reason for it being there is to advertise the airport; subliminally letting passengers know about the variety of destinations that can be reached from Stansted Airport...

 

[chris_in_salop]

I've certainly got confused changing at Smethwick Galton Bridge, from the Birmingham-bound low level line to the Kidderminster-bound high level line. Reminds me a bit of trying to navigate through the old Marble Arch subways or the Milton Keynes Redways, where you emerge above ground somewhere that you hadn't expected.

Now it's not the worst example in the country at all - but the gateline staff at Shrewsbury must get very bored in giving directions to Platform 3.

 

[fairliered]

Waverley is awful, especially if you have mobility difficulties or are heading for the taxi rank.
Whenever possible, I use Haymarket instead.

 

[iain-j]

Waverley is awful, especially if you have mobility difficulties or are heading for the taxi rank.
Whenever possible, I use Haymarket instead.

I was thinking that myself. Platform 1 is a good example, if you're entering the station from Calton Road you have to go up one set of stairs from street level, Cross the bridge over platforms 1 and 2 then go down more stairs, walk along platform 2/19, up another set of stairs, over the tracks you crossed over earlier and down another set of stairs to get to the platform you crossed over in the first place.

I get that when they built the new platform 1/20 the ticket barriers are directly above at the Waverley Steps entrance but did nobody think about putting stairs down to platform 1 from the Calton Road entrance. These set of steps would only need to have a ticket barrier (or 2) and maybe a Ticket machine at the top of the steps to deter potential fare dodgers but would save the long trek that could easily be avoided.
I've also read that they would like to make this entrance a set down point for taxis as well.
Also why is their no ticket machines in the east end of the station. if your heading for a North Berwick/Newcraighall (Soon to be Borders Railway) service and have entered the station by Calton Road you have to go to the west side concourse to get a ticket. I know at the busier times of the day they have staff vending tickets but it would be helpful at other times of the day as well.