Class 68 Progress, what's the latest?

[Sunbird24]

i have pulled out of york on a 185 on a few occasions alongside a crosscountry 220, with first gear the two units were side by side, soon as second gear kicked in at 40mph the 185 gives it legs and leaves the voyager for dust. The voyager caught up eventually by colton junction but by that point the higher top end speed of the voyager was giving it the edge over the 185.

Been looking at the wheel diameters of the 185 and 220/1, they are very different, the latter being 780mm max against 1250mm max for the 185. So when the 185 changes gear the bigger wheels will give a lot more speed but it is limited by its lower top speed. There are so many factors to take into consideration, the number of horses may be equal but some have much longer legs than others and the weights can be very different also.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I also find it interesting that a class 68 with 7 coaches can accelerate as well as a 6 car 172 DMU unit despite being heavier and having a less powerful engine. This shows the superiority of an electric transmission system over the torque converter system which much be losing a lot of engine power in torque converter losses and none optimal engine operating conditions!

A class 68 has a 3,800 HP engine, of which 3,200 is available for the 4 x 800 HP traction motors (4 x 600 kW). (Rounded figures for HP).
A 6-car class 172 has 6 x 485 HP engines (6 x 362 kW), 2,910 HP total.
Where do you get the less powerful engine in a class 68 from?.

The class 172 does have much smaller wheels at 780mm diameter against the class 68 at 1,100mm diameter.

 

[Peter Sarf]

I also find it interesting that a class 68 with 7 coaches can accelerate as well as a 6 car 172 DMU unit despite being heavier and having a less powerful engine. This shows the superiority of an electric transmission system over the torque converter system which much be losing a lot of engine power in torque converter losses and none optimal engine operating conditions!

Scratches head - as I think a 172 does NOT have a torque converter. I think the 170s, 168s and 171s do have a torque converter but the 172s have a more (fuel ?) efficient mechanical gearbox. But I am not sure ?.

From what I have seen of 68s they have some damn good get up and go. I can only imagine the effect on the fuel tank though !.

 

[FordFocus]

172s have a semi-automatic gearbox similar to a bus and not a torque converter with final drive like conventional DMUs such as 15x and 170s.

Has it's advantages of been better accelerating at lower speeds but are unable to coast due to the gearbox been permanently engaged until lower speeds so you have to rev the engine a wee bit to keep line speed.

 

[ARoo21]

68 015 back to Chiltern.
68 010 gone to Crewe.

The wait for 68 009 first appearance at Chiltern goes on...

Meanwhile 68 015 should be on the Banbury set from 22/6 - 26/6.

 

[saracen43]

Am i right in thinking that there are a lot more loco hauled sets now, and could someone possibly post the diagrams for these, thanks.

 

[Sunbird24]

Am i right in thinking that there are a lot more loco hauled sets now, and could someone possibly post the diagrams for these, thanks.

Does this help?
http://www.railforums.co.uk/showpost.php?p=1478545&postcount=4
Index here: http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=84997

 

[saracen43]

Does this help?
http://www.railforums.co.uk/showpost.php?p=1478545&postcount=4
Index here: http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=84997

Thanks for that.

 

[ARoo21]

68 009 down to Chiltern land with 68 010.
68 012 went North to Crewe.
68 008 went from Wembley - Willesden Brent DRS yesterday.

 

[G_A_C_C_C]

68 009 down to chiltern land with 68 010.
:d

get in there!!!

 

[168lover]

Anyone know if any 68s are working the Paddington diversions this Sunday and if so the diagrams that they are working?

 

[Cherry_Picker]

Haven't seen any diagrams but I'd be extremely surprised if a 68 found it's way to Paddington. I'm not even sure if they are route cleared but train crew is the biggest obstacle. Only Aylesbury drivers sign Ruislip - Paddington at Chiltern, but Aylesbury drivers don't sign class 68s.
I don't think Aylesbury guards (there are a few!) sign Mk3 coaching stock either, and they are the only guards who sign Paddington.

 

[Sunbird24]

Seems to me the railway system in UK might have gone downhill it terms of route availability, back to the days of the early railways. What happened to the simple system of grading all routes and all stock (used to be RA1 thru RA9, now RA10 has been added) such that anything graded RA6 could run on any route from 6-9 thus making diversions much less problematic. The class 68 is classified RA7 while the class 67 is RA8, so unless there are any loading gauge restrictions on the diversionary route there should be no problem there.
As for staff, there was a system of "pilot man" provided for crews not familiar with any particular route. I have not heard of guards requiring a "pilot man" during diversions.

Now it seems from what I read above and elsewhere that every piece of stock and every member of the train crew needs to be passed on every section of track used away from the normal routes, probably at considerable extra expense, to meet the needs of all the various regulatory bodies. Is that the case, or can they still use pilot men between Aylesbury and Paddington?

 

[BantamMenace]

Seems to me the railway system in UK might have gone downhill it terms of route availability, back to the days of the early railways. What happened to the simple system of grading all routes and all stock (used to be RA1 thru RA9, now RA10 has been added) such that anything graded RA6 could run on any route from 6-9 thus making diversions much less problematic. The class 68 is classified RA7 while the class 67 is RA8, so unless there are any loading gauge restrictions on the diversionary route there should be no problem there.
As for staff, there was a system of "pilot man" provided for crews not familiar with any particular route. I have not heard of guards requiring a "pilot man" during diversions.

Now it seems from what I read above and elsewhere that every piece of stock and every member of the train crew needs to be passed on every section of track used away from the normal routes, probably at considerable extra expense, to meet the needs of all the various regulatory bodies. Is that the case, or can they still use pilot men between Aylesbury and Paddington?

I believe you can pilot anything that is physically allowed anywhere on the network.

However you may call for a return to 'when things were simpler' but all the necessary knowledge, paperwork and regulations are part of what ensure we operate one of the world's safest railways.

 

[HSTEd]

And also one of the world's most expensive railways.

 

[ARoo21]

Observations yesterday on Wembley Lmd;
68 011 by itself after being part of the convoy down to Willesden Brent & working alone to Lmd.
68 008 coupled to the Banbury set (blue and white coaches.)
68 009 coupled to silver MK3 set.
------

68 013 worked up to Crewe while 68 014 remains at Crewe.
68 015 must have been at Stourbridge?

68 010 and 012 were on the diagrams yesterday.

 

[150219]

Observations yesterday on Wembley Lmd;
68 011 by itself after being part of the convoy down to Willesden Brent & working alone to Lmd.
68 008 coupled to the Banbury set (blue and white coaches.)
68 009 coupled to silver MK3 set.
------

68 013 worked up to Crewe while 68 014 remains at Crewe.
68 015 must have been at Stourbridge?

68 010 and 012 were on the diagrams yesterday.

68015 is indeed at Stourbridge.

 

[ARoo21]

68015 is indeed at Stourbridge.

Thanks

 

[Sunbird24]

It appears that another class 68 has put in an appearance in Valencia. The front end (actually rear end) was just visible parked next to Eurolight 284 001. I say "appears" because the class 88 will have the same body but no idea yet if there will be any visible external differences other than a pantograph.
I note from recent photographs that 68011 and 68012 are now running without handles below the windscreen corners. Are these being removed for a reason? The new one has them fitted already.

 

[Peter Sarf]

....
I note from recent photographs that 68011 and 68012 are now running without handles below the windscreen corners. Are these being removed for a reason? The new one has them fitted already.

Probably health and safety. If the handles are thought unnecessary then probably deemed better to avoid staff being able to climb across the front. More likely to stop idiots riding on the front or rear of the locos. There have been measures (such as flexible screens aiui) to stop people hanging on between the carriages I have heard.

I see it as natural selection. But it results in a lot of paperwork.

 

[Dampflok]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunbird24
....
I note from recent photographs that 68011 and 68012 are now running without handles below the windscreen corners. Are these being removed for a reason? The new one has them fitted already.

Probably health and safety. If the handles are thought unnecessary then probably deemed better to avoid staff being able to climb across the front. More likely to stop idiots riding on the front or rear of the locos. There have been measures (such as flexible screens aiui) to stop people hanging on between the carriages I have heard.

I see it as natural selection. But it results in a lot of paperwork.

68011 and 68012 both photographed today, 22nd July 2015, with handles below the windscreen as has 68015, also photted today. Earlier photos of 68015 show it without handles, so perhaps the handles are being fitted (or refitted) rather than removed...

Cheers, Geoff

 

[Cherry_Picker]

The handles are being modified. The way they were originally attached to the train with just one bolt wasn't strong enough as the bolt could be pulled through the composite when a load was put onto it. The new handle attaches with three bolts over a wider area which will spread the load and hopefully solve the issue.

The handles by the cab door are being modified too. They were originally a smooth metal finish and were very slippery when wet (a definite issue after going through the wash road at Wembley as the driver tends to get out of the cab fairly quickly after) so they have been etched by a laser with a criss cross pattern to increase grip.

 

[Sunbird24]

The handles are being modified. The way they were originally attached to the train with just one bolt wasn't strong enough as the bolt could be pulled through the composite when a load was put onto it. The new handle attaches with three bolts over a wider area which will spread the load and hopefully solve the issue.

The handles by the cab door are being modified too. They were originally a smooth metal finish and were very slippery when wet (a definite issue after going through the wash road at Wembley as the driver tends to get out of the cab fairly quickly after) so they have been etched by a laser with a criss cross pattern to increase grip.

Just checked the window handles on 68016? and they do indeed have 3 bolts at each end and not one. The old style looked neater and a neater fix would have been a penny washer on the inside which would probably be a lot stronger than 3 bolts as well as it spreads the load evenly. My question mark by 68016 is because I could not see any identification on it so assume it is possibly the first of the new batch to be completed to the point where it leaves the erecting shop. Still needs 2-3 months of testing and finishing touches.

 

[ARoo21]

Today's allocations:
D1 68012
D2 68015
D3 68011
D4 68009
D5 68008

Note 68 008 or 009 could head north on Saturday with 68 010 likely to come south ( believe 68 009 due an exam, so get it while it's in Chiltern land if you want it!)

 

[Chris125]

It seems DRS have ordered a further seven Class 68s: UK and Italian operators order Vossloh locomotives

British operator Direct Rail Services has ordered seven UK-profile Class 68 UKLight mixed-traffic diesel locomotives through Beacon Rail Leasing. This is DRS’s third order for the UKLight, with an initial 15 now in service and a second batch of 10 due to be delivered in the coming months.

 

[al.currie93]

It seems DRS have ordered a further seven Class 68s: UK and Italian operators order Vossloh locomotives

Very interesting... I think I know what this might be in anticipation of - though I dare not suggest it

That would make it over 30 of these in service by the end of this build - more than the class 67 - so they must be proving good locomotives!

 

[gimmea50anyday]

Very interesting... I think I know what this might be in anticipation of - though I dare not suggest it

Traction for TPE's 442's?.......

*runs for cover!*

That would make it over 30 of these in service by the end of this build - how many class 67s were built?

30!

 

[al.currie93]

Traction for TPE's 442's?.......

*runs for cover!*

You said it, not me

In all seriousness, they must be anticipating more work for them with this so it will be interesting to see where they end up.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Traction for TPE's 442's?.......

*runs for cover!*




30!

We'd better bet the straight-jacket out for you!

 

[ac6000cw]

Presumably these will be the first 68's to meet the Euro IIIb emissions regulations ?

 

[gimmea50anyday]

Presumably these will be the first 68's to meet the Euro IIIb emissions regulations ?

Thought they eased the regs due to there being no suitable engine in production?...

We'd better bet the straight-jacket out for you!

Management have been trying to do that for years!!!