Andy Burnham in pledge to renationalise railway network

[ainsworth74]

Just saw this on BBC News:

Andy Burnham pledges to renationalise railway network

Labour leadership contender Andy Burnham has promised to renationalise Britain's railways "line by line" if he becomes prime minister.

The shadow health secretary pledged to bring an "end to fragmentation and privatisation".

Left-wing candidate Jeremy Corbyn has already committed himself to returning the railways to public ownership.

Yvette Cooper and Liz Kendall are the other candidates hoping to replace Ed Miliband on 12 September.

British Rail was privatised under John Major's Conservative government.
Going into the general election Labour promised to review the current franchising system, under which the different rail routes are allocated on a competitive tender basis, and to allow public sector organisations to bid.

A YouGov survey in May 2014 suggested that the public supported renationalisation by a margin of 60% - 20%.

'New approach'

Mr Burnham recently called for "more public control and ownership of the railways".

His campaign manifesto will set out more detail, committing Labour to "a policy of progressive re-nationalisation of our railways". There would also be increased regulation of the bus network.

"We need a new approach to our railways, one that puts passengers before profit. That's why I will work to bring the railways back under public control and public ownership," he will say in his manifesto.

To me that sounds like his plan would be to simply bring them back into public ownership at the end of each franchise term rather than buying them out which is probably the only way of doing it without having to fork out billions to the owning groups.

Of course he has to a) win the leadership election b) get it into a General Election manifesto and c) win a General Election before this particular plan could ever see the light of day

 

[matt_world2004]

Just saw this on BBC News:



To me that sounds like his plan would be to simply bring them back into public ownership at the end of each franchise term rather than buying them out which is probably the only way of doing it without having to fork out billions to the owning groups.

Of course he has to a) win the leadership election b) get it into a General Election manifesto and c) win a General Election before this particular plan could ever see the light of day

Although if the opposition announce it, it might force the Conservative government to do the same.

 

[asylumxl]

This is the same promise Blair made in the 90s... Didn't happen.

 

[455driver]

Didn't Liebore promise this before they got onto Government last time?
Can anyone remind me what happened that time please, I can't quite remember!

 

[Domh245]

Call me cynical, but this may just be some desperate attempt to win support back off Corbyn, who does seem to be walking away with the victory. Mr Burnham is trying to prove that he can do left-wing policies as well

 

[rebmcr]

The Franchises aren't a significant obstacle, assuming they are 'converted' when each run out. The RoSCOs are going to be much trickier...

 

[455driver]

The ROSCOs shouldn't be a problem, they can either comply with the Governments proposals or they could find themselves with lots of old trains with no work for them.

TBH it might be a good idea to leave the ROSCOs as they are, at least in the medium term.

 

[ainsworth74]

The Franchises aren't a significant obstacle, assuming they are 'converted' when each run out. The RoSCOs are going to be much trickier...

Indeed. With the Franchises you just don't renew and when the first one ends use DOR to run it and build from there into whatever structure you eventually want (bring back the old sectors perhaps?). But getting the Rolling Stock back will be very much harder.

I mean I suppose any new orders would just be bought and owned by the new state company but the old stock would either have to be purchased back or the leasing fees would just have to be paid until the state company no longer wanted to lease them any more due to acquiring new stock.

It would be a very interesting exercise trying to renationalise from our current position that's for sure!

 

[talldave]

Fantasy railways?? Biggest problem appears to be Labour's inability to understand the qualities required of a leader, instead choosing a succession of election losers. I don't think today's announcement will worry the TOCs.

 

[swt_passenger]

The ROSCOs shouldn't be a problem, they can either comply with the Governments proposals or they could find themselves with lots of old trains with no work for them.

A future government would buy duplicate fleets of trains to avoid using the Rosco's existing stock? That'd be a real money saver...

 

[Howardh]

If we actually had two or three companies competing on the same line that might help. But, deep down, I think we're stuck with privatisation.

But maybe they could have different companies, but paint all the trains the same, have the same BR logo, and have a standard nationwide fares/ticketing policy and tell the TOC's to get on with it.....

 

[ScotTrains]

Sounds like same old Labour to me. A new approach would be to encourage more companies/ public organisations to bid. Greater competition= new ideas= better service and lower prices. Just look at the latest Scotrail franchise: more trains, smart cards, cycle schemes, scenic/steam trains, better catering etc.. and cheap fares from £5 (£7.50 First) between any city. I doubt anything like this would have happened had the railways not been privatised.

 

[thenorthern]

I was surprised when I saw this as its not something I would expect to hear from Andy Burnham to be honest. I agree with the others its just to try and win votes of Corbyn.

I can't ever see Labour re-nationalising the railways to be honest. They only seem to call for re-nationalisation between elections when the Conservatives are in government as they know it will make them popular with voters although at the last election if you remember Ed Milliband didn't commit to full re-nationalisation in his manifesto despite making calls for the Conservatives to do it in 2012.

His idea of waiting until the franchises run out seems quite logical although given that the earliest he could become Prime Minister in 2020 someone should ask him how long he expects the re-nationalisation to take as 2 of the franchises have expiry dates after 2025 which would be the end of his first term if he won power and 11 franchises are up for re-tendering before then and will likely have new expiry dates beyond 2025 meaning he could re-nationalise 3 companies in his first term. Not really that great and the whole process could take many years which if the Conservatives won power in that time then his plan would be off.

 

[Moonshot]

Sounds like same old Labour to me. A new approach would be to encourage more companies/ public organisations to bid. Greater competition= new ideas= better service and lower prices. Just look at the latest Scotrail franchise: more trains, smart cards, cycle schemes, scenic/steam trains, better catering etc.. and cheap fares from £5 (£7.50 First) between any city. I doubt anything like this would have happened had the railways not been privatised.

I assume that you would have no objection if "more companies/public organisations to bid " were from outside the UK?

You have to also wonder what would happen with the pay and conditions of drivers and guards etc if TOCS were brought back under direct state control....as they would become public sector employees no doubt subject to the same pay freezes the rest of the public sector has suffered. Also , what would happen to the small number of Open Access operators? Would they be asked to give up ?

 

[Carlisle]

This is the same promise Blair made in the 90s... Didn't happen.

Did he ever actually promise to renationalise? I remember lots of waffle from John Prescott before and during government about creating a publicly accountable railway but never a definitive pledge to actually renationalise the railways

 

[bramling]

Did he ever actually promise to renationalise? I remember lots of waffle from John Prescott before and during government about creating a publicly accountable railway but never a definitive pledge to actually renationalise the railways

I'm sure I remember the exact wording in the run-up to the 1997 election was "The Labour Party is committed to a publicly owned, publicly accountable railway".

In government Labour then went and part-privatised London Underground - which turned out to be a total unmitigated disaster.

 

[Carlisle]

Ok cheers so clearly the Blair government did claim to re nationalise

 

[Holly]

The ROSCOs shouldn't be a problem, they can either comply with the Governments proposals or they could find themselves with lots of old trains with no work for them.
TBH it might be a good idea to leave the ROSCOs as they are, at least in the medium term.

Time honoured solution is to introduce taxes or fees (eg for government safety inspections whether for domestic use or export) so as to make them want to be rid of train ownership.
"The power to tax is the power to destroy."

 

[work-traveller]

his plan would be to simply bring them back into public ownership

But the TOC's are already part state owned. I wonder if the franchise subsidies we (effectively) pay to the Federal Republic of Germany and the Netherlands count towards the UK's overall EU subsidy...

 

[meridian2]

Electorate mind-games; do they think we're stupid?

 

[thenorthern]

Electorate mind-games; do they think we're stupid?

I reckon they think the commuter is stupid and they are offering a "fix all" solution,

 

[Bodiddly]

Desperate rhetoric from a desperate candidate in a desperate leadership battle.
The New Labour cronies are terrified Corbyn will win and drag the party back to the left. Burnham and the others will be churning out this nonsense right up to the vote.
This latest claim can be taken with a rather large pinch of salt.

 

[talldave]

Desperate rhetoric from a desperate candidate in a desperate leadership battle.
The New Labour cronies are terrified Corbyn will win and drag the party back to the left. Burnham and the others will be churning out this nonsense right up to the vote.
This latest claim can be taken with a rather large pinch of salt.

I also thought policies were decided by the party as a whole, not dictated by individuals?

Passengers are interested in cost, service frequency, punctuality/reliability and comfort. Making unachievable claims about nationalisation is less inspiring than promises of maintaining or increasing the level of investment in infrastructure and rolling stock.
It's taking years to recover from an extended period of under investment so let's not screw it up now.

 

[ninjazx6r]

Surely a good opportunity was lost when you had the window of ECML, WCML and GWML up for refranchising, they could have been nationalised and renamed Inter-City.

Bottom line is that governments are not committed to a successful railway, privatisation was bodged and look at the subsides paid out now.

 

[47802]

The way the Labour is going it doesn't really matter what any of them say they wont be running the country anytime soon, and if Corbyn wins you may as well congratulate the Tories on their 2020 election victory

 

[thenorthern]

The way the Labour is going it doesn't really matter what any of them say they wont be running the country anytime soon, and if Corbyn wins you may as well congratulate the Tories on their 2020 election victory

To be honest I reckon Corbyn could win the 2020 election and rail nationalisation is one of the things why simple because its things that voters want. I personally don't support

With the topic of re-nationalisation though I can't see Labour ever pledging re-nationalisation unless Corbyn is leader and even then I reckon there would be a high chance of a "Well my advisors have said that it is not in the best interests of the passengers" before an election.

I have met Andy Burnham and I hold the distinction of being the only person he has said "Worst of luck for tomorrow" to. Pledging to re-nationalise the railways though seems rather odd from him though as he always seems to be rather New Labour.

I think I saw the new Liberal Democrats leader Tim Farron mention that he supports a re-nationalisation but the Lib Dems are now a tiny voice in the wilderness.

 

[47802]

To be honest I reckon Corbyn could win the 2020 election and rail nationalisation is one of the things why simple because its things that voters want. I personally don't support

With the topic of re-nationalisation though I can't see Labour ever pledging re-nationalisation unless Corbyn is leader and even then I reckon there would be a high chance of a "Well my advisors have said that it is not in the best interests of the passengers" before an election.

I have met Andy Burnham and I hold the distinction of being the only person he has said "Worst of luck for tomorrow" to. Pledging to re-nationalise the railways though seems rather odd from him though as he always seems to be rather New Labour.

I think I saw the new Liberal Democrats leader Tim Farron mention that he supports a re-nationalisation but the Lib Dems are now a tiny voice in the wilderness.

Well I think your wrong on that and I certainly wont be voting for Corbyn Labour that's for sure, while this just seems like desperation from Burnham, who I personally like less than dead end Ed

Sounds like the 80's to me where the Tories were in power and Labour were just the angry left, it wouldnt surprise if me there was civil war in the Labour Party if Corbyn won.

 

[MidlandMainlie]

Not surprised Andy Burnham has promised re-nationalisation of the railway network, his campaign is being run by shadow transport minister Michael Dugher who has said he wants to put the franchising system in the bin. Whether Burnham actually follows it through though if he wins remains to be seen, Corbyn actually means it though.

 

[misterredmist]

Will the railways be privatised before the coal mines ?

In all seriousness, would it actually be possible and practical to re-nationalise the railways?

would the TOC's ( including Dutch & German State Railways ) be crying to the European Courts ?

I could see it getting very smelly............

 

[Domeyhead]

But the TOC's are already part state owned. I wonder if the franchise subsidies we (effectively) pay to the Federal Republic of Germany and the Netherlands count towards the UK's overall EU subsidy...

Agree this is one of these hidden drains of rail income - but how is Nationalisation going to stop it? The DfT has mismanaged capital demand for years so instead of British manufacturers having a steady stream of work to build from there are years of famine which sees smaller companies shut down their resources (and which almost destroyed Bombardier as a train builder 10 years ago) then a glut when overseas companies pick off our huge orders. The DfT, The ORR, and the "Strategic Rail Authority" (ha ha) had the ability to manage capital growth over the last 20 years and we still ended up with the embarrasing fiasco of cancelling the Midland electrification because NR (also now public) no longer has the ability to staff two or more major programmes concurrently. How is privatising the Service Delivery arm going to make any impact on capital infrastructure growth stream? The promises made by politicians tend to reveal how little they understand about how to remediate an admittedly disfunctional system.