Beggars!

[Room_512]

Yesterday my wife and a colleague travelled down from Wakefield to Plumstead for a work visit.

All went well but on the train from London Bridge to Plumstead they were first approached by a man asking for spare change (he moved on quickly when a man sat opposite challenged him as to what he wanted it for) and then a woman walked down the train leaving pieces of paper with a story about having a crippled mother and no money to pay for food for her children on it on the seats, she then walked back down the train collecting them back up again. This was repeated on the way back from Plumstead, but this time it was a young lad wanting money for his siblings, strangely they were the same age and he also had a crippled mother...

Must admit its not something I've come across up here on the local trains in Yorkshire, is it something that's widespread, maybe due to no ticket checks on barrierless Plumstead line?

 

[plymothian]

Text BTP on 61016 to report.
Nothing will happen immediately unfortunately, but it builds profiles.

Begging is rife on GWR DOO services; there's always complaints on their twitter feed.

 

[James_D]

I've seen this a few times on the SWT services between Waterloo and Reading. On those occasions they've left a small packet of pocket tissues with the note encouraging people to buy them and then coming back along the train to pick them up when nobody did. From what I recall they seemed to be of South East European/Romani origin.

 

[yorkie]

Yes, it's rife. I told one of them in no uncertain terms he was to leave.

Where would we stand if we placed any unattended items in the bin as litter?

 

[mwmbwls]

Yes, it's rife. I told one of them in no uncertain terms he was to leave.

Where would we stand if we placed any unattended items in the bin as litter?

Where would we sit if the otherwise vacant seat pad was occupied by a pack of tissues?

 

[AM9]

.... Must admit its not something I've come across up here on the local trains in Yorkshire, is it something that's widespread, maybe due to no ticket checks on barrierless Plumstead line?

It's probably more endemic here in the south-east as there's more money down here, particularly with rail passengers. I've seen it on Thameslink trains but only in off-peak periods. I doubt that they would get very far in a train loaded with commuters!

 

[DarloRich]

Yesterday my wife and a colleague travelled down from Wakefield to Plumstead for a work visit.

All went well but on the train from London Bridge to Plumstead they were first approached by a man asking for spare change (he moved on quickly when a man sat opposite challenged him as to what he wanted it for) and then a woman walked down the train leaving pieces of paper with a story about having a crippled mother and no money to pay for food for her children on it on the seats, she then walked back down the train collecting them back up again. This was repeated on the way back from Plumstead, but this time it was a young lad wanting money for his siblings, strangely they were the same age and he also had a crippled mother...

Must admit its not something I've come across up here on the local trains in Yorkshire, is it something that's widespread, maybe due to no ticket checks on barrierless Plumstead line?

seems to happen often enough on SE London services. Oddly it seems to be on services that don't seem to have a guard......

Contacting BTP via text seems to be the only option

 

[Room_512]

Thanks for the correspondence all.

Looks like the tissue thing, as it said something about buying a tissue on the note, however it appears that they must have run out of said tissues as there weren't any with it!

 

[WestRiding]

I have never experienced this on trains, but have in café bars all over Europe, particularly Spain. Never on an English train though.

 

[Radedamer]

Very common on urban trains in many cities which act as 'wealth magnets' within their countries; London is a prime example, but pretty much any European capital attracts this.

Is it a problem? Well, it's clearly a sign of underlying problems, but they're not directly connected to or caused by railways!

 

[Antman]

Yesterday my wife and a colleague travelled down from Wakefield to Plumstead for a work visit.

All went well but on the train from London Bridge to Plumstead they were first approached by a man asking for spare change (he moved on quickly when a man sat opposite challenged him as to what he wanted it for) and then a woman walked down the train leaving pieces of paper with a story about having a crippled mother and no money to pay for food for her children on it on the seats, she then walked back down the train collecting them back up again. This was repeated on the way back from Plumstead, but this time it was a young lad wanting money for his siblings, strangely they were the same age and he also had a crippled mother...

Must admit its not something I've come across up here on the local trains in Yorkshire, is it something that's widespread, maybe due to no ticket checks on barrierless Plumstead line?

A common problem in London even on lines where ticket barriers are in use, if nobody ever gave them any money they would soon stop

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I'm sure everyone's journeys would be much improved if they weren't constantly confronted with signs of growing wealth inequality... The poor should stay under bridges where the (relatively) rich don't have to see them!

 

[pethadine82]

These are Roma gypsies, part of an organised gang.
They already get welfare payouts by claiming to be self employed and thus entitled to working tax credits.

They should not be approached and you should never give them money under any circumstances!

 

[nuneatonmark]

I'm sure everyone's journeys would be much improved if they weren't constantly confronted with signs of growing wealth inequality... The poor should stay under bridges where the (relatively) rich don't have to see them!

You're making the assumption that these people are the poor ones. By and large they are not, many of them are in highly organised groups that own large houses and cars in their native country and simply do this as it's a an easy way of making a lot of money out of naive people.

 

[Antman]

You're making the assumption that these people are the poor ones. By and large they are not, many of them are in highly organised groups that own large houses and cars in their native country and simply do this as it's a an easy way of making a lot of money out of naive people.

Absolutely, a lot of these beggars are far better off than the people they're trying to get money from.

If anybody wants to help those in genuine need there are plenty of charities to donate to

 

[Johnuk123]

I remember the Romanian pm saying how wonderful it was that so many Roma gypsies were now moving to England and how the organised crime rate had dropped so much in his country.

 

[northwichcat]

I have never experienced this on trains, but have in café bars all over Europe, particularly Spain. Never on an English train though.

I've experienced this in Berlin and Salzburg (not on trains) and on the Roma-Lido railway.

I've also experienced people trying to sell cheap rubbish for over inflated prices on the Barcelona Metro and on a DB Regio service.

 

[theageofthetra]

Report to BTP as said above. Majority are Roma & the girls in particular are invariably forced into it by people smuggling gangs under threats of violence. Been endemic in parts of Eastern Europe & France for years, & has now been imported here. I was on a train in Southern France a couple of years ago & some kids charity with police back up targetted these girls as the issue was particularly bad in the Arles/Marseille area. They got surrounded by their slave masters at Arles & it looked quite intimidating & as though a riot was about to kick off.

There are mansions in Roma villages in Albania, Romania & Bulgaria paid for from these seemingly innocent tissue & other begging operations by exploiting the vulnerable. If you want to help several charities who deal with this problem would appreciate your donation, give to them not to a millionaire parasite.

 

[JaJaWa]

seems to happen often enough on SE London services. Oddly it seems to be on services that don't seem to have a guard......

Contacting BTP via text seems to be the only option

It happens on the Jubilee line too, bring back Underground guards

Not just a European problem - I live just over the border from Shenzhen in southern China and you get it there. Usually with flowers being put in your pockets by small girls though.

 

[theageofthetra]

Interesting re China. I was recently on a railtour in NZ & a large group of Aussie enthusiasts were on board. Some of them had recently done a rail trip round China & mentioned about these girls begging & that it is starting to happen on some Sydney trains. In Sydney all the trains have guards and they also seem to monitor the internal CCTV for any sort of antisocial behaviour including begging. We could do with that sort of monitoring here.

 

[NorthernSpirit]

I've had someone place a note in my hand saying that they was poor and had no money, so rather than handing the note back to the individual who was of Eastern European desent, I kept it and said that it would be handed to the police. By this time the person became aggitated and panicky which to me was a tell tale sign that their scam wouldn't wash with me.

What was scrawled on the note was "Please help, I have no money for food or clothes for my children. Please give me what you can."

 

[WestCoast]

I'm actually amazed by the relative lack of begging on the Tube and on the rail network, considering how busy it is and some of the wealthy clientele it attracts. Sure, the problem seems to have got worse in recent years but it seems well managed compared to some other large European and North American cities.

I was in New York in 2012 and witnessed multiple beggars and many homeless people on the Subway. One guy asking for change somewhere on a Subway in Manhattan was wearing nothing but rags.

Also check out pretty much any large station in continental Europe serving a big city or the immediate area outside (examples like Frankfurt Hbf and Rome Termini) and there will often be groups of beggars, homeless, drug addicts, pickpockets, thieves and/or street prostitutes. I often find UK stations are (or at least appear to be) free of much of that activity.

Having said that, the only time I've felt threatened by the number of beggars/addicts was on the Luas Red Line in Dublin between Heuston and Connolly. There were clusters of them harassing people on trams and at stops, sometimes becoming aggressive especially towards non-locals.

 

[ValleyLines142]

I was on a Southern service from Victoria to Brighton last week and saw the same practice there. A man came around the train with a packet of tissues and placed them on the tables, and I thought this was lovely as I had a stinking cold at the time, but then I saw a message saying him and his family were poor. By East Croydon he returned through the train and collected them. Not a single person donated money.

 

[DarloRich]

Having said that, the only time I've felt threatened by the number of beggars/addicts was on the Luas Red Line in Dublin between Heuston and Connolly. There were clusters of them harassing people on trams and at stops, sometimes becoming aggressive especially towards non-locals.

it is only in recent years that has been the case - see Kings Cross in the 1980's/90's?

I to am surprised we don't see more of this kind of thing.

 

[WestCoast]

it is only in recent years that has been the case - see Kings Cross in the 1980's/90's?

Exactly like that! Complete with a motley collection of characters outside. You might still get the odd person asking for change etc, but I can't think of one large UK station serving a big city that I'd class as 'a bit dodgy'.

In mainland Europe it's the opposite. The stations seem to be home to all the 'characters'.

Outside most big German stations you seem to have to fight your way through hoards of beer swilling 'characters', even if they don't say anything to you it's not pleasant.

 

[GatwickDepress]

I imagine most people don't carry that much disposable cash with them anymore. I've got a £20 note for emergencies and that's it really - most of my transactions are done with my card.

 

[Room_512]

I imagine most people don't carry that much disposable cash with them anymore. I've got a £20 note for emergencies and that's it really - most of my transactions are done with my card.

I'd agree with that, always have a problem when doing the weekly shop when they have people from the local sports team or whatever doing bag packing, never have any cash so have to apologise to them!

I guess in London these days there's even less cash about seeing as no-one can use it on public transport any more.

 

[BurtonM]

This is a problem on Southeastern too, Orpington line and that general Bromley area. Again it's guardless, DOO, and there are a lot of unstaffed or at least unbarriered stations.
Never experience anything of the sort up here in Manchester though.
Is there any sort of law against nuisance practices like this? There should be.

 

[ag51ruk]

Having said that, the only time I've felt threatened by the number of beggars/addicts was on the Luas Red Line in Dublin between Heuston and Connolly. There were clusters of them harassing people on trams and at stops, sometimes becoming aggressive especially towards non-locals.

I've travelled on public transport all over the world but the only time I've ever been assaulted was on a Luas in that exact section - someone grabbed me and tried to take my phone from my jacket pocket just before the doors closed. He managed to jump out without the phone and rant at md from the platform as we moved off. None of the locals batted an eyelid, apparently happened all the time.

 

[387star]

Happened on one of my trains out of cardiff with collecting tins and fake looking name badges and called the btp but these lads were making young girls uncomfortable as well