Expansions for Scotland's rail network proposed

[route:oxford]

Winchburgh will be served by the Dunblane service as per the Franchise Agreement.

Which will degrade the performance of the Dunblane service even further.

I know that the performance of electric units should improve things a little, but it is getting absolutely ridiculous.

Since the 80s:-

Bridge of Allan
Camelon
Edinburgh Park

And now Winchburgh.

Stations have all opened on this route and, with on-board congestion and loading delays, services are now taking around 1h15 in the evening.

With the sheer volumes of people cramming on board these services, it's time that there was both a clockface stopper (alternating all stations to Alloa on xx:05 and all stations to Dunblane on xx:35) as well as a "fast" service to Dunblane every xx:20 and xx:50 or thereabouts.

"Fasts" stopping at:-

Waverley
Haymarket
Edinburgh Park
Falkirk Grahamston
Stirling
Bridge of Allan
Dunblane

 

[Glenmutchkin]

Which will degrade the performance of the Dunblane service even further.

I know that the performance of electric units should improve things a little, but it is getting absolutely ridiculous.

Since the 80s:-

Bridge of Allan
Camelon
Edinburgh Park

And now Winchburgh.

Stations have all opened on this route and, with on-board congestion and loading delays, services are now taking around 1h15 in the evening.

With the sheer volumes of people cramming on board these services, it's time that there was both a clockface stopper (alternating all stations to Alloa on xx:05 and all stations to Dunblane on xx:35) as well as a "fast" service to Dunblane every xx:20 and xx:50 or thereabouts.

"Fasts" stopping at:-

Waverley
Haymarket
Edinburgh Park
Falkirk Grahamston
Stirling
Bridge of Allan
Dunblane

I'm a bit new to all of this and I might be missing something.

Are you really arguing that opening new stations close to where people live is a bad thing?

 

[Altnabreac]

Which will degrade the performance of the Dunblane service even further.

I know that the performance of electric units should improve things a little, but it is getting absolutely ridiculous.

Since the 80s:-

Bridge of Allan
Camelon
Edinburgh Park

And now Winchburgh.

Stations have all opened on this route and, with on-board congestion and loading delays, services are now taking around 1h15 in the evening.

With the sheer volumes of people cramming on board these services, it's time that there was both a clockface stopper (alternating all stations to Alloa on xx:05 and all stations to Dunblane on xx:35) as well as a "fast" service to Dunblane every xx:20 and xx:50 or thereabouts.

"Fasts" stopping at:-

Waverley
Haymarket
Edinburgh Park
Falkirk Grahamston
Stirling
Bridge of Allan
Dunblane

Except there is no more capacity for these extra services in the western throat at Waverley (on the south lines anyway). The 6tph Edinburgh - Glasgow service would have used the capacity if it existed but without Dalmeny Chord it doesn't exist.

If it did exist it would be more likely the extra 2tph would go to Glasgow (population 900,000) than Dunblane (population 8,000).

The Winchburgh stops have to be accommodated in the time gained by electrification as the timetable is tight at Newbridge Junction.

Extra stops are not ideal for existing passengers but the new station will enable development and regeneration of the area. Particularly welcome is the fact the station is entirely private sector funded.

 

[kirkierobroy]

I didn't know there was to be a Winchburgh Station.

What, really, is the point of the Edinburgh Gateway malarkey? Without the Dalmeny Chord, trains from Glasgow won't be using it. Does it really offer access to Embra Airport that's so much better than the Edinburgh Park Tram/Train interchange?

 

[47271]

I didn't know there was to be a Winchburgh Station.

What, really, is the point of the Edinburgh Gateway malarkey? Without the Dalmeny Chord, trains from Glasgow won't be using it. Does it really offer access to Embra Airport that's so much better than the Edinburgh Park Tram/Train interchange?

Interchange for Fife line trains

 

[oldman]

Interchange for Fife line trains

Does this mean yet another stop for the painfully slow Fife circle trains?

 

[najaB]

Does this mean yet another stop for the painfully slow Fife circle trains?

I wouldn't be surprised to see alternate trains stopping at South Gyle and Edinburgh Gateway.

 

[Altnabreac]

I wouldn't be surprised to see alternate trains stopping at South Gyle and Edinburgh Gateway.

Also it's likely that at the very least the Dundee / Perth semi fasts will call at Edinburgh Gateway.

Yet to be determined whether Aberdeen and Inverness services will call but some of them may do as well.

That reduces the necessity for all the Fife Circle trains to call although I agree it probably will be a case of skip stopping with South Gyle.

 

[CuttingRemark]

What about opening St Andrews as part of a Perth & North Fife Line? Build chord at Guardbridge. Build chord at Ladybank, moving station north. Stop at Newburgh, Abernethy and Bridge of Earn.

 

[najaB]

What about opening St Andrews as part of a Perth & North Fife Line? Build chord at Guardbridge. Build chord at Ladybank, moving station north. Stop at Newburgh, Abernethy and Bridge of Earn.

Where would the station lie so that it could serve trains heading from Edinburgh to both Aberdeen/Leuchars and Perth/Inverness?

 

[me123]

I wouldn't be surprised to see alternate trains stopping at South Gyle and Edinburgh Gateway.

I assume closing South Gyle wouldn't possibly be considered. Even though the stations will be exceptionally close to each other and serve similar areas. With a sizeable portion of the traffic already being served by the trams at Gyle Central and Edinburgh Park Central, South Gyle begins to seem unnecessary to my eyes when you add in Gateway.

 

[najaB]

I assume closing South Gyle wouldn't possibly be considered. Even though the stations will be exceptionally close to each other and serve similar areas.

Closing an Edinburgh station would be politically difficult to say the least.

 

[CuttingRemark]

Where would the station lie so that it could serve trains heading from Edinburgh to both Aberdeen/Leuchars and Perth/Inverness?

I suppose that the Leuchars-Guardbridge station would need to be on the northern edge of Guardbridge.

 

[John07]

I didn't know there was to be a Winchburgh Station.

What, really, is the point of the Edinburgh Gateway malarkey? Without the Dalmeny Chord, trains from Glasgow won't be using it. Does it really offer access to Embra Airport that's so much better than the Edinburgh Park Tram/Train interchange?

It was promised by the SNP as a sop to avoid flack when the EARL project was killed in 2007. It's only taken eight years!

 

[najaB]

I suppose that the Leuchars-Guardbridge station would need to be on the northern edge of Guardbridge.

I was more thinking about the relocated Ladybank.

 

[me123]

What, really, is the point of the Edinburgh Gateway malarkey? Without the Dalmeny Chord, trains from Glasgow won't be using it. Does it really offer access to Embra Airport that's so much better than the Edinburgh Park Tram/Train interchange?

To respond to this older post, it opens Edinburgh Airport and other destinations on the Tram network to lines towards Fife, Dundee and Aberdeen. Glasgow and the West have this link at Edinburgh Park at the moment.

I wonder if EGIP ever gets 6tph, if two of those trains will call at Edinburgh Park? Perhaps, in addition to the existing services, there could be a service calling at Lenzie, Falkirk High, Edinburgh Park and Haymarket. Although I've not sat and worked out if this is possible with the pathing available at the moment.

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Closing an Edinburgh station would be politically difficult to say the least.

Yeah. Closing any station is a tough ask. Look at the wonders of Golf Street and Barry Links, still open for a grand total of 130 pax pa between the two of them :roll:

South Gyle obviously isn't Golf Street or Barry Links. Half a million is a large number of passengers (and, to be honest, higher than I'd expected!). But Gateway will pick up most of this catchment area anyway, so I don't think it would be a great loss.

 

[47271]

It was promised by the SNP as a sop to avoid flack when the EARL project was killed in 2007. It's only taken eight years!

To be fair there wouldn't have been much point in building it straight away since all it would've done before the trams started running is provide excellent rail links between Fife and NE Scotland and the Gyle shopping centre, and the tram depot of course!

That said, it would've been helpful if it had opened at the same time as the trams started running last year!

 

[mcmad]

Yeah. Closing any station is a tough ask. Look at the wonders of Golf Street and Barry Links, still open for a grand total of 130 pax pa between the two of them :roll:

South Gyle obviously isn't Golf Street or Barry Links. Half a million is a large number of passengers (and, to be honest, higher than I'd expected!). But Gateway will pick up most of this catchment area anyway, so I don't think it would be a great loss.

Don't forget that South Gyle is (AFAIK) an experimental station so wouldn;t have to go through formal closure.

 

[najaB]

Don't forget that South Gyle is (AFAIK) an experimental station so wouldn;t have to go through formal closure.

What do you mean by an 'experimental station'?

Edit: Did a bit of Googling. Since it opened in 1985 would it still be classed as experimental?

 

[kirkierobroy]

I accept that Edinburgh Gateway opens up the airport and trams to the East Coast line traffic, but as originally proposed it was principally as a link for GQS-Waverley trains via the new Dalmeny Chord, was it not?

South Gyle actually has a surprising amount of housing around it, providing walk-up custom. It surprised me, anyway when I used it a while back.

 

[Altnabreac]

I accept that Edinburgh Gateway opens up the airport and trams to the East Coast line traffic, but as originally proposed it was principally as a link for GQS-Waverley trains via the new Dalmeny Chord, was it not?

South Gyle actually has a surprising amount of housing around it, providing walk-up custom. It surprised me, anyway when I used it a while back.

The original EGIP scheme planned to have 6tph from Glasgow QS - Edinburgh. This would have involved at least 2tph (probably 4tph) running via Dalmeny Chord.

Various service options were suggested including 2tph fast from QS to Haymarket or all 6tph skip stopping, either of which could have allowed Glasgow services to stop at Edinburgh Gateway.

Of course nothing is stopping QS - Edinburgh services stopping at Edinburgh Park currently except that modelling shows this would lose more passengers through journey time extensions than it would gain. The 2 options of getting a train from QS via Bathgate or changing at Linlithgow to the Stirling service are thought to provide sufficient access to west Edinburgh, the tram and the airport.

Once High Speed Rail and the Dalmeny Chord are built in future then I would expect to see Glasgow QS - Edinburgh services stopping at Edinburgh Gateway eventually but that's at least 10 years off.

 

[deltic08]

The original EGIP scheme planned to have 6tph from Glasgow QS - Edinburgh. This would have involved at least 2tph (probably 4tph) running via Dalmeny Chord.

Various service options were suggested including 2tph fast from QS to Haymarket or all 6tph skip stopping, either of which could have allowed Glasgow services to stop at Edinburgh Gateway.

Of course nothing is stopping QS - Edinburgh services stopping at Edinburgh Park currently except that modelling shows this would lose more passengers through journey time extensions than it would gain. The 2 options of getting a train from QS via Bathgate or changing at Linlithgow to the Stirling service are thought to provide sufficient access to west Edinburgh, the tram and the airport.

Once High Speed Rail and the Dalmeny Chord are built in future then I would expect to see Glasgow QS - Edinburgh services stopping at Edinburgh Gateway eventually but that's at least 10 years off.

If Linlithgow is to become an interchange station then it needs some platform canopies.

 

[Altnabreac]

If Linlithgow is to become an interchange station then it needs some platform canopies.

Linlithgow has been an interchange station for years for accessing Edinburgh Park.

There is plenty of covered waiting areas on both sides.

 

[SouthSub]

I accept that Edinburgh Gateway opens up the airport and trams to the East Coast line traffic, but as originally proposed it was principally as a link for GQS-Waverley trains via the new Dalmeny Chord, was it not?

South Gyle actually has a surprising amount of housing around it, providing walk-up custom. It surprised me, anyway when I used it a while back.

South Gyle is also heavily used at peak times by workers in Edinburgh Park. Edinburgh Gateway will be closer for the offices at the north west side of the business park, but South Gyle will still be more convenient for a lot of workers.

 

[clc]

Article about Levenmouth in the Courier:-

"A campaign to reopen the Levenmouth rail link has taken a significant step forward.

Councillors have approved a key transport appraisal that backs reinstating the five-mile stretch of track between Leven and Thornton for passengers and freight.

The link would connect with the Fife circle line, a move seen as a vital step towards regenerating Levenmouth and pulling people out of poverty.

A suggestion to improve bus links between Levenmouth and Markinch Railway Station has also been backed as a short-term solution to the area’s transport problems, although it has been made clear this should not be seen as an alternative to the railway.

The Scottish Transport Appraisal Guidance (Stag) report will be presented to Transport Scotland before negotiations begin with Network Rail.

The council expects to hear by October 2018 whether the £78 million scheme will be approved and, if it is, the entire project should be completed between 2019 and 2026.

The Levenmouth rail link has been the local authority’s top transport priority for a number of years and £2m was set aside to complete the Stag.

At yesterday’s meeting of the council’s executive committee, where the recommendations were approved, praise was heaped on members of Levenmouth Rail Campaign, which has collected thousands of signatures and piled pressure on the Scottish Government as part of the bid to reopen the line.

Deputy council leader Lesley Laird said: “If you look at the campaign for the Borders railway, it’s not just about the Stag process. What worked for them was wider involvement by community groups.

“This is where the real work begins and we need everyone in this room to go out and be advocates for the Levenmouth rail campaign because, clearly, there are huge benefits to be gained from that.”

Administration leader David Ross stressed that Levenmouth was still the largest conurbation in Scotland without direct access to rail travel.

“This is a significant stage in the campaign,” he said. “Having a rail link gives a certain status to towns and Leven deserves that status.”

http://www.thecourier.co.uk/news/lo...to-levenmouth-rail-link-bid-campaign-1.911503

 

[najaB]

The council expects to hear by October 2018 whether the £78 million scheme will be approved and, if it is, the entire project should be completed between 2019 and 2026.

Seven years to reopen a railway that's still there (though OOU) - does that seem excessively long to anyone else?

 

[MarkRedon]

Seven years to reopen a railway that's still there (though OOU) - does that seem excessively long to anyone else?

Maybe the actual number is two years? Two years after the start of a control period, either 2019 or 2024? Interestingly, one of the recommendations in the PAC Public Accounts Committee report (see thread http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=123412) is to decouple significant investment from control periods.

 

[Philip Phlopp]

Seven years to reopen a railway that's still there (though OOU) - does that seem excessively long to anyone else?

It's the council's planning period - the intention is to have the route re-opened by the end of their 20 year (2006-2026) planning period.

Re-opening the route should be achievable within 12 to 18 months, from design, planning permissions and construction works through to opening, unless Mark Whitby spots a plant pot he likes.

 

[najaB]

It's the council's planning period - the intention is to have the route re-opened by the end of their 20 year (2006-2026) planning period.

Re-opening the route should be achievable within 12 to 18 months, from design, planning permissions and construction works through to opening, unless Mark Whitby spots a plant pot he likes.

Ah, that makes more sense. Thanks.

 

[clc]

How much additional capacity would Glasgow require in order to meet future needs based on confirmed or realistic potential new services/increased frequency on existing services?

HS2 - 1-2tph
E2G HSR - 3tph
East Kilbride - 2tph
Neilston - 2tph
Circle - 1tph
Airport Tram Train - 4tph
Renfrew - 2tph
Total - 15-16tph

Anything else?