Derbyshire suggests reduction of indigos between Long Eaton and Nottingham. Every 10 minutes again presumably, perhaps the entire route in to Nottingham?
https://www.derbyshire.gov.uk/trans.../news_notices/bus_service_changes/default.asp
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Nottingham 'Bus War'
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Derbyshire suggests reduction of indigos between Long Eaton and Nottingham. Every 10 minutes again presumably, perhaps the entire route in to Nottingham?
https://www.derbyshire.gov.uk/trans.../news_notices/bus_service_changes/default.asp
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According to Notts tv the launch is Monday.
nottinghamcity
Member
It has been very poorly promoted in that case!
Details are here though http://news.nottstv.com/nottinghams-robin-hood-smartcard
Seems to be phased, and currently provides a daily capping on multi-operator trips. With the better things to come over time.
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edwin_m
Veteran Member
There is an invitation to other bus operators and EMT to come on board. They would have fallen foul of the Competition Commission if they hadn't given all bus operators an equal opportunity to participate. Presumably the others declined for the time being, perhaps on the grounds of not having suitable readers, or too few routes within the area to make it worth their while.
To me this is a missed opportunity. Day travel is capped at £3.15 per operator and £4 total, so good value for regular but not daily Kangaroo users (surely can't be many people?). But the NCT pink Easyrider card is still much cheaper per day if bought in lots of 100 days, so the conundrum remains of which option to use in the morning if you don't know whose bus you will be coming home on in the evening.
It mentioned somewhere that the existing single-operator products would be withdrawn, which would increase costs significantly for people like me who travel two or three times a week and can normally stick with NCT. Perhaps the Robin Hood will be given extra capping equivalent to the pink Easyrider. But that might be difficult as the cost per day depends on how many days are purchased and with a multi-operator card it is not known at the time of top-up how the money will be split between operators.
If you're using an Easyrider enough to make 100 days worth loading you'd probably be better off with one of there green ones.
The weekly capping will be the interesting one for people like me - i.e. use the bus occasionally, can make do with one operator but having the choice of multiple ones is very beneficial (i.e. getting the next bus home after an evening out as opposed to waiting for 40 minutes), occasionally have spurts of higher use (e.g. when off work for a few days) but can't really afford to top up a pink Easyrider up with enough days to make it worthwhile, and seeing the Kangaroo as being overly expensive. Also handy of the days where we are planning to go out after work - where you've got to choose between paying for a daily ticket you might not use (i.e. when it's late and you get a taxi home), or paying over the odds for two singles
I think the next few years will be interesting here - i.e. when the weekly capping is introduced, when travel cards can be loaded on, if the D2N2 stuff sees it rolled out across the wider East Midlands, and if it's extended, like Oyster, to simply work with contactless cards.
Think of say three years time - when the City Card, Mango, Easy Rider are retired and all the regular season tickets / 10 trip Mango's are on the same card.
You add your regular NCT Monthly East Rider ticket to it and use this most days and you PAYG.
Or you have a Kangaroo on your Robin Hood for day to day use, then decide to spend the day in Derby and use it for PAYG over there, and your train journey back.
Also, as it's an ITSO compliant card hopefully all the countries operators will have got their act together and delivered on the promises - i.e. your NCT Anytime Monthly Ticket and EMT Nottingham to Leicester Season ticket will be on the same card, and then you decide to visit Brum and add a Plus Bus ticket to it and the same card works for your Cross Country Trains service to Brum, and then on Local buses once there. Alas, sods law dictates I'll still have a Robin Hood, City Card, Oyster, and Stagecoach Smart...
tbone
Member
I doubt mango will be retired, given that it can be used across the Trent Barton network rather than just Nottingham.
Looks like the eventual plan is to retire all the others - remember the D2N2 deal is likely to see this become the smart card for Derbys and Notts...
http://news.nottstv.com/nottinghams-robin-hood-smartcard-how-will-it-work/
What if I already have another travel card?
Other travel cards will still be valid, such as Mango, Kangaroo and CityCard. Robin Hood will eventually be the only card that operates across all of these services
tbone
Member
That may be D2N2's aim but they can't force an operator to not use their own card. I'm sure each operator would rather customers bought their own card and then they're committed to using their services. For example, at the QMC, a passenger with a genie/mango/easycard will use the service they can use their card on, a passenger with a Robin Hood card will use the first.
Mitch in Notts
Member
Think a lot will depend on take up of the Robin Hood Card. If eventually a large percentage swapped from easyrider/mango//kangaroo to Robin Hood card it would make those cards unviable for the operator and they would be then more likely to be withdrawn as they become uneconomic for the operator. Look how eventually Frio was scrapped by Trent, as the mango became more widely used.
Trent Barton's page on the Robin Hood card
https://www.trentbarton.co.uk/news-and-media/our-news/article/robinhoodnetwork
https://www.trentbarton.co.uk/news-and-media/our-news/article/robinhoodnetwork
edwin_m
Veteran Member
As an example of using it 2 days per week, buying 100 days on a pink card costs £220.56, and would last for about a year. A yearly green card is £420. So I would suggest the pink card is good value for people using it a few times a week.
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It's quite possible some operators will take that view given the way they behave, but this would be a classic case of fighting for a bigger slice of the cake instead of working together to make the cake bigger.
If everybody gets the first bus back home then there will still be the same number of people using the same number of buses so the revenue will roughly balance out. Hopefully, if the card is well priced and marketed (I have my doubts, see above) it will increase the total number of bus and tram passengers and all operators will therefore benefit.
Mitch in Notts
Member
Interesting you can use it on Pronto...... so Stagecoach Mansfield accept it do they?.........
As usual left hand has no idea what right hand is doing.......
tbone
Member
I see this from a different perspective.
Nottingham has one of the highest rates of bus use in the country. Whilst a bus focused council no doubt helps, I believe that this is due to two strong, customer focused operators in Trent Barton and NCT.
This has led to operators 'cherry picking' the more profitable of these routes. In the recent past we've seen Premiere and Bellamys and we currently have yourbus and AOT doing just that.
A lot of these ventures have been unsuccessful, often due to passengers being committed to the incumbent operator with a longer term ticket.
A joint card may well lead to more examples of this cherry picking which isn't sustainable long term, it doesn't tend to grow markets only split the existing customers between two services.
Mitch in Notts
Member
Would agree on Yourbus, but surely AOT offer something nobody else does - Hucknall Estates to City Centre in under 40minutes & on one bus - neither is possible with other operators.
A Trent driver said to me this morning if Yourbus extended the Y1 beyond Eastwood to Nottingham they would make a killing. Rainbow1s are overloaded & very unreliable now & I don't just mean at Christmas. In fact it would probably ease the chronic problems for regular users if they did extend it through.
Especially when Stagecoach and TrentBarton can't even come to an agreement over the use of their own multi journey paper tickets on Pronto. Stagecoach Day Explorers and TrentBarton Zigzags can't even be used which require no technology, so what hope is there with electronic smart cards if the Robin Hood Card is expanded outside the city boundary in the future.
It's such an inconvenience when their own multi journey tickets, never mind multi operator tickets are not accepted. You already have paid approx £6 for a day ticket and then have to pay more to travel on Pronto.
I've said it all before earlier in this thread!
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edwin_m
Veteran Member
That may be a consequence of the Competition Commission. Two or more operators aren't allowed to introduce a multi-operator ticket unless all other relevant operators have had a chance to participate as well. This is supposedly for the benefit of bus users...
The X38 Derby-Burton seems to have fewer problems. You can get an X38-only season valid on all buses. You can't use one operator's multi-journey ticket on the other operator, but at least you can use each operator's ticket on their own buses (though you might have to wait nearly an hour instead of up to 20 minutes).
Mitch in Notts
Member
Never had a problem using a ZigZag on Arriva journeys, in fact I'm off to Burton shortly and contemplating do I buy a physical zigzag or use my Mango and save a pound and wait.....
Trentbarton are quite clear you can't use Mango on the Arriva services:
https://www.trentbarton.co.uk/services/X38/timetable
tbone
Member
I've just received the following email:
"Important information regarding your MANGO
On Monday 14 December 2015 the Nottingham Post incorrectly reported that MANGO is being phased out after the introduction of a new multi-operator smartcard in Nottingham.
We would like to clarify that MANGO is not changing, and will continue to work as normal on all trentbarton buses (except pronto & skylink Derby) and NET trams in Nottingham, and there are no changes to the existing Terms & Conditions.
Thank You"
"Important information regarding your MANGO
On Monday 14 December 2015 the Nottingham Post incorrectly reported that MANGO is being phased out after the introduction of a new multi-operator smartcard in Nottingham.
We would like to clarify that MANGO is not changing, and will continue to work as normal on all trentbarton buses (except pronto & skylink Derby) and NET trams in Nottingham, and there are no changes to the existing Terms & Conditions.
Thank You"
Mitch in Notts
Member
Wasn't thinking about using my Mango on the Arriva, but it was more a decision whether to buy a paper zigzag or use Mango and thus avoid Arriva runs!
Robertj21a
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But if you miss the X38s run by Arriva you'll have to put up with those 2 unreliable Tempos that Trent allocate (when they're actually available) - or anything else they dig up. About time Trent sorted their X38s out !
Mitch in Notts
Member
And on Facebook this morning NCT categorically stated they will NOT be phasing out Easyrider. Seems the City Council are trying to force change on operators - either that or they are jumping the gun.
Wasn't there a suggestion of ex Red Arrow coaches on the Trent X38s?
Robertj21a
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Yes, but died a death when they decided to launch the new Skylink Express.
Indigo is being cut to every 10 mins to Long Eaton , so that's 3 buses per hour that are going. All buses will run to Derby or Briar Gate.
It looks like the 3 trips from Old Sawley in the morning and the 3 return trips back in the evening are also cut.
I said to a BARTONS driver, when the Tram start's you will see at least a 24% cut on Indigo's pvr.
In Bingham, the town council want's to stop buses running upto Willow Road until 8am.
Also the team leader on the service has told the council that the Evening buses to Cropwell Bishop are under "review". But Stockely said he would give it 6 months so they cannot get rid of them till the end of February.
It looks like the 3 trips from Old Sawley in the morning and the 3 return trips back in the evening are also cut.
I said to a BARTONS driver, when the Tram start's you will see at least a 24% cut on Indigo's pvr.
In Bingham, the town council want's to stop buses running upto Willow Road until 8am.
Also the team leader on the service has told the council that the Evening buses to Cropwell Bishop are under "review". But Stockely said he would give it 6 months so they cannot get rid of them till the end of February.
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nottinghamcity
Member
Even the council themselves are trying to clear up the confusion. The electronic bus stop signs are displaying a message this morning that kangaroo cards can be used as usual.
It looks to me like a botched launch, causing the media to fill the gaps with guesswork.
edwin_m
Veteran Member
Yes, Nottingham and Notts are usually pretty good on public transport but someone seems to have dropped the ball this time. Having spent several years advertising a Citycard which is a NCT bus pass but may or may not also have extra benefits depending where you live and what you add to it, they now seem to want to replace that with a Robin Hood card which may or may not be worthwhile as a NCT bus pass.
I'm in London at present. Have the ticket machines that randomly appeared recently advertising Citycard top-ups now started advertising Robin Hood card instead?
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Yeah - I bought/topped up my Robin Hood from one of them, seems to be the only service they offer now (although I guess tapping a City Card might load some different menus).
RobinHood logos on the side too.
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