Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Or maybe we could stop all the fragmentation and just charge a reasonable Off Peak fare? Advances on a half hour journey with many trains per hour are a laughable idea.
Or maybe we could stop all the fragmentation and just charge a reasonable Off Peak fare? Advances on a half hour journey with many trains per hour are a laughable idea.
Only the hourly TPE 185s running non-stop manage a journey time close to the 30 minutes you mention and even then it's closer to 35. The semi-fast services (whether they are Northern 319s via Chat Moss or EMT 158s or TPE 185s via Warrington) take 45-50 minutes to get from Manchester to Liverpool.
Splitting hairs; it still makes no sense whatsoever for local journeys with 5+ TPH.
Are TPE the flow owner? If so it was of a time when they only operated one train per hour, since the Newcastle train has only been going about a year or so.
What price (single/return) would you propose the fares be?Or maybe we could stop all the fragmentation and just charge a reasonable Off Peak fare? Advances on a half hour journey with many trains per hour are a laughable idea.
What price (single/return) would you propose the fares be?
Lose the advances and you lose passengers.I don't know, as I don't know what they are now. Lose the Advances and make a small reduction in walk ups to be revenue neutral would do.
Because the train is faster and more comfortable. Why take a slow, cramped bus when the train is reasonably priced?
There's no real difference in journey time between the rail semi-fasts and the express coaches. While if your actual journey is Salford to Liverpool the coach is faster. On the coach you are guaranteed a seat if you're sold a ticket, something the rail operators can't guarantee.
TPE and EMT offer seat reservations. If it bothers you, reserve one, otherwise don't make that point without making the counter-point that when it's full, it's full - best start walking.
TPE set the non-operator specific fares for Liverpool to Manchester, they also do for Manchester to Sheffield. I wonder if TPE became the fare setter as they were only operator to provide 1st class accommodation, meaning it wouldn't have made sense for Central (prior to EMT) or Northern to set the 1st class fares when they didn't offer 1st class.
Only the hourly TPE 185s running non-stop manage a journey time close to the 30 minutes you mention and even then it's closer to 35. The semi-fast services (whether they are Northern 319s via Chat Moss or EMT 158s or TPE 185s via Warrington) take 45-50 minutes to get from Manchester to Liverpool.
And coaches can break down so you don't get on at all rather than being allowed to stand.
Another group of passengers to hit for 3 or 4 times what they paid on the train and get loads of aggro off as well as people who've paid 3 quid for a journey rarely like being charged another 12 as on this route they seem uniquely unable to stick to their booked trains. 6 months on from the OP I'm still hitting anywhere up to double figures of people per journey who've boarded my fast rather than the Northern stopper.
But no, the TOCs don't see it that way, it's just more non-ORCATS divisible pocket money to them.
But no, the TOCs don't see it that way, it's just more non-ORCATS divisible pocket money to them.
But it isn't, because of the connections bit. P
Personally, I think it would be easier if counted places reservations were added to all services (just using 99999 at the relevant full single fare if the TOC doesn't want to quota control them) and thus the entire intended itinerary is printed on the new style ticket.
6 months on from the OP I'm still hitting anywhere up to double figures of people per journey who've boarded my fast rather than the Northern stopper.
One advantage of a move to e-ticketing, as I have proposed before is that ORCATS could be abolished, with the actual TOCs used getting a proportional share of any walk up fare based on what the actual passenger did. That would also motivate the TOC to do adequate ticket checks, because without that they would perhaps get nowt.
How would that work in terms of a counted place having a value of 99999? I don't quite understand this. Would the price not be the existing price of the [TOC]&Connctions Advance ticket, with £0.00 being printed on the reservation ticket for those tickets printed old style. Or do you mean having 99999 "counted place spaces on each train if they don't want to really control it? If so, where os using the relivant full single fare if its an advance come in?
Sorry Neil, I'm not the best informed clearly but would like to learn
Yes, I meant using 999999 (or whatever the max is) counted places. For the fare I meant to use the relevant Single fare if it was not possible to stop the Advances going on sale - thus meaning they would never be sold as there would be no discount - though if they can be stopped from being sold that would be better.
But it isn't, because of the connections bit. Personally, I think it would be easier if counted places reservations were added to all services (just using 99999 at the relevant full single fare if the TOC doesn't want to quota control them) and thus the entire intended itinerary is printed on the new style ticket. That would be a benefit to the vast majority of passengers even if it would remove flexibility very slightly.