Storm Frank: impact on West Coast and Highland Mainlines

[47271]

Lamington did have a station, I'm not sure when exactly it closed, the site is just off the B7055 and to the north of the crossing of the Clyde that's causing us so much trouble. The viaduct is very close to and easily seen from the A702, the main link from Edinburgh to the M74 motorway.

I'm annoyed by the lack of accuracy too, but I suppose the point about Lockerbie is that passengers cannot travel north beyond that station. If they said 'just north of Abington, where there are sidings and points', then people would be demanding that they build a temporary station there. In fact, someone may come along in this forum and do exactly that shortly... only joking

 

[atillathehunn]

Can someone clear up definitively whether or not the line is open?

I have to travel to Edinburgh next week, probably a couple of times. At the moment the prices on the plane are very reasonable but I would prefer the train.

NRE is saying end of January, but is contradictory to what someone wrote above.

Edit: RTT implies it is open. http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y80870/2016/01/04/advanced various TPEX trains shown as running.

 

[najaB]

Can someone clear up definitively whether or not the line is open?

It is currently shut, and expected to remain so until February 1st. There is a possibility that it may partially open before then depending on the detail of the repairs that are required.

 

[atillathehunn]

It is currently shut, and expected to remain so until February 1st. There is a possibility that it may partially open before then depending on the detail of the repairs that are required.

Thank you NajaB. I will book the plane. Are these TPEX trains creeping through very slowly? Or are they somehow diverted?

 

[Mag_seven]

Can someone clear up definitively whether or not the line is open?

I have to travel to Edinburgh next week, probably a couple of times. At the moment the prices on the plane are very reasonable but I would prefer the train.

NRE is saying end of January, but is contradictory to what someone wrote above.

Edit: RTT implies it is open. http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y80870/2016/01/04/advanced various TPEX trains shown as running.

The line is closed - RTT shows TPEX trains starting/terminating at Carlisle or Lockerbie.
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Internal message from FTPE says that the line has reopened despite earlier reports it was expected to be shut till the end of the month

Someone in FTPE has got their facts wrong then - the line is closed.

 

[atillathehunn]

The line is closed - RTT shows TPEX trains starting/terminating at Carlisle or Lockerbie.
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Someone in FTPE has got their facts wrong then - the line is closed.

Thank you. I appreciate this being clarified.

 

[PHILIPE]

Can someone clear up definitively whether or not the line is open?

I have to travel to Edinburgh next week, probably a couple of times. At the moment the prices on the plane are very reasonable but I would prefer the train.

NRE is saying end of January, but is contradictory to what someone wrote above.

Edit: RTT implies it is open. http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y80870/2016/01/04/advanced various TPEX trains shown as running.

Day to day last minute alterations are being made to the schedules to encompass the closure and Train Planning staff are probably working flat out to do this. Things can take time to process and they probably haven't got round to cancelling them off yet.

 

[edwin_m]

My AA routefinder (the road is almost parallel to the railway ) shows the two places(Lamington and Lockerbie) as being about 39 miles apart. I just want the railways in general to give out the correct information !! So there is no station at Lamington , but given that the WCML crosses THE River Clyde there I would say it is a significant location and we , the public, should know this... we do need to be informed in these ties of social media. Thats my rant over !!!

I reckon it is only one of six places where the WCML crosses the Clyde:
- Elvanfoot (though it may be the Daer Water here - OS map is not clear where the name changes)
- Crawford
- Lamington
- Just south of Carstairs triangle
- Uddingston
- Approach to Glasgow Central

 

[BRX]

Despite its mention in the thread title, the closure on the Highland Main Line seems to have been forgotten in this discussion!

The line remains closed between Perth and Aviemore, with bustitution between Perth and Inverness for anyone travelling the length of the line. Replacing such a large chunk with buses (instead of just the section between Perth and Pitlochry) has lead me to decide to travel via Aberdeen instead, even though it adds an hour or more to the journey time.

Shame the Highland Chieftain isn't being diverted via Aberdeen like the sleepers are. I think a lot of people travelling between London and Inverness would prefer that to getting on and off buses...but I have no idea what the practical difficulties of doing that would be.

 

[HowardGWR]

Despite its mention in the thread title, the closure on the Highland Main Line seems to have been forgotten in this discussion!

The line remains closed between Perth and Aviemore, with bustitution between Perth and Inverness for anyone travelling the length of the line.

There have been reports in Scottish news media but, same as with Lamington, hardly anything in south, let alone advice for their readers and not a fat lot from the TOCs or NR.

I made certain derogatory comments about our press, but I think my new year celebrations/holiday remarks may have been nearer the mark than I really thought.

 

[amcluesent]

Virgin Trains latest after viaduct closure at Lamington -

 

[jopsuk]

Shame the Highland Chieftain isn't being diverted via Aberdeen like the sleepers are. I think a lot of people travelling between London and Inverness would prefer that to getting on and off buses...but I have no idea what the practical difficulties of doing that would be.

The extra 80 miles* (you're not going to cut out the Perth, Gleneagles, Stirling and Falkirk stops are you?) would add 90-120 minutes or so of journey time, messing immensely with the staffing of the train.

And you'd have to find paths on the route too.

Much less of an issue with the sleeper

*if I;ve got my calculations right?'

 

[AndrewE]

Again, absoulute silence on the (lack of any) Virgin advice or provision for passengers they would have conveyed to Edinburgh from Crewe or Warrington...

 

[dave87016]

Despite my earlier post about the internal message from FTPE it is correct what another poster said in someone at FTPE got it wrong ( not me).

Latest update Network rail said at 21:00pm tonight that the line will NOT open in January

 

[Class 170101]

NRES does advise people to leave trains at Carlisle for buses to Edinburgh - its in the TPE section though.
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Day to day last minute alterations are being made to the schedules to encompass the closure and Train Planning staff are probably working flat out to do this. Things can take time to process and they probably haven't got round to cancelling them off yet.

Control will also be busy putting in the schedules too looking at some of the VSTP schedules on Real Time Trains

 

[AndrewE]

NRES does advise people to leave trains at Carlisle for buses to Edinburgh - its in the TPE section though.
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Control will also be busy putting in the schedules too looking at some of the VSTP schedules on Real Time Trains

NRE actually says TPE passengers will be bussed off Manchester trains. Zilch about Virgin passengers from S of Wigan.
I don't doubt that operators and planners are working their socks off and doing their very best, and also that by hanging round at Carlisle you could force your way onto a FTP coach. However with people's (bad) experiences of one company-only advance tickets etc. it won't build confidence in "the railway."

 

[snowball]

I reckon it is only one of six places where the WCML crosses the Clyde:
- Elvanfoot (though it may be the Daer Water here - OS map is not clear where the name changes)

It's definitely the Clyde at Elvanfoot. The 1:50000 map says River Clyde in big letters about a mile to the south of the bridge, and the 1:25000 map says Clydesdale in even bigger letters in much the same place.. It appears that the source of the Clyde is the confluence of Dear Water and Portrail Water about two miles south of the railway.

http://streetmap.co.uk/map.srf?X=295900&Y=615500&A=Y&Z=120

 

[najaB]

Shame the Highland Chieftain isn't being diverted via Aberdeen like the sleepers are. I think a lot of people travelling between London and Inverness would prefer that to getting on and off buses...but I have no idea what the practical difficulties of doing that would be.

I know that GR crews sign Perth-Aberdeen but no idea if they sign Aberdeen-Inverness. Aslo, Perth-Aberdeen-Inverness would add at least two hours onto an already very long journey and mess up the arrival time back to The Cross.

 

[BRX]

I believe the Inverness HST has been diverted via Aberdeen in the past. But not sure how recently. May have been pre privatisation with more flexible staffing arrangements.

I suppose I was thinking it could just run from Dundee direct to Edinburgh to minimise the extra time impact but it's true that this would leave Perth and Stirling without their direct London link.

No idea how the numbers of passengers joining at these stations compares with numbers getting on at Inverness.

 

[Blindtraveler]

XC at Edinburgh saying they are today only accepting Route Any Permitted tickets, no VTWC or TPE only valid on their trains now. VTEC still taking these.

 

[Failed Unit]

The HST via Elgin needs to conducted by Scotrail crews. The only times I am aware of it happening in the past is to recover the set. (As would have probably already happened if the HST hadn't made it south).

I am sure that the hours of the driver are not sufficient to do the daily diversion.

 

[Gerald Fiennes]

I notice that NRE plus VT's site were reporting all over the weekend that there was not necessarily ticket acceptance on XC, implicitly including all AP fares as well as dedicated. Clearly XC were pretty full with people coming back down South but how does this work: can individual TOCs choose which tickets to accept during such a major disruption as this and isn't there an overall ATOC code of practice they have to adhere to?

 

[najaB]

Can individual TOCs choose which tickets to accept during such a major disruption as this and isn't there an overall ATOC code of practice they have to adhere to?

Have a look at this post by kwvr45, it gives a bit of the background.

 

[QueensCurve]

... then people would be demanding that they build a temporary station there. In fact, someone may come along in this forum and do exactly that shortly... only joking

Jest ye not Cumbria County Council has put in place a footpath bypassing the Storm Desmond damage to the A591 so that schoolchildren can walk between bus shuttles going as far as they can.

https://twitter.com/CumbriaCC/status/683921427020574720

 

[Carntyne]

I didn't think TOCs has a choice during CSL2 situations, it doesn't seem to still in that mode though as the temp timetable is running. Could anyone confirm?

 

[QueensCurve]

It's definitely the Clyde at Elvanfoot. The 1:50000 map says River Clyde in big letters about a mile to the south of the bridge, and the 1:25000 map says Clydesdale in even bigger letters in much the same place.. It appears that the source of the Clyde is the confluence of Dear Water and Portrail Water about two miles south of the railway.

http://streetmap.co.uk/map.srf?X=295900&Y=615500&A=Y&Z=120

Essentially the route follows the Clyde Valley (Strathclyde???) North of Beattock summit.

 

[edwin_m]

Jest ye not Cumbria County Council has put in place a footpath bypassing the Storm Desmond damage to the A591 so that schoolchildren can walk between bus shuttles going as far as they can.

https://twitter.com/CumbriaCC/status/683921427020574720

On one occasion when a bridge was damaged too badly to carry trains, BR built a platform each end and a walkway between them. Somewhere near Welshpool I think.

 

[47271]

I believe the Inverness HST has been diverted via Aberdeen in the past. But not sure how recently. May have been pre privatisation with more flexible staffing arrangements.

I suppose I was thinking it could just run from Dundee direct to Edinburgh to minimise the extra time impact but it's true that this would leave Perth and Stirling without their direct London link.

No idea how the numbers of passengers joining at these stations compares with numbers getting on at Inverness.

I did go on a Sunday diverted London HST from Inverness to Aberdeen as a kid, it may even coincidentally have been the first time ever that one travelled the line going by my vague recollection of the chat around me.

This would've been the mid eighties mind....

Returning to the subject of the present difficulties at Dalguise, I haven't seen any more pictures covering progress. They're still saying shut until Sunday, but considering the current state of the Tay in Perth I'd be surprised if they've been able to do much with it since New Year. Maybe others have clearer info?

 

[Philip Phlopp]

I did go on a Sunday diverted London HST from Inverness to Aberdeen as a kid, it may even coincidentally have been the first time ever that one travelled the line going by my vague recollection of the chat around me.

This would've been the mid eighties mind....

Returning to the subject of the present difficulties at Dalguise, I haven't seen any more pictures covering progress. They're still saying shut until Sunday, but considering the current state of the Tay in Perth I'd be surprised if they've been able to do much with it since New Year. Maybe others have clearer info?

Site flooded again yesterday, from what I've been told. Plant is on site however, so not a total dead loss.

 

[Millisle]

Does anyone know why Scotrail say they cannot run to Pitlochry and bus to Perth from there? This has been done in similar circumstances before. I was on one of the buses.
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Essentially the route follows the Clyde Valley (Strathclyde???) North of Beattock summit.

Clydesdale. Strathclyde is a broader and vaguer term.