Flying Scotsman

[coxxy]

Hoping for a bit of help guys.. I understad the Flying Scotsman is running a special service from Manchester Vic on 23rd januaray. I know my dad loves the scotsman and is very keen to see it again but due to his disability is unable to go in to Manchester or travel on the special.

My question releates to ho will it get from the ELR to Victoria? I am presuming it will travel from the ELR to Vic on the Saturday morning? If so what route would it take? Hoping i may be able to atleast take him to a station that it may pass through etc.

Thanks for your help

 

[sng7]

If you kepp an eye on http://www.uksteam.info/ they normally have the times and routes for steam locomotive moves when they are finalised. another good bet would be to look at Real Time Trains a day or two before the working.

 

[Adam0984]

Just be aware platforms along the whole route will be extremely busy so if you have a wheelchair it is advised to be there early

 

[alexl92]

I hadn't considered this myself but some punter on facebook (who may know nothing for all I know) had suggested that the schedule for Flying Scotsman may not allow for adequate running in prior to its first major railtour which includes an assault on Shap, and seemed to feel that it was too much, too soon.

Is that a legitimate concern? I would expect that Rileys and WCR and the NRM would have been very careful in making sure that the return was properly managed - surely if Shap was gonna pose a risk, they wouldn't have included it? I'm more inclined to believe that than the bloke on social media, but equally I'm interested to hear people's thoughts.

 

[sprinterguy]

The route from the East Lancs Railway would be Bury - Castleton South Junction - Manchester Victoria (running through Mills Hill and Moston stations on the national network proper). Note though that if Scotsman is starting from the ELR that morning then it will be in darkness, as the tour is due to depart Manchester Victoria at around 07:00.

 

[sprinterguy]

Note that, according to the Railway Touring Company page for this tour, the route has now been revised so that the train will now run outbound via the Settle & Carlisle, returning via the WCML. This avoids the more gruelling approach to Shap from the south, but will now pit the loco against the "long drag".

Certainly a thorough test of the locos abilities after such a protracted and high profile period of ill health!
http://www.railwaytouring.net/uk-day-trips/winter-cumbrian-mountain-express-23-01-16

 

[doningtonphil]

Well it will be interesting to see when it can actually go anywhere without the support of a diesel or Black 5

 

[Hamrio]

Great to hear that the ‘Flying Scotsman’ will soon be gracing our railway again.

Good to see it making such news coverage, hopefully it will get more people interested in heritage railways. Could be an idea to use this for building general interest.

 

[cjmillsnun]

To be honest I'd rather she wasn't on the rails purely because she is such an icon.

Also the cost and time of the restoration could probably have covered the cost and time of an exact replica (Tornado cost 3m in 2008). Money that NRM could've better spent elsewhere.

 

[work-traveller]

Noting all the refits etc over the years, it would be interesting (to a small degree) to know the percentage of original parts left in the grand old engine.

 

[DarloRich]

To be honest I'd rather she wasn't on the rails purely because she is such an icon.

Also the cost and time of the restoration could probably have covered the cost and time of an exact replica (Tornado cost 3m in 2008). Money that NRM could've better spent elsewhere.

they will get the money back and then some!

 

[Monty]

Noting all the refits etc over the years, it would be interesting (to a small degree) to know the percentage of original parts left in the grand old engine.

Parts of the frame and the footplate and that's about it tbh.

 

[zn1]

how long i wonder before the thing needs another million+ spending on it. dont burn coal to operate the loco - just bundles of tenners - it will be cheaper !!

 

[sprinterguy]

The level of media furore surrounding this event has been quite astonishing. It was on Sky News this afternoon, and everything. It's evident that the locomotives' accolade of "the world's most famous steam loco" is well-founded when you witness how much press coverage has been lavished on it today, whatever your opinions of the loco itself and it's recent contentious overhaul.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Parts of the frame and the footplate and that's about it tbh.

Well, it's been reunited with the boiler which it carried following overhaul at Doncaster in 1965/6 until 1978, although of course the boilers were swapped throughout the working lives of the locos and obviously "Flying Scotsman" would not be fitted with the (lower pressure) boiler it was delivered with as an A1! Plus the firebox fitted to the boiler that it now carries (built in 1944) is completely new.

 

[marks87]

To be honest I'd rather she wasn't on the rails purely because she is such an icon.

Also the cost and time of the restoration could probably have covered the cost and time of an exact replica (Tornado cost 3m in 2008). Money that NRM could've better spent elsewhere.

A replica is hardly going to have the same appeal as the original.

 

[AndrewE]

they will get the money back and then some!

I doubt they will ever recover a tiny fraction of the money spent. It should have been stuffed and mounted (to preserve it in whatever version people wanted to believe it had got to) and the money saved for the maintenance of their locos that are runners.
Probably not appropriate for a museum to be spending millions building replicas when there are so many existing locos around, except maybe smallish low-tech machines like locomotion etc.

 

[DarloRich]

I doubt they will ever recover a tiny fraction of the money spent. It should have been stuffed and mounted (to preserve it in whatever version people wanted to believe it had got to) and the money saved for the maintenance of their locos that are runners.
Probably not appropriate for a museum to be spending millions building replicas when there are so many existing locos around, except maybe smallish low-tech machines like locomotion etc.

They will get back every single penny. The locomotive is an icon to real people. They will pay a great deal to travel behind it, tourists will pay a great deal to travel behind it. NRM will be milking this for all they can and who can blame them?

examples:

Gala dinner to welcome Scotsman back to York: £80

Photographic sessions £25/ £35

Free access session £15

28 mainline runs in 2016

Appearances at NYMR & SVR in 2016 with lucrative hire income!


First trip 23rd January 2016: £95 per ticket which I would suggest will be about average and is sold out


no they aren't going to make any money :roll:

 

[Ploughman]

AS an indication,the NYMR event is sold out.
http://www.nymr.co.uk/special-events/flying-scotsman/

 

[amarshe]

£2.3m to buy and another £2.6m to refurbish (close to £5m in total).

Badly managed by the NRM (who to be fair didn't really know how to manage it)

http://www.webcitation.org/6C4X3YBx3

 

[AndrewE]

They will get back every single penny. The locomotive is an icon to real people. They will pay a great deal to travel behind it, tourists will pay a great deal to travel behind it. NRM will be milking this for all they can and who can blame them?

examples:

Gala dinner to welcome Scotsman back to York: £80

Photographic sessions £25/ £35

Free access session £15

28 mainline runs in 2016

Appearances at NYMR & SVR in 2016 with lucrative hire income!


First trip 23rd January 2016: £95 per ticket which I would suggest will be about average and is sold out


no they aren't going to make any money :roll:

How much of this will go to the loco owner? (Roll eyes) What have we heard about track acccess charges (or whatever you call it to buy a path nowadays) stock hire costs, staff costs, food and catering costs, etc. The only sure earner will be when it is on hire to a heritage railway. I don't remember any other locos, no matter how "iconic," ever being bought as an investment (i.e. as a business opportunity) and producing a good income stream.

 

[doningtonphil]

Some excellent news coverage today.

The Guardian website showing a video where the cameraman had no clue which loco he was supposed to be filming (shots cut just as the coupled up scotsman comes into shot)

BBC interviews a bloke on the footplate with the caption 'Ian Riley - driver'. No note of him being the bloke the company that restored it is named after and who gas built up one of the few engineering companies capable of carrying out the work.

And, of course, frequent reference to THE Flying Scotsman.

 

[DarloRich]

How much of this will go to the loco owner? (Roll eyes) What have we heard about track acccess charges (or whatever you call it to buy a path nowadays) stock hire costs, staff costs, food and catering costs, etc. The only sure earner will be when it is on hire to a heritage railway. I don't remember any other locos, no matter how "iconic," ever being bought as an investment (i.e. as a business opportunity) and producing a good income stream.

of COURSE not all of the money will go to the owner :roll: but a good percentage will

However if the NRM are working their asset they will recover the money AND the NRM must have a business plan which sets out when they will recover their investment, especially after all of the trouble with the overhaul.

 

[marks87]

I'd argue it's not just about the money. Part of NRM's remit should be to secure the future of historically significant locomotives such as The Flying Scotsman, even if the investment isn't fully returned in cash.

And remember, they now have an effectively priceless asset on the balance sheet.

 

[Altfish]

I'd argue it's not just about the money. Part of NRM's remit should be to secure the future of historically significant locomotives such as The Flying Scotsman, even if the investment isn't fully returned in cash.

And remember, they now have an effectively priceless asset on the balance sheet.

Spot on, just look at the numbers turner up to see it, not all rail enthusiasts like us.
Does Big Ben make a profit? But we still spend millions on its upkeep.

 

[70014IronDuke]

I'd argue it's not just about the money. Part of NRM's remit should be to secure the future of historically significant locomotives such as The Flying Scotsman, even if the investment isn't fully returned in cash.

And remember, they now have an effectively priceless asset on the balance sheet.

Well, GBP 5m, with interest and amortisation, is an awful lot of money, and I'm not sure an accountant would call the asset 'priceless' - but in this case I'd tend to agree with you - bar the use of the definite article.

Certainly I'd put the 'value' of an engine in steam and working as 1000 times that of a stuffed locomotive. An 8 year old kid will look at the stuffed job and shrug his/her shoulders - but seeing Flying Scotsman start a train, or pass at 75 mph is a totally different experience, one that could be life changing (as I'm sure has happened to many in here).

and it's not just about trains as such - it's about education in physics, engineering, social history. Heck, if it helps some kids understand trains don't have steering wheels, it's a success.

 

[Late Trains uk]

Consider it a ''Red Arrow'' of the railway. They cost a lot of money but promote the RAF and are used as a tool to encourage future generations into joining up.
Working for the Railways for many will never be as glamorous or exiting as being a fighter pilot. But if Flying Scotsman encourages talented engineers of the future to give the railways a thought then it would be worth it. Who knows they might develop something that British Rail companies could export again.

 

[CosherB]

Well, GBP 5m, with interest and amortisation, is an awful lot of money, and I'm not sure an accountant would call the asset 'priceless' - but in this case I'd tend to agree with you - bar the use of the definite article.

If life was driven by accountants, it would be very boring!

 

[341o2]

I watched the BBC news coverage, and it was claimed that this loco was the first to achieve an authenticated speed of 100mph. Is this correct?

 

[sprinterguy]

I watched the BBC news coverage, and it was claimed that this loco was the first to achieve an authenticated speed of 100mph. Is this correct?

First authenticated, yes: The oft quoted record of the Great Western crowd never was.

 

[Oswyntail]

The oft quoted record of the Great Western crowd never was.

Doesn't mean it wasn't true, though