Flying Scotsman

[DarloRich]

First authenticated, yes: The oft quoted record of the Great Western crowd never was.

Any files kno them western things were rubbish - the best kettle stuff comes from Donny or Darlo!

 

[Hamrio]

The Flying Scotsman was ‘running in’ on the East Lancs Railway last weekend and the coming weekend. Assuming they solve the brakes issue, and no further problems are found, it is due to move up to Carnforth next week for its loaded test run (they run a full length train without passengers round the loop Carnforth - Hellifield - Blackburn - Preston - Carnforth). If all is well, it will operate the Winter Cumbrian Mountain Express on Saturday week.

There is a caviate though. The 'Office of Rail and Road' (ORR) have imposed a deadline of 20th January for consultation on potential withdrawl of the West Coast Rail operating licence. Since WCR operate about 80% of the steam hauled trips on the mainline, loss of the licence would seriously cut back mainline steam.

 

[doningtonphil]

Assuming they solve the brakes issue, and no further problems are found, it is due to move up to Carnforth next week for its loaded test run.

What are the brake issues?

 

[455driver]

Just be aware platforms along the whole route will be extremely busy so if you have a wheelchair it is advised to be there early

Or just barge through the crowd like some users do!


This post is not meant to be taken entirely seriously!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

What are the brake issues?

Its air compressor doesn't want to compress the air, a very tiny issue bearing in mind the work carried out.

 

[Oswyntail]

... a very tiny issue bearing in mind the work carried out.

"For want of a nail....."

 

[Hamrio]

I don't know. The report just stated 'brake issues', which was why there was a second steam or diesel loco attached when it made its first runs last weekend. Hopefully they have been solved. Last weekend was a high profile 'launch', so presumably they decided to go ahead even if things weren't quite right.

 

[MackaDTW]

I understand the Flying Scotsman will be making a short trip north of the border in May this year. Does anyone know how long it is since it was last there or when it was last up here?

Thanks

 

[Signalmans Eye]

Hoping for a bit of help guys.. I understad the Flying Scotsman is running a special service from Manchester Vic on 23rd januaray. I know my dad loves the scotsman and is very keen to see it again but due to his disability is unable to go in to Manchester or travel on the special.

My question releates to ho will it get from the ELR to Victoria? I am presuming it will travel from the ELR to Vic on the Saturday morning? If so what route would it take? Hoping i may be able to atleast take him to a station that it may pass through etc.

Thanks for your help

Tuesday 19th Scotsman due to go to carnforth eng plus coach depart Castleton 14.30ish ,Manchester vic 15.20hrs I would be there 30min before.

60103 to Carnforth possibly running 24hrs later according to uksteam.

 

[coxxy]

Thanks very much everyone! Massive help!

As it happens he's not in a wheelchair... Would probably be a bit quicker if he was though! lol

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

There was a good picture of the Scotsman travelling in the snowy weather on TV last night. I presume on the East Lancs Railway? How is she doing running wise at the moment?

 

[46223]

Flying Scotsman's move to Carnforth and test run this week now cancelled. 23 January CME now 44871 & 45407.

 

[leomartin125]

Any reason why it is cancelled today? Issues perhaps?

 

[thejuggler]

Brakes issue still not resolved.

 

[TBirdFrank]

So was it merely train heat that required the 31 last weekend??

 

[alexl92]

So was it merely train heat that required the 31 last weekend??

I thought it was for brake compatibility, same as the black 5?

 

[doningtonphil]

The problem is, the brake installation is always the last thing that can be tested. The compressor needs to be fully operational, AWS and TPWS need to be installed. The boiler needs to be creating enough steam for the compressor etc etc

Only then can the brake tests start. Any delays with the above inevitably mean the time left for brake testing is seriously reduced. As part of thee overhaul every pipe connection will have been remade, more than 40 components will have been overhauled and refitted. And you hope they all work together when the driver moves the brake handles.

Hopefully any issues are on the brink of being resolved and the paperwork signed off. That can be passed to the VAB to progress their paperwork.

 

[TBirdFrank]

We know that over the first weekend that 60103 had no working air brakes. Braking was provided by the 31 or 5407.

Road transport law would never allow a vehicle with no brakes to be used legally so what is different on a railway? Equally why could not components be tested with an external air supply? Compressors are readily available

Scotsman then works one train alone and then the whole weekend with assistance for ETH purposes - so we are told - but when it comes to main line work it's brakes that are at fault again.

This all smacks of timescales being imposed rather than the loco being allowed to be properly finished.

It is far better that we know so this sort of thing doesn't occur again.

 

[Chrisyd]

On the 1400 on Sunday 17th the ELR host on the train told us the reason for the 31 was because Flying Scotsman's brakes could stop her, but not the 8 carriages attached.

 

[doningtonphil]

Tbird.

You make a point that a road vehicle would not be allowed on the public highway without adequate brakes. However you can drive your car on your own private road with no brakes at all if you so desire.

Locomotives are not allowed on to the 'public railway' without adequate brakes. However I would think a 'private railway' such as the ELR is a different railway where different restrictions can be imposed (speed/alternative braking provision) enabling a train to operate safely in the environment that it is in.

Regarding dates being imposed. Any big project will have a completion date. Any contractor will try to ensure there is enough room in the contract for snagging issues. With the best will in the world those targets are not always met.

At the same time, the NRM can't afford to wait until a 100% loco emerges from the works before MAKING PLANS, so will have had plans for the working of the loco. From what i understand, all of these plans have been made with a clear proviso that alternative motive power may be required.

 

[Asterix2012]

The locomotive will have vacuum or steam brakes.
Air brake will be train only unless they have radically altered the braking system

 

[The Lad]

I 'think' the problem was that scotty couldn't make its own air (which is needed to control but not actually operate the braking system). The ELR was using Vacuum brakes and Steam Heat.

 

[TBirdFrank]

At the risk of being called a bed wetter and window licker by people who should know better the matter is still that the 60103's tender brakes were inoperative even after 60103's own air pump was functional - hence this week's ongoing problems.

It has been suggested that the tender brakes could not have been set up without 60103 being in steam so that this problem could only be addressed week commencing 10th January.

With all due respect I am not sure why this should be the case.

Compressed air is not the exclusive province of one steam loco and surely a test rig brake pillar could have been set up and the brakes checked when the tender was completed some long time ago before the loco main frame problems intervened.

That being the case once loco and tender were re-connected all that should have been necessary should have been adjustment - unless someone is going to come along saying that the tender brakes were overhauled and then mysteriously ceased to function at the point of release to traffic.

The failed brakes led directly to the grotesque timetable delays on the ELR for the four day return to traffic as the ELR only timetable single engine run rounds and now to the delay in its main line return, which itself must be in question following the example set by Vintage Trains yesterday in being more open and honest with the market than some operators, and not selling what they are not sure they deliver.

Congratulations to them for their honesty and open handed dealing.

 

[E&W Lucas]

The locomotive will have vacuum or steam brakes.
Air brake will be train only unless they have radically altered the braking system

I think it's been modified like a couple of the other LNER pacifics, and has lost the vacuum brakes on the loco and tender, which have been replaced by a straight air system. The automatic air brake (train air brake) is the main braking system, with the vacuum brake (if operational) controlled via a proportional valve off it. Similar set up to many first generation diesels.

Any sort of defect on the braking system, and it's prohibited from entering mainline service.

 

[TBirdFrank]

Yes - that's correct.

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

Good morning,

I have booked the daytime trip on 01 June with the Scotsman both to get the loco and the routes/track which is a bit unusual, going from London Victoria to Oxford, then via the new link to the Chiltern routes and back to Victoria.

I see though from a publication on the net this week, that the passenger services from Oxford Mainline station to MYB etc., won't now start until December instead of this spring, owing to various delays.

I wonder therefore if track is laid there yet or not and if so, can this special train and other test trains traverse the new section, or if this trip will have to be changed etc which would be a shame? I was looking forward to travelling on the main line with Scotsman, I think other trips are probably fully booked in the South of the country.

 

[455driver]

Good morning,

I have booked the daytime trip on 01 June with the Scotsman both to get the loco and the routes/track which is a bit unusual, going from London Victoria to Oxford, then via the new link to the Chiltern routes and back to Victoria.

I see though from a publication on the net this week, that the passenger services from Oxford Mainline station to MYB etc., won't now start until December instead of this spring, owing to various delays.

I wonder therefore if track is laid there yet or not and if so, can this special train and other test trains traverse the new section, or if this trip will have to be changed etc which would be a shame? I was looking forward to travelling on the main line with Scotsman, I think other trips are probably fully booked in the South of the country.

I don't think the track is down yet, if it is physically 'down' it wont be up to passenger carrying standards.

Of course what it will be like in 5 months time is anyones guess.