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Sussex commuters sentenced after bogus compensation claims

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feline1

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Annual season ticket rates take into account holiday periods - i.e. non-travelling (equivalent of four weeks I think) and weekends in their price calculation.

They are not advertised to passengers as such, though.
The typical spin put on it by TOCs is "buy an annual season ticket, and you get 12 months for the price of 11 monthly season tickets!" - which sounds like good value until you realise we have a statutory entitlement to 28 annual leave in the country, when they wouldn't be travelling anyway. :p
 
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RichardN

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Annual season ticket rates take into account holiday periods - i.e. non-travelling (equivalent of four weeks I think) and weekends in their price calculation.

I've just looked and Southern has apparently improved delay repay for season ticket holders. I take back what I said about shabby treatment as it is much more reasonable now.

http://www.southernrailway.com/download/35653.8/passengers-charter-january-2016/

current Southern passengers charter said:
If you have a season ticket you can claim under Delay
Repay. The table below shows the value of each journey
you make. Your compensation will be 50% or 100% of this
value as appropriate.
Season ticket type Value of each single journey
Annual 1/464 x total ticket price
Quarterly 1/120 x total ticket price
Monthly 1/40 x total ticket price
Weekly 1/10 total ticket price

(The annual value used to be 520 weekday journeys + 26 weekend journeys, so 1/546 of the ticket price)

The old passengers charter (Dec 2013) said:
https://web.archive.org/web/2013122...ilway.com/download/3139.5/passengers-charter/

Delay repay works in the same way for season ticket holders, with the ‘fare paid’ calculated using the proportional daily cost of the
ticket held.
• Annual tickets – compensation is calculated on the basis of one return journey being made every Monday to Friday and one return
journey being made at the weekend one week in four. This gives 520 journeys on Mondays to Fridays and 26 journeys at weekends.
Therefore we divide the fare paid by 546 for the refund value per journey.
• Quarterly, Monthly and Weekly tickets are calculated pro-rata on the same basis as an annual ticket.

http://www.theargus.co.uk/news/1176...ove_compensation_payments_following_petition/ refers to the change, but these are a 17% improvement, not 5% at least for annual season ticket holders.
 
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Deepgreen

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As with everything in life, the occasional claim will probably go undetected, but to end up with £3500 Delay Repay vouchers they must have been properly going some.

Southern's vouchers can be exchanged for cash at their ticket offices - that would have been a transaction worth watching!
 

reb0118

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.... which sounds like good value until you realise [that] we have a statutory entitlement to 28 [days?] annual leave in th[is] country, when they wouldn't be travelling anyway. :p

I take your point but it is theoretically possible that a person may be travelling on their annual leave - one example could be a Brighton to London season ticket holder travelling to Gatwick to catch a flight.

Annual leave is generally taken in four weekly blocks (or variations on a theme) with the "bank" holidays either as they happen or floating days. This is taken fully into consideration when pricing annual tickets.
 

jon0844

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They are not advertised to passengers as such, though.
The typical spin put on it by TOCs is "buy an annual season ticket, and you get 12 months for the price of 11 monthly season tickets!" - which sounds like good value until you realise we have a statutory entitlement to 28 annual leave in the country, when they wouldn't be travelling anyway. :p

It's 12 months for the price of 10 isn't it, if you get an annual. Some TOCs offer 12 for the price of 11 if they offer their own finance package (paying monthly and receiving only monthly tickets, in case you stop paying).

So it's not as bad - as long as you pay up front.
 

MikeWh

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It's 12 months for the price of 10 isn't it, if you get an annual. Some TOCs offer 12 for the price of 11 if they offer their own finance package (paying monthly and receiving only monthly tickets, in case you stop paying).

So it's not as bad - as long as you pay up front.

It's 10 and a bit. The annual is 40 weeklies whereas a monthly is 3.84 weeklies.
 

John Palmer

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Making the assumption that each fraudulent claim was accompanied by proof that the claimant held an annual season between Pulborough and London, and that £3,500 is an accurate assessment of the amount of compensation obtained by fraud in Martins' case, the implication of the newspaper reports is that his research revealed 470 occasions on which a Pulborough-London (or vice versa) train was at least 30 minutes late, and formed the basis of a fraudulent claim – obviously fewer delays required if the research revealed delays in excess of an hour.* I have seen nothing in the reports to indicate the length of the period over which these frauds were perpetrated, but if it was no more than, say, two years then it suggests that a 30+ minute delay on this route was occurring nearly every other weekday. Is Southern's punctuality record on this service really that bad?

*This is on the basis that each 30 minute delay qualifies for refund of 1/464th of the ticket price – which is, I think, the current regime. Using the December 2013 Southern Passengers Charter’s relevant fraction of 1/520th, the number of 30+ minute delays required to found a total claim of £3,500 rises to 527. This is on the basis of the annual season costing about £3,450. Seems likely some of these offences were committed under the old regime.
 

najaB

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...£3,500 is an accurate assessment of the amount of compensation obtained by fraud in Martins' case...
I don't think that the loss was necessarily £3500 as there may be victim surcharge and costs (other than court costs) included.
 

pemma

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Annual leave is generally taken in four weekly blocks (or variations on a theme) with the "bank" holidays either as they happen or floating days. This is taken fully into consideration when pricing annual tickets.

Of course the statutory requirement means the minimum for full time employees, some companies give extra leave to employees who've been there a while. The last Labour government changed the statutory requirement to 28 days including Bank Holidays so that people who have full time jobs which include working at the weekend instead of Mondays don't miss out.

I take your point but it is theoretically possible that a person may be travelling on their annual leave - one example could be a Brighton to London season ticket holder travelling to Gatwick to catch a flight.

Also with some season tickets you can legally make a different journey at weekends or during annual leave without purchasing a new ticket.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
It's 10 and a bit. The annual is 40 weeklies whereas a monthly is 3.84 weeklies.

Surely you mean 9 and a bit unless you mistyped the number of weeks?
 

furnessvale

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Making the assumption that each fraudulent claim was accompanied by proof that the claimant held an annual season between Pulborough and London, and that £3,500 is an accurate assessment of the amount of compensation obtained by fraud in Martins' case, the implication of the newspaper reports is that his research revealed 470 occasions on which a Pulborough-London (or vice versa) train was at least 30 minutes late, and formed the basis of a fraudulent claim – obviously fewer delays required if the research revealed delays in excess of an hour.* I have seen nothing in the reports to indicate the length of the period over which these frauds were perpetrated, but if it was no more than, say, two years then it suggests that a 30+ minute delay on this route was occurring nearly every other weekday. Is Southern's punctuality record on this service really that bad?

Selecting trains at any time, day or night, which is presumably why the travel pattern was so erratic as to arouse suspicion.
 

MikeWh

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The 40th week of this year is the first week of October, so it would be 9 and a bit months.

But a monthly only costs 3.84 times a weekly, not 4.3 or so.
 

sarahj

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Southern's vouchers can be exchanged for cash at their ticket offices - that would have been a transaction worth watching!

Folks doing this often use different ticket offices. I've mentioned before of the person that turned up at Seaford and exchanged a load for cash that emptied the ticket office of funds. The punter had never been seen before, turned up in a car with a woman who stayed in the car, got the cash then drove away. There are also people out there whose job it is to track those who overclaim. They have been known to follow them around, seeing what they were doing. So it's not all just CCTV. So if your over claiming, beware, that fellow commuter reading the metro could be tailing you.

Big sister is watching you.....;)
 

306024

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Amusingly someone got prosecuted on the GEML a while back when amongst other claims they claimed for delays on two particular journeys. Only snag was that the trains involved were travelling in opposite directions at the same time :roll: :lol:
 

Surreytraveller

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Of course the statutory requirement means the minimum for full time employees, some companies give extra leave to employees who've been there a while. The last Labour government changed the statutory requirement to 28 days including Bank Holidays so that people who have full time jobs which include working at the weekend instead of Mondays don't miss out.



Also with some season tickets you can legally make a different journey at weekends or during annual leave without purchasing a new ticket.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Surely you mean 9 and a bit unless you mistyped the number of weeks?

Was 10 months and 14 days when I used to work in a booking office.
 

island

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Folks doing this often use different ticket offices. I've mentioned before of the person that turned up at Seaford and exchanged a load for cash that emptied the ticket office of funds. The punter had never been seen before, turned up in a car with a woman who stayed in the car, got the cash then drove away.

Mustn't have had much cash in the office. The cashable vouchers I've had have said vouchers can only be exchanged to a maximum of £50 a day, or one voucher if it's worth over £50.
 

Busaholic

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There were people who used to try and make a living out of London Transport by claiming to fall from Routemaster buses every month or so. And not all of them were conductors.
 

sarahj

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It seems someone saw this court case and turned up at GTR HQ with a cheque for £375 for some delay repays they have mis-claimed for. :roll:
 

Chrisgr31

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I am not sure if the way Southen calculate delay repay now matches the way they calculate the season ticket in the first place. If the season ticket is priced on the basis you do 464 journeys a year then the delay repay should be as well or however many it is.

Personally I only claim for journeys I was on, or planned to be. Whilst I usually catch the same trains every day there are occasions I don't. Although I have had up to £300 delay repay in a year that included some East Cost and Cross Country. I reckon I usually get around £150 pa from Southern. So £3,500 os going some!
 

DaveNewcastle

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It seems someone saw this court case and turned up at GTR HQ with a cheque for £375 for some delay repays they have mis-claimed for. :roll:
It's good to hear that!

It's hard, if not impossible, to quantify the impact of a Court's sentence on society as a whole. Clearly there should be an impact, including an effective deterrence, and hopefully some retribution.
On a good day, there's also some glee at watching others crawl out of the woodwork while holding up their ill-gotten gains.
 

pitdiver

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When I worked for LUL in the booking offices I'm sure there were people who had all zone Travelcards claiming for delays anywhere on the Underground. They would come to the booking office window at Season Ticket renewal time with fist fulls or Customer Charter refund vouchers. I'm sure they never ever went on any service that was delayed.
 

Shempz

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I am not sure if the way Southen calculate delay repay now matches the way they calculate the season ticket in the first place. If the season ticket is priced on the basis you do 464 journeys a year then the delay repay should be as well or however many it is.

Personally I only claim for journeys I was on, or planned to be. Whilst I usually catch the same trains every day there are occasions I don't. Although I have had up to £300 delay repay in a year that included some East Cost and Cross Country. I reckon I usually get around £150 pa from Southern. So £3,500 os going some!


lol...you can always rely on the Uckfield line for a good £100+ per year.
I'm on East Grin now, and have only had 3 delay repays since August.
 
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