Yes, no real business case appears to exist for this, but then, critically, none of us are actually qualified to to make this judgement.
Some of us are.
There's no case.
Yes, no real business case appears to exist for this, but then, critically, none of us are actually qualified to to make this judgement.
Build it and they will come......
Just a slogan that some people are fond of repeating, but not necessarily a true one.Build it and they will come......
Build it and they will come......
... Personally I love Wales and have visited many times over the years. I just wish there were quicker ways to get around than single track roads so I would vote for new roads instead of new railways...
Build it and they will come......
Railways have always been an enabler for growth in villages and towns as less and less land becomes available for houses within cities where most of the jobs are.
Yes, no real business case appears to exist for this, but then, critically, none of use are actually qualified to to make this judgement.
Outside of the south of wales, investment in infrastructure in Wales is a joke. Nothing above a winding single carriageway from the M4 up to the A55, yet when something is mooted by politicians, it gets roundly criticised.
Considering this lack of investment convinces welsh MPs to approve this and re-opening was approved, would you support it and would you use it?
Conversely, if this money was available to spend elsewhere, where would you spend the money?
Personally I love Wales and have visited many times over the years. I just wish there were quicker ways to get around than single track roads so I would vote for new roads instead of new railways:
ie Dual Carriageways from
- Shrewsbury to Mallwyd and Aberystwyth (splitting at welshpool)
- and then dualling throughout of the A470 (but straightened in places + building tunnels) from Cardiff and Swansea (A465), join/split at Brecon and then end at Llandudno junction to intersect with the A55.
A government expert committee (SACTRA) found that trunk road improvements for connectivity could be as negative, economically, as they could be positive. If communities can be easier served from afar, this can lead to extraction of local industry and distribution services. As to connecting these two remote small market towns, socially and economically remote from each other, I have difficulty in imagining how even an economic case could be made, let alone a social one. The third prong of the justification, environment, is definitely negative, in such a semi-wild area, much more so for road improvement, but still negative.
Build it and they will come......
Railways have always been an enabler for growth in villages and towns as less and less land becomes available for houses within cities where most of the jobs are. (1)
Yes, no real business case appears to exist for this, but then, critically, none of use are actually qualified to to make this judgement. (2)
Outside of the south of wales, investment in infrastructure in Wales is a joke. Nothing above a winding single carriageway from the M4 up to the A55, yet when something is mooted by politicians, it gets roundly criticised. (3)
Considering this lack of investment convinces welsh MPs to approve this and re-opening was approved, would you support it and would you use it? (4)
Conversely, if this money was available to spend elsewhere, where would you spend the money?
Personally I love Wales and have visited many times over the years. I just wish there were quicker ways to get around than single track roads so I would vote for new roads instead of new railways:
ie Dual Carriageways from
- Shrewsbury to Mallwyd and Aberystwyth (splitting at welshpool)
- and then dualling throughout of the A470 (but straightened in places + building tunnels) from Cardiff and Swansea (A465), join/split at Brecon and then end at Llandudno junction to intersect with the A55 (5).
Wales (especially South Wales and North Wales) is festooned with OTT road building. The useless Carmarthen by-pass being an unfortunate West Wales example. Why can't they realise that the more remote they are, how much more attractive to tourists they are?
We had a holiday in West Wales that was a dream. We got there by rail (so didn't need all the pleb motorways), hired a car for a couple of days out of the 5, and so experienced the best of all worlds. The rest of the stay, we used the excllent local buses.
The A470 is dualled to the junction with the A465 HotV Road, 60% of the way to Brecon, and then has some more dual carriageway where it shares a route with the A40 to bypass Brecon. I don't think any currently proposed improvements on the A470 will be dual.3/ Much of the A470 is dual carriageway in South Wales, and has been improved in other areas, and there are plans for further improvements. Many parts of the route could not be dualled easily.
[snip]
A470 is dualled nearly all the way to Brecon.
Tourism isn't the only industry. Some people in Wales have normal jobs, almost as if they were real people.Wales (especially South Wales and North Wales) is festooned with OTT road building. The useless Carmarthen by-pass being an unfortunate West Wales example. Why can't they realise that the more remote they are, how much more attractive to tourists they are?
The A470 is dualled to the junction with the A465 HotV Road, 60% of the way to Brecon, and then has some more dual carriageway where it shares a route with the A40 to bypass Brecon. I don't think any currently proposed improvements on the A470 will be dual.
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Tourism isn't the only industry. Some people in Wales have normal jobs, almost as if they were real people.
Can't think of any in the North West that were not vital, eg Porthmadog bypass, A470 improvements around Dolgellau, planned Caernarfon bypass, A55 across Ynys Mon. Maybe someone could come up with some north eastern examples, can't think of any off the top of my head.Wales (especially South Wales and North Wales) is festooned with OTT road building.
Wales (especially South Wales and North Wales) is festooned with OTT road building. The useless Carmarthen by-pass being an unfortunate West Wales example. Why can't they realise that the more remote they are, how much more attractive to tourists they are?
We had a holiday in West Wales that was a dream. We got there by rail (so didn't need all the pleb motorways), hired a car for a couple of days out of the 5, and so experienced the best of all worlds. The rest of the stay, we used the excllent local buses.
Wales is in fact a grand case study in how tarmac has not achieved its economic claims. Portugal spent most of its inflated EU assistance budget building a national motorway network yet remains poorer than Wales.
Well it's clear to me now then, no new roads and no new railways for the people of Wales because they don't want them.
Ignore the tourism industry that gives Wales lots of commerce, ignore the fact that freight needs to get around the country, ignore the fact that Wales has it's own national assembly and is trying to improve the economy of the country.
Theirs an obsession among st the political classes that road building brings prosperity - it doesn't. Extending the A55 dual carriageway in the early 2000's across Anglesey didn't turn it into the land of milk and honey did it? No more than extending the A470 dual carriageway up to Merthyr in the 80's did. Theirs barely a village in S Wales not 3 miles away from a junction on a dual carriageways/motorway/bypass. Yet most of it is "assisted area" - Wales is in fact a grand case study in how tarmac has not achieved its economic claims.
This thread is getting tired.
Please can we have a campaign to close it, and never reopen it.
Build it and they will come......
Llangurig anyone ?
Well there is still a little bit of the earthworks in existence, and the diggings for the 2 portals of the Myherin tunnel!
However...........................
And no doubt the lingering ghost of the one "freight" train that ran. A perfect episode for Hinterland I reckon.![]()
The political scene remains fluid in Wales with Plaid nearly derailing Carwyn Jones nomination to be First Minister. Some horse trading seems likely if Labour are to govern which gives hope to transport projects away from the all the eggs in one basket approach of Welsh Labour.
And the AM for Ceredigion has become the Presiding Officer (Speaker) of the Senedd and therefore no longer votes ...
Just saying.
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An interesting idea, but Newcastle Emlyn was a branch off the Aberystwyth-Carmarthen line, not part of the through route. If you wanted a phased re-opening, I guess the first stage would have to be one of Carmarthen-Pencader, Carmarthen-Lampeter, Aberystwyth-Llanfarian or Aberystwyth-Llanilar. All of these suffer from including one of the 'expensive bits' where a new route would be required. The old route has been built on at the Aberystwyth end, and at the Carmarthen end (south of Pencader) I expect the curvature of the former route would significantly lengthen journey times. If the train isn't faster than driving there is absolutely zero case for re-opening.I'm of the opinion the a reopening to Newcastle Emlyn would make a lot more sense than reopening the whole route from Aberystwyth to Carmarthen.
Who knows, it could even be so popular that it makes the case for the full reopening stronger.
I'd start by upgrading Cardiff-Bridgend, and Carmarthen-Port Talbot (via the Swansea District Line), with a target Carmarthen-Cardiff journey time of no more than 70 minutes (I'd call it 'Project 70'). Then keep the waiting rooms at Aberystwyth and Carmarthen stations open from first to last bus/train, and put on faster (more-direct) buses between the two with enhanced legroom etc, connecting with the fast Cardiff-Carmarthen services. Then Bangor-Caernarfon with an hourly service initially but sufficient capacity for at least 2tph, with passive provison for extension further south to Porthmadog (using a new route between Bryncir and Porthmadog, rather than reopening via Afon Wen which would be slower, again there's no point building a railway if the car is faster, you might as well invest in buses instead) and/or Llanberris.Conversely, if this money was available to spend elsewhere, where would you spend the money?
Why do you love Wales? If you build bigger roads, more cars will come to spoil Wales, and the climate.Build it and they will come......
....
Personally I love Wales and have visited many times over the years. I just wish there were quicker ways to get around than single track roads so I would vote for new roads instead of new railways
You don't have to do that, the rubbish toilet-less bus from Aberystwyth doesn't go all the way to Cardiff, it terminates at Carmarthen and you have to change. So change onto a train (which will hopefully have a toilet and, if you're lucky, won't be a rubbish train (there are some rubbish trains on the Carmarthen line though)) at Carmarthen instead of going all the way on a bus.not having to use a rubbish Toilet-less Bus that shouldn't have any place on a journey as long as Aberystwyth-Cardiff. Bring it on!!
Carmarthen and Aberystwyth are not 'two remote small market towns, socially and economically remote from each other'. In the context of our area, they are large towns, and the hourly bus service between them was the busiest TrawsCambria bus route.As to connecting these two remote small market towns, socially and economically remote from each other, I have difficulty in imagining how even an economic case could be made, let alone a social one.
Interesting question: how many cars does a class 158 need to take off the road to result in reduced greenhouse gas emmisions overall? Obviously, in rural areas the best solution would be to get pepole onto buses instead of driving, but buses are always slower than driving some that might not be achievable. Trains are much more likely to achieve modal shift.They are not even particularly green when they cart around fresh air and few passengers.
There's no through demand on the Scotish border's railway is there? Maybe there would be if it ran all the way from Carlisle to Edinburgh, but it doesn't do that currently, yet sounds like it has been a huge success. The borders to Edinburgh sounds compareable to Aberystwyth and Lampeter to Cardiff to me, but I suppose Cardiff is not Edinburgh and Aberystwyth has alterative major centres (Shrewsbury and Birmingham) for passengers to head for, which may split the demand. Still, the Aberystwyth to Shrewsbury and Birmingham trains are doing well...Railways can have great utility even in rural areas provided that they also link significant population centres which create through demand (for example, the Settle and Carlisle line which links West Yorkshire and Cumbria, with useful marginal revenue at the reopened intermediate stations and pullthrough tourism revenues). That is not the case between Carmarthen and Aberystwyth.
I don't know about the Dolgellau improvements, but the others all appear to be further destruction of the competivitiveness of public transport. Bypasses, I believe, make things very difficult for buses. A Bangor-Porthmadog railway would probably be more successful without Caernarfon and Porthmadog bypasses too, and the dual carriageway across Ynys Mon probably impacts the railway to Holyhead as well.Can't think of any in the North West that were not vital, eg Porthmadog bypass, A470 improvements around Dolgellau, planned Caernarfon bypass, A55 across Ynys Mon.