EU Referendum: The result and aftermath...

[Groningen]

I think that the have nots never fly to Spain or take the boat to France. Read that several British shops closed down in 2010 in the Calais area, but that the booze cruise returned in 2015.

 

[Mvann]

Anyway it's all academic. I get the feeling that article 50 was not designed to be used as the EU never expected it to be used. And it was definateley not designed to cope with British politics. Because nobody would want to leave a federal Europe. Otherwise explain why Greece didn't have the option to leave, or get kicked out of the euro for that matter.
Also with the reports of the splits in Europe, there may not be an EU left.

 

[ExRes]

Don't know what all the fuss is about, there's a Tesco right next to Gatwick, free parking, low booze prices and no need for passports, doesn't matter about fag prices because it ought to be banned, if not then the Germans owe us a return favour for the Berlin airlift, all your fags parachuted straight into car boot sales and totally tax free

 

[northwichcat]

Otherwise explain why Greece didn't have the option to leave, or get kicked out of the euro for that matter.
Also with the reports of the splits in Europe, there may not be an EU left.

Simon Reeve's Greece documentary provided an interesting insight to how the Greek's are thinking. The EU encouraged Greece to join, despite it failing the necessary checks. The corrupt government took full advantage of EU grants and spent ridiculous sums on projects like an Athens Metro system (but didn't invest in ticket barriers or ticket checks) but then completely ignored big problems like landfill. Recent elections have seen huge swings with what were the biggest parties virtually being wiped out. However, there's a strong sense that the Germans have found a way of controlling what goes on in Greece after they failed to do that in WWII.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Anyway it's all academic. I get the feeling that article 50 was not designed to be used as the EU never expected it to be used. And it was definateley not designed to cope with British politics. Because nobody would want to leave a federal Europe. Otherwise explain why Greece didn't have the option to leave, or get kicked out of the euro for that matter.
Also with the reports of the splits in Europe, there may not be an EU left.

'Didn't have the option to leave'? Of course Greece had the option to leave the EU, or to leave the single currency, if it wished. As I recall, leaving the single currency was actively being discussed at the time of the Greek crisis. But, for whatever reason, the Greek Government simply didn't want to.

 

[miami]

'Didn't have the option to leave'? Of course Greece had the option to leave the EU, or to leave the single currency, if it wished. As I recall, leaving the single currency was actively being discussed at the time of the Greek crisis. But, for whatever reason, the Greek Government simply didn't want to.

I believe they were given a choice

"stay in our club, we'll give you money, but you have to abide by these austerity rules"
or
"leave our club, and we'll wish you well, but you don't get any money, and if you want to trade with us make sure your exports still meet these safety regulations"

The greek government decided that the best thing for the greek people was number 1.

 

[Gutfright]

Cheapest beer is here around 38 pence for half a liter.

What have I done? Brexit was a terrible mistake. The cheapest beer round here is £1 for half a litre!

 

[Groningen]

So if i believe the dutch newspaper than there will be no article 50 this year. First you will look what is best for the UK (and of course not for the rest of the EU). Why wait so long? You had enough time to make plans for leaving the EU. What is the problem?

 

[Mvann]

So if i believe the dutch newspaper than there will be no article 50 this year. First you will look what is best for the UK (and of course not for the rest of the EU). Why wait so long? You had enough time to make plans for leaving the EU. What is the problem?

The legal wording of article 50. And it looks like the legal wranglings are just starting. It says that we can only leave by satisfying are constitutional requirements. Which means parliament has to agree it. That means the referendum can only be taken into account and not the sole reason for leaving, so showing Cameron's empty threat. As most of the MPs in parliament are pro EU, that will slow things down. It will also have to go through the lords, who could throw the whole lot out to be re discussed. As we are being told there will be no general election till 2020, a pessimistic view could be 2023 before we leave. If you think certain people in leave didn't know what they were doing, think again. It was stated by experts before the referendum they thought 2020 would be the earliest leave date.

 

[Groningen]

Nigel Farage resigns as Ukip leader?! What will we the next chapter?

 

[Howardh]

The legal wording of article 50. And it looks like the legal wranglings are just starting. It says that we can only leave by satisfying are constitutional requirements. Which means parliament has to agree it. That means the referendum can only be taken into account and not the sole reason for leaving, so showing Cameron's empty threat. As most of the MPs in parliament are pro EU, that will slow things down. It will also have to go through the lords, who could throw the whole lot out to be re discussed. As we are being told there will be no general election till 2020, a pessimistic view could be 2023 before we leave. If you think certain people in leave didn't know what they were doing, think again. It was stated by experts before the referendum they thought 2020 would be the earliest leave date.

..and that leaves plenty of time for the financial and industry leaders to grab the government by the throat and stop the whole thing dead. Not only that there will be at least one General Election; maybe two, run on a "stop Brexit" ticket.

I live in hope....

 

[lejog]

So if i believe the dutch newspaper than there will be no article 50 this year. First you will look what is best for the UK (and of course not for the rest of the EU). Why wait so long? You had enough time to make plans for leaving the EU. What is the problem?

The problem is that there was absolutely no consensus between 52% of the population who voted No as to their priorities in leaving the EU. Putting a plan together that will satisfy all of the No voters was impossible before the referendum, and will be impossible now. We have already seen open warfare between the main proponents of Leave.

As Mvann says, since the UK does not have a clear written constitution, it is even unclear whether the Government or Parliament has the power to invoke Article 50.

It is possible (in my view likely) that the vote will cause years of instability in the UK and I'm afraid that the rest of the EU will have to accept that it may take years to invoke Article 50, if it ever happens at all.

 

[theblackwatch]

Nigel Farage resigns as Ukip leader?! What will we the next chapter?

Perhaps he'll change his mind again like the last time he resigned....

 

[Rich McLean]

Perhaps he'll change his mind again like the last time he resigned....

I suspect his reason for leaving isn't as simple as saying he wants his life back.

More likely that he is after a senior civil service position on the trade negotiation team in the longer term once his time as an MEP has come to an end

Like I say, I will post once I find out more when I am at home

 

[northwichcat]

It was stated by experts before the referendum they thought 2020 would be the earliest leave date.

Which would be a bit awkward as if we're still a member of the EU in May 2019 we'll need to elect new MEPs for the May 2019 to May 2024 term.

 

[ainsworth74]

There is a thread for Farage which can be found here. So lets leave this thread clear of the latest in the saga of Mr Farage

 

[Mvann]

Lejog. You forgot to mention that the nearest thing to a constiution we have is the magna carter.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Which would be a bit awkward as if we're still a member of the EU in May 2019 we'll need to elect new MEPs for the May 2019 to May 2024 term.

So thats 74 jobs saved. I would have thought embarrassing rather than just awkward

 

[lejog]

Lejog. You forgot to mention that the nearest thing to a constiution we have is the magna carter.

Why would I say that? That's complete and utter rubbish. Only three clauses of the Magna Carta remain in effect in UK Law, how can it be the nearest thing to a constitution that we have?

We do have a constitution, but as I said just not a clear, written constitution codified in one place. Perhaps read wiki on the the constituent elements of the constitution.

 

[Mvann]

Looks like I should have said had then.

 

[delt1c]

What have I done? Brexit was a terrible mistake. The cheapest beer round here is £1 for half a litre!

0.98 Euro a litre here in Malta,leave at your own expence
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
To many of the older generation think the Great in Great Britain still applies. To compete with the major economies and future economies we need to be part of a larger community. Unfortunately to many of the older generation south of the border voted for their own personal interests and blinkered believes and didnt think of the future generations

 

[Gutfright]

..and that leaves plenty of time for the financial and industry leaders to grab the government by the throat and stop the whole thing dead. Not only that there will be at least one General Election; maybe two, run on a "stop Brexit" ticket.

I live in hope....

Allowing the people to have a say over what happens is a terrible idea. All our decisions should be made by financial elites.

 

[northwichcat]

Allowing the people to have a say over what happens is a terrible idea. All our decisions should be made by financial elites.

Do you mean independent financial people or those who do what their employer/political party tells them to do?

 

[delt1c]

Do you mean independent financial people or those who do what their employer/political party tells them to do?

never let arse lickers make decisions , their breath stinks

 

[Gutfright]

Do you mean independent financial people or those who do what their employer/political party tells them to do?

My comment was a sarcastic retort to Howardh who seems to have his fingers crossed that "financial and industry leaders" will overturn the will of the people.

There have been quite a few people making the argument that the people are simply too ignorant to be asked what should happen to their country. Taking that argument to its logical conclusion, if the people are too ignorant to decide on this issue, surely they are also too ignorant to decide which party is in government? Perhaps "financial and industry leaders" should make that decision for us too?

 

[TheKnightWho]

My comment was a sarcastic retort to Howardh who seems to have his fingers crossed that "financial and industry leaders" will overturn the will of the people.

There have been quite a few people making the argument that the people are simply too ignorant to be asked what should happen to their country. Taking that argument to its logical conclusion, if the people are too ignorant to decide on this issue, surely they are also too ignorant to decide which party is in government? Perhaps "financial and industry leaders" should make that decision for us too?

The very reason we elect people is because we entrust them to run the country on our behalf, because most of us don't know enough.

 

[Gutfright]

The very reason we elect people is because we entrust them to run the country on our behalf, because most of us don't know enough.

Because most of us don't know enough, we are liable to elect the wrong people. Wouldn't it make more sense for our government to be chosen directly by financial and industry leaders instead?

 

[TheKnightWho]

Because most of us don't know enough, we are liable to elect the wrong people. Wouldn't it make more sense for our government to be chosen directly by financial and industry leaders instead?

This does not follow.

 

[Mvann]

0.98 Euro a litre here in Malta,leave at your own expence
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
To many of the older generation think the Great in Great Britain still applies. To compete with the major economies and future economies we need to be part of a larger community. Unfortunately to many of the older generation south of the border voted for their own personal interests and blinkered believes and didnt think of the future generations

So as exports from the uk are rising faster to non EU destinations, we still need the EU. Even though the said same EU, according to some official figures are saying the Europe is in decline.

Remember this has been the only opportunity to vote about the EU anyone in this country has had. The last one was to do with the EEC, which was a trade organisation. The EU is not just a trade organisation though.

 

[Moonshot]

The very reason we elect people is because we entrust them to run the country on our behalf, because most of us don't know enough.

this is absolutely spot on, and indeed since this came up , I have been researching to some depth on the very subject of the EU - with some suprising results. Prior to the referendum however, I must admit the subject of our membership was very low down on what I thought should be the priorities our government should be giving to improving the lot of everyone in our country.

 

[Senex]

Remember this has been the only opportunity to vote about the EU anyone in this country has had. The last one was to do with the EEC, which was a trade organisation. The EU is not just a trade organisation though.

But our properly-elected politicians have had a say at every stage of the changes that have taken place in the EEC/EU since the 1975 referendum and have agreed to those changes on our behalf.

If the argument is that there are certain organisation changes so important that the ordinary rules of representative government don't apply and a direct appeal to the people is necessary, then who is to decide just which changes those should be? If, say, the Maastricht Treaty, then why not a referendum in England on the devolution of powers to Wales and Scotland, which changed the UK constitutional arrangements very considerably indeed?