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Thameslink/ Class 700 Progress

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samuelmorris

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With regard to ride quality and the sway - all three occasions I've ridden a 700 have been from a window non-airline seat over a bogie - on empty services it seemed like a more comfortable place to sit. I noticed the sway but it didn't seem to be any different to other stock on Southern. The fast run on a 377/1 I had later that day between Clapham Junction and Selhurst felt a bit like a 'runaway train' in places.
I'm not familiar enough with that area to know which areas are worse than others and most of the complex sections of track on the TL diversionary route are traversed so slowly it's not really a good comparison.

On the A/C, I found the system very effective, it was 27C outside on my first ride on the units and I was getting a bit cold inside, which is unusual for me, I like my A/C quite cold in the summer. However, the unit was very lightly loaded with no more than a dozen or so people in each carriage. How it copes fully laden I'm not sure.

The lighting seemed very dim to me compared to other stock. It isn't necessary to have very bright lighting with such a clinical interior but it did actually seem positively cosy when passing through the tunnel at Balcombe. It actually made the environment feel quite pleasant.

I did overhear an interesting remark on one of my journeys about how much more room there seemed to be in the luggage racks than on a 377. I haven't yet tried the 700s but agree that electrostar luggage racks are deceptively small due to their shape.
The doorway areas do seem vast compared to their predecessors. I am optimistic about the numbers that could be crammed in there in periods of high demand.
 
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physics34

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With regard to ride quality and the sway - all three occasions I've ridden a 700 have been from a window non-airline seat over a bogie - on empty services it seemed like a more comfortable place to sit. I noticed the sway but it didn't seem to be any different to other stock on Southern. The fast run on a 377/1 I had later that day between Clapham Junction and Selhurst felt a bit like a 'runaway train' in places.
I'm not familiar enough with that area to know which areas are worse than others and most of the complex sections of track on the TL diversionary route are traversed so slowly it's not really a good comparison.

377s indeed have bad suspension at times and alot of sway. Quite uncomfortable at times. Havent really been over rough track on a 700 at speed to compare personally.
 

Class377/5

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442 are so different going over points because of the weight pounding the track. The 700s so far for me are superior on the BML compared to the Electrostars.
 

asylumxl

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442 are so different going over points because of the weight pounding the track. The 700s so far for me are superior on the BML compared to the Electrostars.
The weight of a 442 will definitely help dampen some of the bumps. Furthermore, the dynamics of the "chevrons" on some of the 700s bogies will also be quite different.
 

RobShipway

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442 are so different going over points because of the weight pounding the track. The 700s so far for me are superior on the BML compared to the Electrostars.

Have previously ridden on a class 442 many times when they were in service from Bournemouth to London Waterloo in the 1990's, I prefer the class 700s any day.
 

AM9

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377s indeed have bad suspension at times and alot of sway. Quite uncomfortable at times. Havent really been over rough track on a 700 at speed to compare personally.

If you venture north of the river, a ride on a fast between West Hampstead and St Albans will take yuo over the bumps between Cricklewood and Elstree at 100mph. The Electrostars seem to make heavy weather of that section of track, even brand-new 387s. The 700s on the other hand seem taut and unflustered with the track there.
 

Minstral25

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Just wondering if it is the 700's that are causing the regular problems in the morning peak at Redhill.

The 6:34 to London Bridge and 8:11 to Bedford are being cancelled a lot at the moment. In last two weeks both have been cancelled 4 times.
 

DerekC

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70010 reportedly made the first pass through the core section (Elephant to St Pancras) under ERTMS control on Friday night. That's a significant milestone, although NR rightly wants to get more test time before shouting about it.
 

neilm

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70010 reportedly made the first pass through the core section (Elephant to St Pancras) under ERTMS control on Friday night. That's a significant milestone, although NR rightly wants to get more test time before shouting about it.
When the core does use ERTMS will the fixed aspect signals remain or will they be removed?
 

philthetube

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All the ones I've had have released 12. There was an issue before.
The big issue we have with them is at some stops if we are terminating we have to go past the normal stop board to the T board associated with flu or all and then do a manual release.
Had it when I brought one out of bridges depot with no headcode and pis. It only released 4 so had to manually override it.

Where S stock have to stop forward of the normal stopping point there is an extra beacon provided to prevent doors open where necessary. For example on one stopping at Harrow on the Hill platform 4, to go into the sidings the dooors o the entire front car will remain closed.
 

W230

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On the A/C, I found the system very effective, it was 27C outside on my first ride on the units and I was getting a bit cold inside, which is unusual for me, I like my A/C quite cold in the summer. However, the unit was very lightly loaded with no more than a dozen or so people in each carriage. How it copes fully laden I'm not sure.
Drivers can control the temperature of the aircon too. Though we've been told to leave well alone! :lol:
The lighting seemed very dim to me compared to other stock. It isn't necessary to have very bright lighting with such a clinical interior but it did actually seem positively cosy when passing through the tunnel at Balcombe. It actually made the environment feel quite pleasant.
Again, drivers can control the brightness of the lights. Well, there are two settings. The dimmer setting you mention is far more pleasant IMHO.
 

jon0844

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I'd have thought there would be light sensors to adjust the lighting automatically? Is there an auto setting?
 

asylumxl

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I'd have thought there would be light sensors to adjust the lighting automatically? Is there an auto setting?
It's much better to let the driver control the lighting and control the atmosphere, you know what I mean? Set the AC a bit warmer, dim the lights and play Barry White over the tannoy... Atmosphere.

In all seriousness though, I believe LM trialled automatic adjustments to lights in some of their units but I can't remember if that included the 350s. If it did, I imagine it may have made its way to the 700s.
 

JonathanH

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Just wondering if it is the 700's that are causing the regular problems in the morning peak at Redhill.

The 6:34 to London Bridge and 8:11 to Bedford are being cancelled a lot at the moment. In last two weeks both have been cancelled 4 times.

Both should be 700s - http://www.railforums.co.uk/showpost.php?p=2642011&postcount=4224

06:34 at Redhill (05:47 from Brighton) and its return didn't make it north of Gatwick this morning, having left Brighton late. Next working (08:27 from Brighton) didn't pass Gatwick either. Third working cancelled throughout.

08:11 at Redhill is formed from an overnight Bedford to Brighton service and seems to have been the victim of staff shortages. On Friday, it appears to have been cancelled as a result of the booked driver not being trained on 700s (see message 4400 above http://www.railforums.co.uk/showpost.php?p=2648931&postcount=4400)
 

SAPhil

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The 18.02 from st Pancras to Bedford couldn't open the doors. After a 20 minute delay it was taken out of service at Kentish Town. I imagine the poor people who wanted to get off at St Pancras were especially pleased to get an extra, free journey on the new train!

I was on this train. It wasn't taken out of service but continued onwards. Another train was specially stopped at Kentish Town so people could transferr across rather than wait for it to resume. Most people got off, I couldn't be bothered so was rather amused when the one I was on departed first!
 

Bishopstone

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any reason why the 1st class partition door is manual?

Automated doors weigh more than manual doors. That's my guess.

The strength of the door springs reminds me of the outgoing class 319s, where you have to take care not to let the door snap back into the face of a person waiting behind.

Wouldn't surprise me if these doors were removed entirely, in due course.
 

gsnedders

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They are being kept for the foreseeable future so that trains not fitted with ERTMS can run - also good as a backup as suggested by asylumxl.

From memory there are fewer line-side signals and hence longer blocks than ETRMS ones, so capacity is lower with line-side signals.
 

Class377/5

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Just wondering if it is the 700's that are causing the regular problems in the morning peak at Redhill.

The 6:34 to London Bridge and 8:11 to Bedford are being cancelled a lot at the moment. In last two weeks both have been cancelled 4 times.

More driver availability issue with fewer drivers being passed out on 700s means it's harder to cover.

any reason why the 1st class partition door is manual?

Because of the smoke venting system means you need an edge around the door. Having sliding doors would risk fingers getting trapped.
 

Minstral25

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Both should be 700s - http://www.railforums.co.uk/showpost.php?p=2642011&postcount=4224

06:34 at Redhill (05:47 from Brighton) and its return didn't make it north of Gatwick this morning, having left Brighton late. Next working (08:27 from Brighton) didn't pass Gatwick either. Third working cancelled throughout.

08:11 at Redhill is formed from an overnight Bedford to Brighton service and seems to have been the victim of staff shortages. On Friday, it appears to have been cancelled as a result of the booked driver not being trained on 700s (see message 4400 above http://www.railforums.co.uk/showpost.php?p=2648931&postcount=4400)

Thanks for info.

As Redhill has very limited service direct to London Bridge and Thameslink in the Morning peaks thanks to the nasty cuts in 2014/5, it is meaning journeys are again a complete nightmare - with what used to be 27-35 minutes taking well over an hour most days in cramped standing conditions.
 

Class377/5

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700110 is currently in service making the 1732 Brighton to London Bridge.

That's right - so they will only be running unfitted trains at night and weekends, I think.

No they won't. 2018 off peak will be busier than todays peak folks. Only time none ETRMS services will run is during blocks.
 

JonathanH

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700110 is currently in service making the 1732 Brighton to London Bridge.

Thanks - I really hope it makes it all the way as I am looking to catch it at East Croydon.

How many in use now? - 104/107-110/112-114 - any more?
 

ChiefPlanner

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Seems to be some 8 car sets out on driver training today - one went through Harpenden at about 1210 lunchtime.
 

Class377/5

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Seems to be some 8 car sets out on driver training today - one went through Harpenden at about 1210 lunchtime.

700010. 8 car day testing started last week. 114/003 should be out tomorrow.

Thanks - I really hope it makes it all the way as I am looking to catch it at East Croydon.

How many in use now? - 104/107-110/112-114 - any more?

Believe 111 is also ready with 102 also seen in service.

In terms of passenger numbers or trains per hour? (Or both?)

15tph in current peak. 2018 the plan announced with GTR was 16tph off peak but the latest with Rainham etc included is actually 18tph off peak.
 
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DerekC

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No they won't. 2018 off peak will be busier than todays peak folks. Only time none ETRMS services will run is during blocks.

I did carefully say night and weekends (not mentioning off-peak). As I understand it GTR has (or had) plans to run 4 car non-ERTMS-fitted units when loadings allow. That may only mean nights - I don't think that's clear yet.
 
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