Pendolino interior

[mike57]

Living on the east coast I rarely use the West Coast mainline, this week I did however use it for a short journey from Warrington to Preston. It was my first time in a Pendilino second class, (did first class on a longer journey a couple of years ago) and thing that struck me was how claustrophobic they feel, even worse than the Voyagers.

I assume that the tilt must reduce the loading gauge, but the windows are small as well, and I think that makes it feel worse. How do others feel who use them regularly, I assume you just get used to it.

 

[J-2739]

Living on the east coast I rarely use the West Coast mainline, this week I did however use it for a short journey from Warrington to Preston. It was my first time in a Pendilino second class, (did first class on a longer journey a couple of years ago) and thing that struck me was how claustrophobic they feel, even worse than the Voyagers.

I assume that the tilt must reduce the loading gauge, but the windows are small as well, and I think that makes it feel worse. How do others feel who use them regularly, I assume you just get used to it.

I've not been on a pendolino for a long time, so can't really make a comment on my opinion on small windows but they are praised for their effect on crashworthiness; just look at Grayrigg in 2007.

 

[Harbornite]

Living on the east coast I rarely use the West Coast mainline, this week I did however use it for a short journey from Warrington to Preston. It was my first time in a Pendilino second class, (did first class on a longer journey a couple of years ago) and thing that struck me was how claustrophobic they feel, even worse than the Voyagers.

I assume that the tilt must reduce the loading gauge, but the windows are small as well, and I think that makes it feel worse. How do others feel who use them regularly, I assume you just get used to it.

It's Pendolino...

Voyagers also have tapered bodies for tilting and are also criticized for being a bit cramped.

The small Windows are for safety, personally I don't have a problem with pendos or Voyagers, apart from the bogs of the latter.

 

[najaB]

In order to save time....

Pendolino windows are too small.

Voyagers have smelly bogs.

They both have uncomfortable seats.

Everything was better when it was all loco-hauled Mk3s.

Perhaps we should replace them both with 442s now that they're going spare.

 

[Mordac]

Living on the east coast I rarely use the West Coast mainline, this week I did however use it for a short journey from Warrington to Preston. It was my first time in a Pendilino second class, (did first class on a longer journey a couple of years ago) and thing that struck me was how claustrophobic they feel, even worse than the Voyagers.

I assume that the tilt must reduce the loading gauge, but the windows are small as well, and I think that makes it feel worse. How do others feel who use them regularly, I assume you just get used to it.

You get used to it, and I find them better than a Voyager because at least they don't rattle everywhere. (Although as I've said elsewhere, I much prefer a VT Voyager to their XC counterparts).

The window issue is slightly annoying, but I understand why it's the case, and I like the ride quality.

 

[Harbornite]

In order to save time....

Pendolino windows are too small.

Voyagers have smelly bogs.

They both have uncomfortable seats.

Everything was better when it was all loco-hauled Mk3s.

Perhaps we should replace them both with 442s now that they're going spare.

Apart from safety and journey time improvements!

 

[najaB]

Apart from safety and journey time improvements!

I'm just quoting common forum lore.

 

[physics34]

Apart from safety and journey time improvements!

not neccesarily sure they are safer than mk3s!

 

[SS4]

The seating is too thin for me. It's not as bad in 1st but I'd rather take Chiltern(with the advtange of using Moor St and Marleybone which are much nicer than new st and Euston)

 

[ainsworth74]

not neccesarily sure they are safer than mk3s!

I doubt a Mk3 would have held up as well a the 390 vehicles that barrelled through several OHLE stanchions at 90mph+ before falling down an embankment, jack knifing and rolling over prior to coming to a rest.

 

[Domh245]

not neccesarily sure they are safer than mk3s!

Mk 3

as opposed to

Pendolino

 

[J-2739]

not neccesarily sure they are safer than mk3s!

Compare Ladbroke and Grayrigg.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Mk 3

as opposed to

Pendolino

Plus, IIRC, not one window shattered.

 

[Harbornite]

not neccesarily sure they are safer than mk3s!

Do enlighten us as to why this is the case...

I'll stick with the evidence, not Trainspotter wibble.

 

[ainsworth74]

Plus, IIRC, not one window shattered.

Not quite that good but the performance was very good compared to previous accidents:

All the standard bodyside windows on the train are laminated double glazed units comprising a toughened outer pane, an air gap, and a laminated inner pane. One window on each side is designated an ‘egress window’ and has a different type of laminated inner pane from the standard window so that it can be broken more easily for escape.

In vehicle one, all the standard windows on the right-hand side shattered (ie with the inner and/or outer panes fractured). However, none of these windows had disintegrated to the extent that there was a hole in the bodyside which might not have constrained passengers within the train. Only the egress window on this side was completely broken through, leaving an exposed hole. On the left-hand side, all but one of the windows had shattered inner and outer panes but none was completely broken through. One passenger was partially ejected from this vehicle through an egress window.

In vehicle two, five of the eight windows on the left-hand side had shattered inner and outer panes and of these, three in the centre section were completely broken through, including one egress window. Three other windows had shattered outer panes only. Approximately half a tonne of ballast and soil had entered the interior through these windows. All the windows on the right-hand side remained intact. One passenger was ejected through an egress window in this vehicle.

In vehicle three, eight of the nine windows on the right-hand side had shattered outer panes, but only one of these, an egress window, was completely broken through. On the left-hand side five of the eight windows had shattered outer panes but none was completely broken through.

In vehicles four to nine, 15 of the total number of 92 windows on these vehicles were shattered, but only one egress window, located on the right hand side of vehicle four, was broken through completely

Grayrigg Rail Accident Report Paragraphs 557 - 561

 

[Harbornite]

I'm just quoting common forum lore.

Had a feeling you were, but I thought I'd reiterate the point for others.

 

[lincolnshire]

I just don,t like them, went from Milton Keynes to Euston on one as it was going from dusk to dark and was glad to get off it, the small windows restricting the outside view and was beginning to feel travel sick.
Glad I wasn,t doing Euston / Glasgow, don,t mind Voyagers XC ones and quite happy with the seats on them too its just them smelly loo,s

 

[class387]

Living on the east coast I rarely use the West Coast mainline, this week I did however use it for a short journey from Warrington to Preston. It was my first time in a Pendilino second class, (did first class on a longer journey a couple of years ago) and thing that struck me was how claustrophobic they feel, even worse than the Voyagers.

I assume that the tilt must reduce the loading gauge, but the windows are small as well, and I think that makes it feel worse. How do others feel who use them regularly, I assume you just get used to it.

Because the Pendolino design was for the European loading gauge and when they adapted it for UK metals it got ruined.

I would happily sit on a Swiss or Italian Pendolino for hours but when going London to Birmingham always use Chiltern or LM, even if the latter is a 350/2.

Awful trains.

 

[rebmcr]

Because the Pendolino design was for the European loading gauge and when they adapted it for UK metals it got ruined.

Nonsense. The continental Pendolinos are an entirely different design, with different technology powering the tilt. Nothing was adapted.

The tapered sides are shared with MkIVs and 158s, the only real difference from other UK trains is the small windows. This makes them beyond awful when standing because the train is full (which I had to do in the shop for Euston-Piccadilly once during disruption) — but I find the view lovely when sitting, and seats not next to a window are perfectly fine for those with other forms of entertainment.

The only real issue I have with them is the extraordinarily loud air conditioning, which is extra disappointing considering the impressive feat of practically silent traction motors.

 

[bramling]

Not quite that good but the performance was very good compared to previous accidents:



Grayrigg Rail Accident Report Paragraphs 557 - 561

Does make one wonder if the safety risks of egress windows outweighs their benefit.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Living on the east coast I rarely use the West Coast mainline, this week I did however use it for a short journey from Warrington to Preston. It was my first time in a Pendilino second class, (did first class on a longer journey a couple of years ago) and thing that struck me was how claustrophobic they feel, even worse than the Voyagers.

I assume that the tilt must reduce the loading gauge, but the windows are small as well, and I think that makes it feel worse. How do others feel who use them regularly, I assume you just get used to it.

I quite like them. I don't find the small windows an issue, *providing I am able to get a seat that has a decent view*. So, for me the journey experience depends on where I am able to sit - more so than on most trains. One good feature of the Pendolino is the 11-car versions are pretty much the longest trains in the UK, so generally speaking there is often a reasonable chance of getting a decent seat. It's a great shame the whole fleet was not lengthened. I also quite like the subdued interior, relaxing for a long journey.

 

[rebmcr]

Does make one wonder if the safety risks of egress windows outweighs their benefit.

There's been a lot of research into that, weighing their role in these sorts of accidents against their useful role in other sorts. It's fairly clear-cut that one per coach (as is the case in a 390) is the optimal balance.

 

[class387]

Nonsense. The continental Pendolinos are an entirely different design, with different technology powering the tit. Nothing was adapted.

The tapered sides are shared with MkIVs and 158s, the only real difference from other UK trains is the small windows. This makes them beyond awful when standing because the train is full (which I had to do in the shop for Euston-Piccadilly once during disruption) — but I find the view lovely when sitting, and seats not next to a window are perfectly fine for those with other forms of entertainment.

The only real issue I have with them is the extraordinarily loud air conditioning, which is extra disappointing considering the impressive feat of practically silent traction motors.

Must have read wrong then - I'm sure I have read people say the the 390 was an adaptation of the Pendolino, and not just once. The continental versions are still miles away though, even with the same windows, so it must be something else about them. Also, I don't find the tilt system to be an issue either.

 

[Sheepy1209]

The Pendolinos always impress me for their quiet efficiency - the fact that we get a reliable and consistent train service outweighs their small windows / letterbox luggage racks, they just do the job of moving lots of people long distances quickly and comfortably. Yes I like a Mk3, but I wasn't impressed by the 'tombstone' seats on GWR, and on a recent trip on the Midland Main Line I found the IC70 seats just felt and looked dated. I also think many 'normals' in the North-West actually rather like the Pendolinos.

However - I often travel north from Preston, and while the TPE 350s are usually too busy and they're a commuter train that's somehow got onto an Inter City route, they give magnificent views of the lovely scenery and if it's a nice clear day I'll choose a 350 just so I can look out of the window!

 

[najaB]

I'm sure I have read people say the the 390 was an adaptation of the Pendolino, and not just once.

"I read it on the Internet" ≠ True.

 

[Mordac]

The Pendolinos always impress me for their quiet efficiency - the fact that we get a reliable and consistent train service outweighs their small windows / letterbox luggage racks, they just do the job of moving lots of people long distances quickly and comfortably. Yes I like a Mk3, but I wasn't impressed by the 'tombstone' seats on GWR, and on a recent trip on the Midland Main Line I found the IC70 seats just felt and looked dated. I also think many 'normals' in the North-West actually rather like the Pendolinos.

However - I often travel north from Preston, and while the TPE 350s are usually too busy and they're a commuter train that's somehow got onto an Inter City route, they give magnificent views of the lovely scenery and if it's a nice clear day I'll choose a 350 just so I can look out of the window!

I disagree about your assessment of the 350/4s, I think they're very comfortable and as laid out in the /4 subclass have an intercity feel. Is this just because of the door position?

Anyway, you can also catch a 221 North of Preston!

 

[plastictaffy]

Pendolinos = windows too small, there always appears to be something that rattles and makes your teeth itch once it's doing a ton plus.
Voyagers - foul. The engine sounds like it's sat in the seat next to you and the bogs stink. Howeevr I once had the pleasure of one of EMT's Meridians - they appear to be much better, even though I believe it's just a Voyager in a different colour, unless anyone knows different??

 

[edwin_m]

There has only been one Pendolino accident and while it was a high speed derailment the train did not run into a solid obstruction so was able to dissipate its kinetic energy relatively slowly. There have been several accidents to Mk3s with broadly similar outcomes, so I don't think there is enough evidence to say the Pendolino is proven to be more survivable.

Pendolinos, like all modern stock, are fitted with structural crashworthiness "crumple zones" at the end of each vehicle, but the Grayrigg report says they played no part in mitigation of the accident. I don't know if they played a part in the decision to write off the Pendolino set involved.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Nonsense. The continental Pendolinos are an entirely different design, with different technology powering the tit. Nothing was adapted.

The body *was* adapted from the Euro-Pendolino design. Look at them side by side, it is obvious. What is also obvious is that shrinking the train vertically to fit UK loading gauge has resulted in smaller windows.

By the way, the newer SBB/FS Euro-Pendolinos are terrible in 2nd - the seats are far too narrow and have stupid cupholders that get in the way of your knees. Fixtures and fittings are also very poor quality, and the PIS barely works at times - quite different to the UK version! I'd take a VT one any day over one of those.

but I find the view lovely when sitting, and seats not next to a window are perfectly fine for those with other forms of entertainment.

The windows are small but do seem to be vertically positioned for a good view.

The only real issue I have with them is the extraordinarily loud air conditioning, which is extra disappointing considering the impressive feat of practically silent traction motors.

Silent air movement is quite difficult to achieve, though if you want really noisy aircon try a Desiro.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

There's been a lot of research into that, weighing their role in these sorts of accidents against their useful role in other sorts. It's fairly clear-cut that one per coach (as is the case in a 390) is the optimal balance.

I assume that's one each side? There is a fairly obvious disadvantage to having one on one side only.

 

[ainsworth74]

There has only been one Pendolino accident and while it was a high speed derailment the train did not run into a solid obstruction so was able to dissipate its kinetic energy relatively slowly. There have been several accidents to Mk3s with broadly similar outcomes, so I don't think there is enough evidence to say the Pendolino is proven to be more survivable.

The 390 ran through several OHLE stanchions during the derailment. The same kind of stanchion which did this to a Mk4 vehicle:

(click to enlarge second image)

 

[fowler9]

Don't like the Pendolinos that much if they are chocka. If they are lightly loaded though I don't mind do much, still not a massive fan, they are pretty claustrophobic even with a decent seat.

 

[Huntergreed]

I much prefer the voyagers to the pendolinos, I feel that the 221s have far larger windows, making for a more interesting and scenic ride, and a nicer interior (I like the simplistic design of the voyages), unfortunately however they have very loud engines!