Class 387

[43096]

The 1644 off King's Cross I agree is rammed every day and would be my first candidate for 12-car-ing if a spare unit came free. Would however create some interesting jiggery pokery when it gets to Cambridge as I think the dropped portion heads back to London as a 4-car stopping at the village stations, and only 4-cars can go through to Lynn, so 4-cars would have to get lost somewhere else.

Can't be that hard: front 4 to Kings Lynn, middle 4 out of service to depot, rear 4 for the stopper.

 

[D365]

I thought that one of the reasons for supplementing/replacing the 365s with ex-Thameslink units is so that SDO can be used?

 

[Class377/5]

I thought that one of the reasons for supplementing/replacing the 365s with ex-Thameslink units is so that SDO can be used?

That's my understanding.

 

[43074]

Can't be that hard: front 4 to Kings Lynn, middle 4 out of service to depot, rear 4 for the stopper.

Or even better, run the middle 4 to Ely or Kings Lynn as a stopper and run the front 4 semi-fast - given how busy services in and out of Cambridge are at that time of day any extra capacity would be welcomed... although that may depend on power supply limitations North of Cambridge being addressed.

 

[Class377/5]

Or even better, run the middle 4 to Ely or Kings Lynn as a stopper and run the front 4 semi-fast - given how busy services in and out of Cambridge are at that time of day any extra capacity would be welcomed... although that may depend on power supply limitations North of Cambridge being addressed.

Seeing as the 387s will replace the 365s on the Kings Lynn, you'll be seeing 8 car 387s on the existing timetable. Only difference now is they can call all stations with SDO.

EDIT:

5 of the 6 387/2 on loan to Thameslink return this weekend.

 

[Class 170101]

The 0755 is restricted to 4-car as it calls at Foxton, Shepreth and Meldreth (as it does on its inward working to Cambridge as well).

Assuming this is 07:55 ex Cambridge could it not run either as an eight car with the rear four locked out until Royston or collect a second unit at Royston to run as an eight car from there to London?

 

[jon0844]

5 of the 6 387/2 on loan to Thameslink return this weekend.

On a trip to Brighton yesterday, both the outgoing and return trips were on 387/2s (well, half the train).

I have to say the interior on the GatEx versions are very nice (nicer than Southern colours). Obviously the less said about first class the better (assuming FC was at the front, then the one I was on hadn't even had any stickers/antimacassars put on at all).

As we were eating birthday cake and drinking on the journey down, the tables were a nice feature compared to the 700s!

 

[MrB]

Assuming this is 07:55 ex Cambridge could it not run either as an eight car with the rear four locked out until Royston or collect a second unit at Royston to run as an eight car from there to London?

How would they be locked and unlocked out of use on a DOO railway? Would require staff being present & could cause delays if staff at stations were unavailable for whatever reason.

 

[D365]

How would they be locked and unlocked out of use on a DOO railway? Would require staff being present & could cause delays if staff at stations were unavailable for whatever reason.

Isn't that a moot point though? As once the Class 387s transfer over (and the Class 700s come into use later) the replacement fleets will have SDO, and units will be fully accessible throughout.

 

[JonathanH]

5 of the 6 387/2 on loan to Thameslink return this weekend.

So, presumably some more 700s and fewer 442s in service next week? If not, what releases the 387s to be returned given five 387/1s are now at Hornsey?

 

[Skimble19]

How would they be locked and unlocked out of use on a DOO railway? Would require staff being present & could cause delays if staff at stations were unavailable for whatever reason.

The same way they are every morning on GN at present.. They get de-isolated at Royston (manned 24/7) and the rear 4 go into public use from there.

 

[philjo]

How would they be locked and unlocked out of use on a DOO railway? Would require staff being present & could cause delays if staff at stations were unavailable for whatever reason.

the 06:27 and 06:57 (& I think the 07:27 ?) from Cambridge have been doing this every morning for several years. they are 8-coach 317s with the rear unit locked out until Royston. Previously the units coupled at Royston which did cause delays if the units did not attach first time. (probably due to the curved platform?)

 

[Class377/5]

So, presumably some more 700s and fewer 442s in service next week? If not, what releases the 387s to be returned given five 387/1s are now at Hornsey?

The 700s release the 387/2. However they will not instantly go on GatEx work. They need the GatEx Software, branding etc applied that will take a short period.

And its six 387/1 at Hornsey not five.

 

[jon0844]

They need the GatEx Software, branding etc applied that will take a short period.

I hope GTR hasn't changed the logo again by the time it begins adding the branding.

Oh, and upgrading part of the train to first class will take an extra 20 seconds. I hope they've factored that in.

 

[Bishopstone]

5 of the 6 387/2 on loan to Thameslink return this weekend.

Wondered when that was going to happen, as there's something on the GatEx (I think) website which states the service will be operated entirely by the 'new trains' (ie 387/2) from 'the end of the summer', however that is defined.

Yesterday (Saturday) saw several 442 diagrams on GatEx, including two consecutive 2x442 Brighton extensions as I observed from Gatwick station. Given there are no 3x387/2 GatEx diagrams at the weekend, I believe, I was surprised there was a need to have so many 442s out.

 

[387star]

On a trip to Brighton yesterday, both the outgoing and return trips were on 387/2s (well, half the train).

I have to say the interior on the GatEx versions are very nice (nicer than Southern colours). Obviously the less said about first class the better (assuming FC was at the front, then the one I was on hadn't even had any stickers/antimacassars put on at all).

As we were eating birthday cake and drinking on the journey down, the tables were a nice feature compared to the 700s!

My only gripe is the lino around the disabled toilet and between vestibules and saloons have green flecks in it as well as the cab seats being green

Think a dark grey with red and light grey flecks would have been trendy and maybe red flecks on the carpet too

 

[bramling]

Assuming this is 07:55 ex Cambridge could it not run either as an eight car with the rear four locked out until Royston or collect a second unit at Royston to run as an eight car from there to London?

I think the issue at present is there simply aren't any additional units available at this time of day.

Hopefully these platforms will be extended at some point, regardless of whether SDO stock will be arriving.

 

[childwallblues]

Wondered when that was going to happen, as there's something on the GatEx (I think) website which states the service will be operated entirely by the 'new trains' (ie 387/2) from 'the end of the summer', however that is defined.

Yesterday (Saturday) saw several 442 diagrams on GatEx, including two consecutive 2x442 Brighton extensions as I observed from Gatwick station. Given there are no 3x387/2 GatEx diagrams at the weekend, I believe, I was surprised there was a need to have so many 442s out.

Maintenance requirement?

 

[Bishopstone]

Maintenance requirement?

Given these trains are months old, at most, how many would be out for maintenance at any one time?

(Aside from the routine stuff which is done overnight.)

I wondered whether it was cheaper for GTR to flog the 442s for as long as possible, in the knowledge they'll be doing no further overhauls or non-routine maintenance on these.

 

[D365]

I wondered whether it was cheaper for GTR to flog the 442s for as long as possible, in the knowledge they'll be doing no further overhauls or non-routine maintenance on these.

As far as I'm aware, units have to be returned to Angel Trains in a condition equivalent to how they were received.

 

[Class377/5]

Given these trains are months old, at most, how many would be out for maintenance at any one time?

(Aside from the routine stuff which is done overnight.)

I wondered whether it was cheaper for GTR to flog the 442s for as long as possible, in the knowledge they'll be doing no further overhauls or non-routine maintenance on these.

You still have to maintain the trains to the same standards plus after they go off lease you have to do an exam anyway so your not really saving anything.

Part of the thing initially is to get the maintenance spread out as well or you'll have all the exams bunching up together on new units. (I'm not suggesting this is a reason for units not being out btw but setting the scene to be more complex than you'd expect).

As the new units bed in you can push the availability of them higher until you reach the desired level of planned usage. There's also the fact of getting staff used to the units. Jumping from 442 to 387s is a big jump as lots of things have changed so takes a little bit to get up to speed and used to working them regularly. As a result you have a introduction plan that allows for this.

 

[superalbs]

Does anybody know what the planned diagrams for the GWR Class 387 operations are to be at first?

 

[swt_passenger]

Does anybody know what the planned diagrams for the GWR Class 387 operations are to be at first?

I think they were posted ages ago, they appeared in RTT for the May launch which was subsequently abandoned.

I know they aren't really diagrams, but RTT for September 5th will show them as Paddington to Hayes and Harlington workings, eg 2S09 here:

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C46513/2016/09/05/advanced

and Hayes & Harlington to Paddington eg 2S07 here:

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C44181/2016/09/05/advanced

There aren't that many over the course of a day, a few each peak including ECS as necessary.

 

[superalbs]

I think they were posted ages ago, they appeared in RTT for the May launch which was subsequently abandoned.

I know they aren't really diagrams, but RTT for September 5th will show them as Paddington to Hayes and Harlington workings, eg 2S09 here:

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C46513/2016/09/05/advanced

and Hayes & Harlington to Paddington eg 2S07 here:

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C44181/2016/09/05/advanced

There aren't that many over the course of a day, a few each peak including ECS as necessary.

So they aren't running returns, only outbounds?

 

[swt_passenger]

So they aren't running returns, only outbounds?

There are 10 one way services across the day that I can find (including two ECS) but passenger services are definitely shown in both directions.

 

[ScotGG]

It seems very few trains considering they have 6 387s to work with don't they?

 

[Class377/5]

It seems very few trains considering they have 6 387s to work with don't they?

Currently they have four units with a total of 8 being delivered by mid September and then the remaining 37 coming from around December-ish time.

Don't under estimate the task of training drivers especially seeing as they have only had a few 387s a few weeks. Takes awhile to get enough drivers trained.

 

[jopsuk]

It seems very few trains considering they have 6 387s to work with don't they?

they're only really needed for peak time. In the rest of the day, easier to shove them in sidings and run the service using the single class

 

[swt_passenger]

They've also got to change depot staff from being DMU maintainers to EMU maintainers. I'd expect one or two units to end up at Reading for training staff other than traincrew. Wasn't this the situation up in the NW with the 319s at one stage?

 

[urpert]

On a trip to Brighton yesterday, both the outgoing and return trips were on 387/2s (well, half the train).

I have to say the interior on the GatEx versions are very nice (nicer than Southern colours). Obviously the less said about first class the better (assuming FC was at the front, then the one I was on hadn't even had any stickers/antimacassars put on at all).

As we were eating birthday cake and drinking on the journey down, the tables were a nice feature compared to the 700s!

I had a similar trip on Thursday but the outward working was a 700. Made for quite an interesting direct comparison. There were immediate comments from members of my family about the sockets and tables on the 387 (and absence of them on the 700.)