Class 442s - Now at the end of the road and to be withdrawn permanently

[1179_Clee2]

The biggest rumour with some substance is for GWR on their loco hauled services between Cardiff and Taunton.

Mind you a 5 car Mk.3 rake with a class 67 Push/Pull ability, you would need to fit SDO to the vehicles for short platforms.

If Angel are going to refurb 18 Class 442's then the Cardiff to Taunton ONLY requires 3 units.
For 18 units to contiue to use them on third rail is unlikely.
Best guess would be loco hauled but where?

If the delays to sending HST's to Scotland are true? possible Scotrail? OR more loco hauled trains on GWR in order to send HST's to Scotland? OR use them instead of the short HST's on GWR
Trans Pennine dont need 18 trains but as the pretendolino is still being used in Anglia may need a couple for driver training?
ANYBODY ELSE LIKE TO GUESS ???

 

[cjmillsnun]

http://www.railmagazine.com/news/fleet/2016/10/27/442s-back-in-traffic-after-refurbishment

Rail Magazine is reporting that Angel Trains are planning to refurbish the 442s:

I'm wondering if Angel actually sent that back in late march for publication in April's issue

 

[spark001uk]

There's a rumour going around they are to do work on 18 of the units. No idea what for tho.

As I said on this thread some months ago, "So there you have it, the future of 442s is on charters."

Yep, 18 units for charters. Definitely where they'll be going.!

 

[physics34]

laughing now at the people who were hoping that they would go straight to the scrapyard!

 

[spark001uk]

I think swt should have some of them back personally, but I know they won't. If you ask me, if they can afford to re-traction all their 455s they could have done some 442s, releasing 444/450s to bolster their mainline services, and maybe even replace the 455 mainline stoppers that don't even have a toilet.!
(AFAIK the longest no-toilet passenger service)

 

[D365]

If you ask me, if they can afford to re-traction all their 455s they could have done some 442s, releasing 444/450s to bolster their mainline services, and maybe even replace the 455 mainline stoppers that don't even have a toilet.!

The business case for the Class 455 retraction was only made viable because of the need for space at Wimbledon TMD for the Class 707s.

/pedant

 

[1179_Clee2]

There's a rumour going around they are to do work on 18 of the units. No idea what for tho.

Modern Railways magazine has a article page 17 that says Network rail have informed the DfT that the next stage of the Northern high frequency timetable may not be ready for Dec 2017 and may be a staged introduction of May 2018 and Dec 2018.
The extra Class 319's cannot be used so stored.
Another option is required to provide the extra seats.
Loco hauled of DMU's.
Use Class 442's with Northern OR use with GWR and send the DMU's Northern is getting from GWR early.

 

[infobleep]

I think swt should have some of them back personally, but I know they won't. If you ask me, if they can afford to re-traction all their 455s they could have done some 442s, releasing 444/450s to bolster their mainline services, and maybe even replace the 455 mainline stoppers that don't even have a toilet.!
(AFAIK the longest no-toilet passenger service)

Which service uses 455s on the mainline? Personally I'd like all services from Guildford northwards to ha e a loo but they don't consider all services north of Guildford to be mainline services.

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

 

[spark001uk]

Which service uses 455s on the mainline? Personally I'd like all services from Guildford northwards to ha e a loo but they don't consider all services north of Guildford to be mainline services.

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

Yes the Guildford/Woking to Waterloo on the mainline I mean. Everything else has toilets now, apart from the Guildford new line and suburban workings that is.

 

[infobleep]

I can see why the services from Surbiton or even Hinchley Wood might be metro, being built up, but I don't think places like Cobham or Bookham are metro.

If I'm ever travelling back from Waterloo I try to avoid the last trains. The thought of being on a train for an hour or more without a loo isn't great. But I digress.

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[spark001uk]

2403 back up to Ely today. For the second time!
31452 hauling.

 

[50047]

2403 back up to Ely today. For the second time!
31452 hauling.

That's 2403s first time at Ely.
2421 leaving SL for Eastleigh today
2404+2411 leaving Three Bridges for Eastleigh on Thursday 03/11
2418 or 2420 going back to Ely on Friday 04/11

 

[Galaxy]

Potentially and for the latter!

 

[spark001uk]

That's 2403s first time at Ely.
2421 leaving SL for Eastleigh today
2404+2411 leaving Three Bridges for Eastleigh on Thursday 03/11
2418 or 2420 going back to Ely on Friday 04/11

Thanks. My mistake on 2403, it was 2423, and 18 / 20 that had come back. Any idea why they were brought back down?

Att: 37884+442421+47812, 5O86 SL to Eastleigh 01/11/16

 

[scott118]

37884 with 47812 hauled 2420 Eastleigh to Ely today..

 

[spark001uk]

Yep, saw it this afternoon. This one is for the second time, after coming back down a couple of weeks ago (with 2418).

 

[Dhassell]

Spotted 3 units today in Eastleigh yard, Anyone able to ID from the photo posted below?
http://imgur.com/L22S0ks

 

[BestWestern]

So, here goes with some waffle then; if a loco kicks out a train supply of 1000v, is there a practical way of 'piping' it through to the trailers of a 442 as the roughly 700v feed they'd usually get through the juice rail?! This is only semi-silly now, seeing as they appear set for overhaul of some sort and there appears to be no prospect of them resurfacing as third rail EMUs anywhere, so trailers seems semi likely.

 

[jamieP]

So, here goes with some waffle then; if a loco kicks out a train supply of 1000v, is there a practical way of 'piping' it through to the trailers of a 442 as the roughly 700v feed they'd usually get through the juice rail?! This is only semi-silly now, seeing as they appear set for overhaul of some sort and there appears to be no prospect of them resurfacing as third rail EMUs anywhere, so trailers seems semi likely.

Why would you tho?

 

[NSEFAN]

Why would you tho?

If the One Last Task railtour goes well, a couple of sets could prove useful as a spot-hire charter rake. Unlike Riviera's Mk2 "coffins", the aircon is in good working order, the interiors are reasonably modern and they have only two droplights, which minimises the risks associated with window-hanging.

 

[Mordac]

If the One Last Task railtour goes well, a couple of sets could prove useful as a spot-hire charter rake. Unlike Riviera's Mk2 "coffins", the aircon is in good working order, the interiors are reasonably modern and they have only two droplights, which minimises the risks associated with window-hanging.

And yet they've recently has a droplight related death...

 

[BestWestern]

Why would you tho?

Well because if they are thinking of refurbing them into trailers, I would imagine it would damage their commercial potential if they've got no electricity supply arrangements...

 

[NSEFAN]

And yet they've recently has a droplight related death...

Indeed. It was a very unfortunate incident that has drawn a lot of attention to the use of droplight windows. Hence the 442s would be a good use for such charters where people actively hanging from windows is a problem. Given the only droplights on 442s are need the guard's van, it should not be a problem to keep a close eye on them.

 

[spark001uk]

A drop window isn't even a requirement for the guard nowadays, look at all the sliding door units in operation today, most of those require that the guard close the door he's using before he can get the interlock.

As for unauthorised droplight opening, in some cases it seems members of public are still getting hold of carriage keys, it was pointed out to me only the other day that someone from Abellio was selling their t-key and lanyard on ebay. Shouldn't be allowed, these can literally risk life when misused. Anyway I digress.

 

[jamieP]

Well because if they are thinking of refurbing them into trailers, I would imagine it would damage their commercial potential if they've got no electricity supply arrangements...

They already have ETH sockets.

 

[cjmillsnun]

They already have ETH sockets.

They did as new, I'm not sure if they were removed during an SWT refurb.

 

[RobShipway]

Well because if they are thinking of refurbing them into trailers, I would imagine it would damage their commercial potential if they've got no electricity supply arrangements...

Would this be for passengers to charge up their mobile phones etc...?

Surely, the coaches as trailers would have electricity within them for lighting, but if it is electrical power for other means then I would think that they would not be used in railtours and would be loco hauled on national rail services.

It has been my experience, when being on railtours that the carriages used are taken back to the basics that they were introduced with when new, which would mean that there would not be any plug sockets for passengers to use on the class 442 trailers as they did not exist when the class 442's where introduced.

 

[spark001uk]

...which would mean that there would not be any plug sockets for passengers to use on the class 442 trailers as they did not exist when the class 442's where introduced.

I don't think anything had sockets at that time did they? Apart from the cleaner's sockets on the sprinters maybe?

 

[RobShipway]

I don't think anything had sockets at that time did they? Apart from the cleaner's sockets on the sprinters maybe?

That is my memory as well. Yes they had Electric Train heating within them and if that is what is being asked about ETH sockets on the trailer coaches then okay, but if it is for electrical power for the passengers then the whole coaches need to be stripped out and rebuilt in the same way as the GWR MK3' coaches.

To do the same work as the Mk3 GWR coaches, as has previously have been pointed out within these forums for railtours would be pointless, as the train owners would never be able to get the cost per carriage back.

 

[D365]

Have any Mk1 or Mk2 carriages ever been fitted with BS1363 mains sockets?

That is my memory as well. Yes they had Electric Train heating within them and if that is what is being asked about ETH sockets on the trailer coaches then okay, but if it is for electrical power for the passengers then the whole coaches need to be stripped out and rebuilt in the same way as the GWR MK3' coaches.

1000V is definitely not suitable for charging your phone or laptop.