EU Referendum: The result and aftermath...

[Abpj17]

Think - and I may be wrong but not far off - we have the most "valuable" passport in the world - the one that lets you into the most countries visa-free. A lot of that is down to how difficult it is to obtain one in the first place, unless you're Zola Budd, and it's trusted and revered throughout the world, and copied, no doubt.

Bureaucratically that's still true. But confessing to being US/UK isn't as good as it used to be - both have imperialist overtones, particularly with recent interventions in Iraq and Afghanistan.

 

[anme]

Hope so, but there's been so many twists and turns..

What we can be sure of is, behind the scenes, her civil service advisors will be working out what can and can't be expected with negotiations, and if they and business leaders have come to the conclusion that we are better off being as close to the EU as we can if we HAVE to leave, that's the line a Tory PM will take.

To be honest, I think it's much clearer than that. The impact of leaving the single market is pretty obvious, and very bad. I'm sure some modelling has been done, and businesses will have made their views clear, but it's not rocket science. Leaving the single market will cause enormous economic pain and suffering, especially to high profile "leave" areas like Sunderland. Now May might say f... them, let's give them what they asked for. But maybe she won't.

Out of two groups, which one will a Tory MP listen to most? A group who keep saying "we won the vote now do what we say even though you don't know what we said" or the banks, major businesses, civil servants and the like?

The problem for the Tories is that they have two fundamentally contradictory beliefs in their (current) ideological make up - and often in their own heads:
- Nationalism, which says that geography and genetics are the most important things in determining the value of something or someone, and that borders and national preference are necessary and right.
- Free markets and free trade, which say that everything should be judged by its economic value (not where it comes from) and restrictions such as borders and national preference destroy wealth and are wrong.

Which of the two will win out? Watch their heads explode!

Money talks with the Tories, and they know full well that if Brexit fails there are an awful lot of businesses they will be obliged to bail out, if they carry on down the Nissan route. Do they want to go into the election in 2020, or more likely 2025 on the back of tax rises, lower pensions, deeper cuts?

Bailing out businesses is not an option in the long term - it's not only not affordable, but subsidies such as paying tariffs on behalf of companies are illegal under WTO rules, and other subsidies will rule out free trade deals as the competition will be seen as unfair by other countries. Actually it's interesting to wonder what exactly the government did say to Nissan. Nissan's announcement may not be all it seems (they could go back on it without losing anything), but maybe the government said that they do plan to stay in the single market after all.

Virtual full access would also keep Scotland and Norn happy(ish) and could also save Gibraltar from and Spanish difficulties.

In which case people might say "isn't that the same as being IN the EU"?. Indeed.

Indeed. Leaving the EU but staying in the single market is moronic. But the alternative - hard brexit and isolation, is worse.

 

[Johnuk123]

In my experience British people think of themselves as European on the obvious grounds that they are European.

Your experience sounds rather flawed then.
You're obviously a big Emily Thornberry fan with your declaration that most of the English male sex are drunk and aggressive.

 

[anme]

Your experience sounds rather flawed then.

Why?

You're obviously a big Emily Thornberry fan with your declaration that most of the English male sex are drunk and aggressive.

I don't know what Emily Thornberry is but I did not declare that most of the "English male sex" (I assume you mean "Englishmen") are drunk and aggressive. I said that's what I think of when I think of what is "English". I also said that I think of Nigel Farage doing his dance in the European Parliament, and I think it's fairly obvious that I'm not saying all English people are Nigel Farage.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

I don't agree. I see the use of "British", like the use of "UK", as purely political -- or geographical for all those of us who live on the island of Great Britain. I would never use it to describe my nationality, which I would assert to be English and then European. (Quite different from my "Staatsangehörigkeit", which is unfortunately "Citizen of the United Kingdom".)

The English, the Scots, and the Welsh inhabit the island of Great Britain, and although the Lowland eastern Scots have a common origin with the English (and started off with a common language), they have been a separate nation for long enough to be very conscious of being Scottish, not English. If the Scots feel Scottish and describe themselves as Scots, why should the English not feel English and describe themselves as English? After all, that's what we were right through the union of the crowns and up to the union of the kingdoms under Queen Anne.

Obviously, the answer to the bolded bit is, no reason at all. It's a perfectly fine thing to do. I think the problem is that for quite a long time, almost the only people publically doing so have been right-wing extremists, fairly rowdy football supporters, and various ad hoc nationalist thugs - and that's obviously caused the English flag and public displays of affection for England to become associated in many people's minds with fairly unsavoury behaviour, in a way that isn't the case for Scotland and Wales. That's arguably very unfair to many ordinary people who primarily feel 'English', but it's the situation we've ended up in

I think the solution is for people such as yourself to keep doing what you appear to be already doing: promote English 'patriotism' in a way that's clearly pleasant and respectable. I'm sure that in time, if enough people do so, the English flag etc. would cease to have unpleasant connotations to so many other people.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The problem for the Tories is that they have two fundamentally contradictory beliefs in their (current) ideological make up - and often in their own heads:
- Nationalism, which says that geography and genetics are the most important things in determining the value of something or someone, and that borders and national preference are necessary and right.
- Free markets and free trade, which say that everything should be judged by its economic value (not where it comes from) and restrictions such as borders and national preference destroy wealth and are wrong.

I note that you make mention of "free trade" above, which one has a point well worth mentioning in historical terms as being something that was seen as something to strive over nearly two hundred years ago in Manchester.

The matter of commemoration of that aspiration was the erection of the Free Trade Hall, which was built between 1853 and 1856 by funds from public donation on land given by Richard Cobden in St Peter's Fields, which was the site of the Peterloo massacre of 1819. Manchester had a leading voice in fight that led to the repeal of the Corn Laws at that point in history and the Free Trade Hall was built to celebrate the repeal of the Corn Laws.

 

[125Forever]

One thing that has not been debated by either Remain or Leave is the issue of population v infrastructure.

Years ago, there was a game called Sim City 2000, and as Mayor of a city you had to ensure that as the population of your city grew you had adequate resources for the residents of that city - electricity, water, transport, jobs etc. If you had too few of these, people would rally against you and demand you be removed from office.

Though the above as a game, in real life we still need the same things - electricity, water, a good transport network, jobs in industry and commerce. The trouble is that by adding people and not increasing the others (the infrastructure) you are going to create problems for the future.

I am one of those who voted for Leave, for two main reasons:

1) I am a gay man (yes, I know - bums to the wall!) and the encroachment of IS into Europe worries me greatly. With it being deemed 'inappropriate' to call out the Muslim rapists in Germany and France (due to Political Correctness no doubt), I am worried that should they get here I will be thrown off the nearest tall building.

When interviewed, 100% of Muslim men said that homosexuality was wrong in their eyes (disappointing, from my point of view, but I can agree to disagree - even with bigots). 52% of these same men said they believe in Sharia punishments against homosexuals (the 'lob them off the roof' solution). Governments cannot say they will protect the homosexual community and also bend over backwards (oooerrr!) in order to appease Muslims demanding Sharia Law. Gays and Muslims (despite what some liberals will tell you) cannot always get along - they are two entirely different cultures.

2) For the reasons above re: Population. When you have +people and no improvements in infrastructure and declining job openings (or where a business is going part to fully automated) just how are these people coming here meant to get money and earn a decent wage? We are adding people, jobs are becoming scarcer and with wages it's a race to the bottom despite the Minimum Wage supposedly being enforced.

Also, I am a keen nature enthusiast, and I worry that under pressure from idiots and race card using tantrum throwers like David Lammy MP we will be forced under the 'it's racist you bigots!' rulings to pave over our lovely countryside in order to accommodate people coming in. I enjoy the following areas (among many others) and would hate them to be lost for future generations:

* The Vale Of Pewsey (simply stunning IMO)
* Cranborne Chase
* The Malvern Hills
* The Brecon Beacons
* The Forest Of Bowland
* The Lake District
* The Scottish Highlands

For the right sum of money, I can sadly see them being sold off and the 'Sheeple Folk' demanding it be done too. Pave paradise on the whim of an MP (who will stand to gain big monies) and it will be hard to swallow (or indeed breathe).

 

[RichmondCommu]

What difference does my nationality make to you? Are only some human beings allowed to have an opinion, depending on where they were born?

This is what scares me about the UK.

I don't think anyone has said that you are not allowed to have an opinion, I'm just curious to know which country you are from. The very fact that you are not prepared to comment on this makes one wonder if you are ashamed of your nationality. If indeed that is the case that makes me feel sad.

You are suggesting that the UK and its population scare you in which case I can't help but wonder what you think of France and Belgium. Race relations in both countries are seemingly at an all time low and neither country are apparently able to effectively fight ISIS. The French security forces are in competition with each other and communication within the Belgium police force is shambolic.
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Having said that, British people have a very simplistic view of nationality. Many parts of Europe have changed hands many times over the course of history, even in the 20th century, often in traumatic circumstances. This tends to promote local over national identity, and also teaches that national identity is arbitrary and changeable and perhaps not even that important - something that terrifies many British people who build their whole self image around the fact that they are special because they are British.

How to make friends and influence people by anme. Assuming that you are not a British citizen I do wonder what makes you think you are so well qualified to describe the British population in such a manner.

Try telling the French or indeed the Germans that national identity is not important. Good luck with that.
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To me, "English" is sunburnt, drunk, aggressive men (who are terrified inside) throwing chairs across foreign piazzas, terrible football, Nigel Farage doing his attention-seeking dance in the European Parliament, endless, featureless suburbia, and, well, Brexit. "British" seems more civilised - Darwin, Shakespeare, Austen, the Brontes, the Scottish Highlands, etc.

Having said that, I'm a frequent traveller and I can tell you that in much of the world British equates to the British Empire, and means oppression, slavery and death, so I guess there are pros and cons to both.

I really hope for your own integrity that you are simply being facetious but if not I'm wondering whether you perhaps once had your heart broken by a English girl / boy and have never got over it. I can easily accept criticism of the English national football team as they are indeed useless but I wonder why you have neglected to mention our Olympic success. OK that was a proud UK effort but nevertheless many of our competitors came from England. You appear to be very keen to describe English men as being aggressive but I can't help but wonder what you think of English ladies.

Why do you have an issue with suburbs in our large conurbations? Where would you prefer it that our population lived? I never realised that our suburbs were such popular tourist attractions!

 

[Abpj17]

1) I am a gay man (yes, I know - bums to the wall!) and the encroachment of IS into Europe worries me greatly. With it being deemed 'inappropriate' to call out the Muslim rapists in Germany and France (due to Political Correctness no doubt), I am worried that should they get here I will be thrown off the nearest tall building.

When interviewed, 100% of Muslim men said that homosexuality was wrong in their eyes (disappointing, from my point of view, but I can agree to disagree - even with bigots). 52% of these same men said they believe in Sharia punishments against homosexuals (the 'lob them off the roof' solution). Governments cannot say they will protect the homosexual community and also bend over backwards (oooerrr!) in order to appease Muslims demanding Sharia Law. Gays and Muslims (despite what some liberals will tell you) cannot always get along - they are two entirely different cultures.

I find that a really worrying reason to vote leave. A combined, pulling in the same direction, Europe ought to have a stronger chance of defeating ISIS and making clear what behaviour is not appropriate for those immigrating into Europe.

To give you a little ray of hope, organised religion and homosexually can be compatible. Through friends, I know homosexual men of both Jewish and Muslim faith.

 

[anme]

I don't think anyone has said that you are not allowed to have an opinion, I'm just curious to know which country you are from. The very fact that you are not prepared to comment on this makes one wonder if you are ashamed of your nationality. If indeed that is the case that makes me feel sad.

You are suggesting that the UK and its population scare you in which case I can't help but wonder what you think of France and Belgium. Race relations in both countries are seemingly at an all time low and neither country are apparently able to effectively fight ISIS. The French security forces are in competition with each other and communication within the Belgium police force is shambolic.
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How to make friends and influence people by anme. Assuming that you are not a British citizen I do wonder what makes you think you are so well qualified to describe the British population in such a manner.

Try telling the French or indeed the Germans that national identity is not important. Good luck with that.
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I really hope for your own integrity that you are simply being facetious but if not I'm wondering whether you perhaps once had your heart broken by a English girl / boy and have never got over it. I can easily accept criticism of the English national football team as they are indeed useless but I wonder why you have neglected to mention our Olympic success. OK that was a proud UK effort but nevertheless many of our competitors came from England. You appear to be very keen to describe English men as being aggressive but I can't help but wonder what you think of English ladies.

Why do you have an issue with suburbs in our large conurbations? Where would you prefer it that our population lived? I never realised that our suburbs were such popular tourist attractions!

I'm flattered that you write over 300 words about me, but it's somewhat off topic as this is thread is about the UK's decision to leave the EU and what happens next. Can I suggest you keep such posts to private messages, so we don't distract ourselves from the matter at hand? I have many many times asked what members think should happen next with almost no responses (I think there have been two so far which actually addressed the issue). Maybe you could comment on that? If you want a crib sheet on the possible choices, see here: http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...s-freedom-movement-choices-take-a7367896.html
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Those who want to UK to leave the single market, make its own trade deals, and cut immigration - what do you think of this? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...-more-work-visas-to-indian-nationals-says-may

BTW there are many other impediments to a trade deal with India, such as agricultural subsidies.

 

[SteveP29]

I'm flattered that you write over 300 words about me, but it's somewhat off topic as this is thread is about the UK's decision to leave the EU and what happens next. Can I suggest you keep such posts to private messages, so we don't distract ourselves from the matter at hand? I have many many times asked what members think should happen next with almost no responses (I think there have been two so far which actually addressed the issue). Maybe you could comment on that? If you want a crib sheet on the possible choices, see here: http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...s-freedom-movement-choices-take-a7367896.html
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Those who want to UK to leave the single market, make its own trade deals, and cut immigration - what do you think of this? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...-more-work-visas-to-indian-nationals-says-may

BTW there are many other impediments to a trade deal with India, such as agricultural subsidies.

You put it out there in public, going off topic in public, demanding a reply in private is a bit two faced, isn't it?

 

[GatwickDepress]

To give you a little ray of hope, organised religion and homosexually can be compatible. Through friends, I know homosexual men of both Jewish and Muslim faith.

Indeed, I'm a Muslim woman who has been in relationships with other Muslimas. When fundamental religious culture is exposed to others, it's possible for a happy medium to be found. Pakistani clerics issued a fatwa declaring transgender marriages legal earlier this year which is very hopeful, especially as Pakistan is majority Sunni.

125Forever's attitude towards nature is understandable but the underlying reasons perplex me. We have a housing crisis at the moment, and the current developers' fetish for semi-luxury apartments and sprawling estates cause a hell of a lot of damage to nature - but those are fine? It's people using the race card to create affordable housing that'll destroy the environment?

I get the feeling 125Forever is the kind of bloke who often starts sentences with "I'm not racist, but"...

 

[anme]

You put it out there in public, going off topic in public, demanding a reply in private is a bit two faced, isn't it?

I most certainly did not. Someone demanded to know my nationality (I assume because they believe only certain people are entitled to take part in the debate) and I refused to answer. I want to keep this strictly on topic.

 

[yorksrob]

Wow! I've only heard this "Britain is not part of Europe" belief from a member of the BNP before and that was back in the 1990's. I'm not going to discuss further the fact that you're totally wrong, but I would like to ask why you choose to hold such a laughable belief? What is it about Europe that you hate or fear so much?

You seem unable to make up your mind as to whether you wish to discuss further, therefore I will simply say the following.

The UK is situated on an archipelago, Europe is a continent. I had no wish to make a particular point about it, however, I suppose this does betray that on a subconscious level I still think of Europe as 'the other' or somewhere that I occasionally go to,rather than somewhere I am living.

That said, nowhere does this lead to me 'hating' the continent of Europe or it's various countries. As mentioned in my previous post, I have been to the continent several times and found it very interesting and enjoyable. Does this make me any more likely to move there? Probably no more than any other westernised country. I can assure you that whatever my misgivings about the EU itself, bi-lateral relations with our neighbours were upper most in my mind when I went into the polling booth.

 

[radamfi]

Arguably, we should have less to do with Northern Ireland than the rest of Europe, given that the stretch of water between them and the mainland is wider than between Dover and Calais. Great Britain is even connected to the rest of Europe by a railway line.

Ireland is much further away from the European mainland yet is considerably more Euro-friendly than England. Also true for Scotland.

 

[DarloRich]

One thing that has not been debated by either Remain or Leave is the issue of population v infrastructure.

Years ago, there was a game called Sim City 2000, and as Mayor of a city you had to ensure that as the population of your city grew you had adequate resources for the residents of that city - electricity, water, transport, jobs etc. If you had too few of these, people would rally against you and demand you be removed from office.

Though the above as a game, in real life we still need the same things - electricity, water, a good transport network, jobs in industry and commerce. The trouble is that by adding people and not increasing the others (the infrastructure) you are going to create problems for the future.

I am one of those who voted for Leave, for two main reasons:

1) I am a gay man (yes, I know - bums to the wall!) and the encroachment of IS into Europe worries me greatly. With it being deemed 'inappropriate' to call out the Muslim rapists in Germany and France (due to Political Correctness no doubt), I am worried that should they get here I will be thrown off the nearest tall building.

When interviewed, 100% of Muslim men said that homosexuality was wrong in their eyes (disappointing, from my point of view, but I can agree to disagree - even with bigots). 52% of these same men said they believe in Sharia punishments against homosexuals (the 'lob them off the roof' solution). Governments cannot say they will protect the homosexual community and also bend over backwards (oooerrr!) in order to appease Muslims demanding Sharia Law. Gays and Muslims (despite what some liberals will tell you) cannot always get along - they are two entirely different cultures.

2) For the reasons above re: Population. When you have +people and no improvements in infrastructure and declining job openings (or where a business is going part to fully automated) just how are these people coming here meant to get money and earn a decent wage? We are adding people, jobs are becoming scarcer and with wages it's a race to the bottom despite the Minimum Wage supposedly being enforced.

Also, I am a keen nature enthusiast, and I worry that under pressure from idiots and race card using tantrum throwers like David Lammy MP we will be forced under the 'it's racist you bigots!' rulings to pave over our lovely countryside in order to accommodate people coming in. I enjoy the following areas (among many others) and would hate them to be lost for future generations:

* The Vale Of Pewsey (simply stunning IMO)
* Cranborne Chase
* The Malvern Hills
* The Brecon Beacons
* The Forest Of Bowland
* The Lake District
* The Scottish Highlands

For the right sum of money, I can sadly see them being sold off and the 'Sheeple Folk' demanding it be done too. Pave paradise on the whim of an MP (who will stand to gain big monies) and it will be hard to swallow (or indeed breathe).

That is a very strange post on many levels..........................
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Arguably, we should have less to do with Northern Ireland than the rest of Europe, given that the stretch of water between them and the mainland is wider than between Dover and Calais. Great Britain is even connected to the rest of Europe by a railway line.

Ireland is much further away from the European mainland yet is considerably more Euro-friendly than England. Also true for Scotland.

what are you talking about? We share a common cultural and political heritage with Ireland and Scotland which is less visible with mainland Europe.

 

[radamfi]

what are you talking about? We share a common cultural and political heritage with Ireland and Scotland which is less visible with mainland Europe.

No argument there of course. But people were talking about water being a reason not to be involved with our "closer" neighbours.

 

[miami]

In all fairness, as you are probably aware the stock market has been performing very well, although of course much of this is linked to the weak Pound. And for what its worth whatever you have saved in the bank is absolutely safe as it's protected by the Government. And assuming that your pension funds are linked to the stock market (which as I previously said is performing very well) your pension fund should be performing very well at the moment.

June 1st FTSE100 was at 6100.
Today it's at 6800

Had you had £6100 ($8750) invested in the FTSE in June it would be worth £6,800, or $8500
Had you sold up and invested £6100 in Euro notes and kept them under your bed they would be worth £6,943, or $8600
Had you sold up and invested £6100 invested in the DAX, or €7800, it would be worth €7976, or £7,100, or $8800
Had you sold up and invested £6100 in gold bars (7.25oz) and kept them under your bed they would be worth £7,520, or or $9350

The FTSE100 has lost value on real terms, just not as much as the rest of our assets. We're all being paid far less than we were in June, but some prices have gone down because of it (goods where the cost is mainly UK labour).
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But the clock is set at 2 years post article 50...so the simple case is we lose the benefits and costs. For trade, that means reverting back to WTO. It potentially means back to a visa-based travel system..unless negotiations complete within the 2 yrs.

As I understand it negotiations cannot even start in that two years.
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Arguably, we should have less to do with Northern Ireland than the rest of Europe, given that the stretch of water between them and the mainland is wider than between Dover and Calais.

12 miles I believe to the Mull of Kintyre. 20 from the Stranrarr peninsular.

Dover-Calais on the other hand is longer than both, and the distance from Shetland to even Fair Isle, let alone Orkney, is longer than that.

 

[AlterEgo]

One thing that has not been debated by either Remain or Leave is the issue of population v infrastructure.

Years ago, there was a game called Sim City 2000, and as Mayor of a city you had to ensure that as the population of your city grew you had adequate resources for the residents of that city - electricity, water, transport, jobs etc. If you had too few of these, people would rally against you and demand you be removed from office.

Though the above as a game, in real life we still need the same things - electricity, water, a good transport network, jobs in industry and commerce. The trouble is that by adding people and not increasing the others (the infrastructure) you are going to create problems for the future.

I am one of those who voted for Leave, for two main reasons:

1) I am a gay man (yes, I know - bums to the wall!) and the encroachment of IS into Europe worries me greatly. With it being deemed 'inappropriate' to call out the Muslim rapists in Germany and France (due to Political Correctness no doubt), I am worried that should they get here I will be thrown off the nearest tall building.

When interviewed, 100% of Muslim men said that homosexuality was wrong in their eyes (disappointing, from my point of view, but I can agree to disagree - even with bigots). 52% of these same men said they believe in Sharia punishments against homosexuals (the 'lob them off the roof' solution). Governments cannot say they will protect the homosexual community and also bend over backwards (oooerrr!) in order to appease Muslims demanding Sharia Law. Gays and Muslims (despite what some liberals will tell you) cannot always get along - they are two entirely different cultures.

2) For the reasons above re: Population. When you have +people and no improvements in infrastructure and declining job openings (or where a business is going part to fully automated) just how are these people coming here meant to get money and earn a decent wage? We are adding people, jobs are becoming scarcer and with wages it's a race to the bottom despite the Minimum Wage supposedly being enforced.

Also, I am a keen nature enthusiast, and I worry that under pressure from idiots and race card using tantrum throwers like David Lammy MP we will be forced under the 'it's racist you bigots!' rulings to pave over our lovely countryside in order to accommodate people coming in. I enjoy the following areas (among many others) and would hate them to be lost for future generations:

* The Vale Of Pewsey (simply stunning IMO)
* Cranborne Chase
* The Malvern Hills
* The Brecon Beacons
* The Forest Of Bowland
* The Lake District
* The Scottish Highlands

For the right sum of money, I can sadly see them being sold off and the 'Sheeple Folk' demanding it be done too. Pave paradise on the whim of an MP (who will stand to gain big monies) and it will be hard to swallow (or indeed breathe).

Fascinating insight into the mind of a Brexiter. That's about the most polite thing I can say about that.

 

[miami]

Fascinating insight into the mind of a Brexiter. That's about the most polite thing I can say about that.

The years of underinvestment in infrastructure from successive governments (Labour, Coalition and Tory) led to a leave vote in June.

The fact that leaving the EU won't reduce immigration, and will actually decrease infrastructure being built (especially in the poorest parts of the country) are reasons to vote remain, but for people who see the problems (reduction in infrastructure per head, increase in infrastructure per head), but not the solution (build more infrastructure, which requires more people of working age and in work to pay taxes to fund it, and then requires more people to actually build it), it's easy to think that reducing the number of people would work. Except it wouldn't -- in areas where there are schools with reducing numbers of children, the schools are in danger of closing because they don't have the funding from tax payers to keep them going.

The part about hoards of Polish 'Muslims' marching over here and throwing people off buildings (unlike say Polish 'Christians') is of course crazy talk worthy of Britain First/Daily Mail. Every gay person I know voted remain (but then I only know 3 people under the age of 70 that voted leave).

The "paved over" falicy flys in the face of the reality that 93% of the country is not urban, and when you factor all the "green spaces" in towns and cities, that figure increases to 98% of the country being "not built on".

 

[Railops]

The part about hoards of Polish 'Muslims' marching over here and throwing people off buildings (unlike say Polish 'Christians') is of course crazy talk worthy of Britain First/Daily Mail. Every gay person I know voted remain (but then I only know 3 people under the age of 70 that voted leave).

Of course you only know 3 people under 70 who voted leave.
The more immature members of this forum have mentioned quite a few times that only senile racist pensioners voted leave.It is an absolute fact that doesn't need repeating.

 

[lejog]

Read there's to be a "march" in London on the 23rd November by the Brexit side aghast at the court's ruling.

So that means people who wanted Britain to regain it's sovereignty and total independence of the courts will be demonstrating against Britain regaining it's sovereignty and total independence of the courts.

I wonder what their reaction will be if the CPS agree with a complaint made to it, that the more dubious claims made by the Leave campaign were an attempt to mislead voters, and constitute an offence of “undue influence” under 2006 electoral law. No relevant case law exists yet.
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June 1st FTSE100 was at 6100.
Today it's at 6800

Had you had £6100 ($8750) invested in the FTSE in June it would be worth £6,800, or $8500
Had you sold up and invested £6100 in Euro notes and kept them under your bed they would be worth £6,943, or $8600
Had you sold up and invested £6100 invested in the DAX, or €7800, it would be worth €7976, or £7,100, or $8800
Had you sold up and invested £6100 in gold bars (7.25oz) and kept them under your bed they would be worth £7,520, or or $9350

Indeed, having to manage my own pension fund, I switched out all my remaining UK share holdings to a developed world (excluding UK) fund and my £6100 is now worth £7400. It was £7700 before the Trump effect and the boost in sterling from the court case. Anyway with a welcome 20% boost to my pension fund I can cope with increased inflation and even a holiday in the US, it will be poorer people who are affected most when inflation takes off.

 

[TheKnightWho]

Of course you only know 3 people under 70 who voted leave.
The more immature members of this forum have mentioned quite a few times that only senile racist pensioners voted leave.It is an absolute fact that doesn't need repeating.

Ever the victim, aren't you. Life must be difficult when you're being called a racist - there's just no time to spare for you to think of those who actually suffer from racism with all that thinking about yourself is there!

 

[radamfi]

Racists and anti-Muslims should prefer being in the EU because it boosts the percentage of white Christians in the UK.

 

[Tim R-T-C]

So that means people who wanted Britain to regain it's sovereignty and total independence of the courts will be demonstrating against Britain regaining it's sovereignty and total independence of the courts.

They could always appeal to the European Courts?

:roll:

 

[Railops]

Ever the victim, aren't you. Life must be difficult when you're being called a racist - there's just no time to spare for you to think of those who actually suffer from racism with all that thinking about yourself is there!

I doubt there is a poster on here who has accused others of racism on a regular basis more then you, that says a lot about you.

 

[TheKnightWho]

I doubt there is a poster on here who has accused others of racism on a regular basis more then you, that says a lot about you.

I'm not sure that's true, since I never called all Leavers racist. What does it say about me, though?

The only person who keeps bringing racism into threads is you, because you have a permanent victim complex.

 

[Howardh]

They could always appeal to the European Courts?

:roll:

It's still an option, and would be glorious irony.

 

[125Forever]

Indeed, I'm a Muslim woman who has been in relationships with other Muslimas. When fundamental religious culture is exposed to others, it's possible for a happy medium to be found. Pakistani clerics issued a fatwa declaring transgender marriages legal earlier this year which is very hopeful, especially as Pakistan is majority Sunni.

125Forever's attitude towards nature is understandable but the underlying reasons perplex me. We have a housing crisis at the moment, and the current developers' fetish for semi-luxury apartments and sprawling estates cause a hell of a lot of damage to nature - but those are fine? It's people using the race card to create affordable housing that'll destroy the environment?

I get the feeling 125Forever is the kind of bloke who often starts sentences with "I'm not racist, but"...

A bit of an accusation there, but as a conservative homosexual I suppose I should be used to it, ho hum. Try to point out there is an imbalance with the population-infrastructure and the lynch mobs come a-calling. Hit a nerve did I sweety?

Immaturity aside, if you listen to people like David Attenborough, his message on the problems of Global Population and the fact that Humans are depleting Earth's resources at an alarming rate rings true:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/earth/earthnews/9815862/Humans-are-plague-on-Earth-Attenborough.html

The housing crisis only exists because we have too many people coming here, and no it is not racist to say that because it is not just Muslims from The Jungle coming here but from all over the world (including Caucasians and Asians etc.) You cannot expect the UK to accommodate everybody and there will come a point where we will have to look at partial depopulation (Agenda 21 perhaps). More people coming here to live when infrastructure cannot cope makes no sense, and I wonder if these bleeding heart liberals care more about looking good in the eyes of the media than anything else.

Tell me then, if a town takes on 5,000 migrants but has no room or scope to improve on schools, colleges, industrial and commercial jobs, hospitals, police etc. then what are these 5,000 migrants supposed to do? These migrants (like the rest of us) will need access to these vital facilities, yet when they are stretched to breaking point (5 hours+ waiting times at hospitals across the UK are no uncommon) nobody seems to want to tackle the elephant in the room.

Besides, the word 'racist' is used like a dumb-dumb bullet in order to silence and stifle debate by the militant SJW jazz-handing permanently offended brigade. If you view me as a racist then fine, I can live with that and you know what - I'll be PROUD to be a racist (in your eyes anyway).
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Fascinating insight into the mind of a Brexiter. That's about the most polite thing I can say about that.

Your comment is also fascinating - a great insight into the mind of a Remainer who probably does not have to live in among the mess created by the Global Elites.

#tickedyboointotnes

 

[Domh245]

yet when they are stretched to breaking point (5 hours+ waiting times at hospitals across the UK are no uncommon) nobody seems to want to tackle the elephant in the room.

Would that be the inability of the government to build enough of them?