Class 442s - Now at the end of the road and to be withdrawn permanently

[RobShipway]

Have any Mk1 or Mk2 carriages ever been fitted with BS1363 mains sockets?




1000V is definitely not suitable for charging your phone or laptop.

I have been on many MK1 and Mk2 coaches both on preserved railways and on railtours, but not found any mains sockets unless they are well hidden under the chairs, in which case they are there for cleaning use only.

That having been said, when I have asked the people dealing with the carriages on 'The Watercress' line they tell me that they have to plug in a mains adaptor into a mains socket in say Alresford station to then plug in the Vac cleaner to be able to use it on any of the mk1 coaches that they have in their fleet. I am presuming that the same would need to be done with the Mk2 coaches as well?

 

[BestWestern]

Would this be for passengers to charge up their mobile phones etc...?

Surely, the coaches as trailers would have electricity within them for lighting, but if it is electrical power for other means then I would think that they would not be used in railtours and would be loco hauled on national rail services.

It has been my experience, when being on railtours that the carriages used are taken back to the basics that they were introduced with when new, which would mean that there would not be any plug sockets for passengers to use on the class 442 trailers as they did not exist when the class 442's where introduced.

No I meant the train supply, in response to an earlier post asking why would you want to connect them to a locomotive ETS output.

 

[RobShipway]

Would I be correct in thinking the class 442 trailers are only electrical heated and could not be used with being steam heated?

 

[SWTCommuter]

Would I be correct in thinking the class 442 trailers are only electrical heated and could not be used with being steam heated?

Yes, they have air-conditioning.

 

[Ash Bridge]

Has there ever been such a thing as a steam heated EMU?

 

[D365]

Has there ever been such a thing as a steam heated EMU?

The Class 442s could easily be heated by the steam and froth of countless 'enthusiasts'

 

[CosherB]

Would this be for passengers to charge up their mobile phones etc...?

Surely, the coaches as trailers would have electricity within them for lighting, but if it is electrical power for other means then I would think that they would not be used in railtours and would be loco hauled on national rail services.

It has been my experience, when being on railtours that the carriages used are taken back to the basics that they were introduced with when new, which would mean that there would not be any plug sockets for passengers to use on the class 442 trailers as they did not exist when the class 442's where introduced.

I'm doubt the likes of WCRC's and Riviera's carriages are "taken back to the basics that they were introduced with when new" - they just carry on using them as per their last mainline TOC. For example, a Virgin liveried Mk2 run by Riviera will have exactly the same interior fixtures, fittings, seat upholstery and floor coverings as they did when VTWC/VTXC last used them.

I doubt the future use of AGA Mk3s on charter operations will involve ripping out the CET!!!

Would I be correct in thinking the class 442 trailers are only electrical heated and could not be used with being steam heated?

Is this a wind-up? hock:

 

[Ash Bridge]

The Class 442s could easily be heated by the steam and froth of countless 'enthusiasts'

Ha Ha, yes probably

Is this a wind-up? hock:

Most probably not.

 

[bastien]

And yet they've recently has a droplight related death...

Take out the motor coach. No more droplights (not big ones, anyway).

 

[RobShipway]

I'm doubt the likes of WCRC's and Riviera's carriages are "taken back to the basics that they were introduced with when new" - they just carry on using them as per their last mainline TOC. For example, a Virgin liveried Mk2 run by Riviera will have exactly the same interior fixtures, fittings, seat upholstery and floor coverings as they did when VTWC/VTXC last used them.

I doubt the future use of AGA Mk3s on charter operations will involve ripping out the CET!!!



Is this a wind-up? hock:

Why do you suspect that it is a wind up? I am someone that does not work within the rail industry and is honest in saying that I do not know all aspects of how some engineering has been done with some of the train stock within the UK.

Also, i was always told never to take something for granted. The class MK1 and Mk2 coaches when some steam trains still existed on the National Rail network, but by the time the Mk3's had arrived in the mid 1970's there was no more steam engines around, so I was not taking for granted that the Mk3's would still have the same capability as the MK1 & Mk2 coaches to be steam heated to be available to them, hence the question.

 

[Ash Bridge]

Why do you suspect that it is a wind up? I am someone that does not work within the rail industry and is honest in saying that I do not know all aspects of how some engineering has been done with some of the train stock within the UK.

Also, i was always told never to take something for granted. The class MK1 and Mk2 coaches when some steam trains still existed on the National Rail network, but by the time the Mk3's had arrived in the mid 1970's there was no more steam engines around, so I was not taking for granted that the Mk3's would still have the same capability as the MK1 & Mk2 coaches to be steam heated to be available to them, hence the question.

It was actually only the early couple of series of mk2 stock that was dual-heated, most were electric only.

 

[spark001uk]

Why do you suspect that it is a wind up? I am someone that does not work within the rail industry and is honest in saying that I do not know all aspects of how some engineering has been done with some of the train stock within the UK.

I knew what you meant. I'm afraid it seems with forums in general there always seems to be one or two with a tendancy to shoot you down if you don't know as much as them! It's like the nay-sayers of the 442 for example, in my eyes it begs the question; if you don't like them, why are you in here??

 

[43096]

Why do you suspect that it is a wind up? I am someone that does not work within the rail industry and is honest in saying that I do not know all aspects of how some engineering has been done with some of the train stock within the UK.

Oh come on. We're talking about ELECTRIC multiple units and ELECTRIC heating. Why would you even consider using steam heat? Just thinking about it before posting would give you the answer.

 

[spark001uk]

Oh come on. We're talking about ELECTRIC multiple units and ELECTRIC heating. Why would you even consider using steam heat? Just thinking about it before posting would give you the answer.

OK, but it has also been mentioned - quite a bit, the possibility of them being used as charter loco hauled stock. So it wouldn't be the slightest bit possible someone without technical knowledge of coaching stock, to be curious if coaches (which, although part of an EMU, have frequently been referred to on here as mk3 stock), had the facility of being heated by a steam loco for example, no? I'm not trying to be a vigilante here, but not everyone has the knowledge of such things. Hence one would assume it'd be OK to ask the question and get a straight answer.

 

[fgwrich]

I'm doubt the likes of WCRC's and Riviera's carriages are "taken back to the basics that they were introduced with when new" - they just carry on using them as per their last mainline TOC. For example, a Virgin liveried Mk2 run by Riviera will have exactly the same interior fixtures, fittings, seat upholstery and floor coverings as they did when VTWC/VTXC last used them.

:

A statement rather proven by the many ex Riviera Mk2s running around for DRS/ScotRail which still internally advertises many of the long since changed or gone Virgin XC and WC loco hauled routes and services!

 

[RobShipway]

OK, but it has also been mentioned - quite a bit, the possibility of them being used as charter loco hauled stock. So it wouldn't be the slightest bit possible someone without technical knowledge of coaching stock, to be curious if coaches (which, although part of an EMU, have frequently been referred to on here as mk3 stock), had the facility of being heated by a steam loco for example, no? I'm not trying to be a vigilante here, but not everyone has the knowledge of such things. Hence one would assume it'd be OK to ask the question and get a straight answer.

Thank you.....

 

[spark001uk]

A statement rather proven by the many ex Riviera Mk2s running around for DRS/ScotRail which still internally advertises many of the long since changed or gone Virgin XC and WC loco hauled routes and services!

Not to mention the rakes I've seen on tours displaying their original liveries! Saw one only couple of weeks back leaving Euston, it had arriva, virgin, intercity and blue/grey all in one rake!

 

[AnonymousUser1]

The Class 442s could easily be heated by the steam and froth of countless 'enthusiasts'

indeed

 

[D1009]

Has there ever been such a thing as a steam heated EMU?

Not as far as I know, but some of the Manchester - Sheffield electric locos had steam heating boilers.

 

[SPADTrap]

Is it true the 442s will be used again by an open access operator from Waterloo?

 

[221129]

Is it true the 442s will be used again by an open access operator from Waterloo?

It's a proposal. Nothing more as yet.

 

[43074]

Is it true the 442s will be used again by an open access operator from Waterloo?

There's a proposal from Alliance for 7 trains per day between Waterloo & Southampton using 442s from December 2018... I can't see how it will ever happen, can't imagine they'll get such a proposal past the 'primarily abstractive' test.

Thread about it here: http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=137739

 

[Dave1987]

I'm curious about something on this thread. I'm sure I read on here not so long ago posts from people that were absolutely positive that these trains were heading for the scrap yards, they have no purpose anymore, are useless etc etc. Yet I've just read that they are going to be refurbished by there owners. So why were some absolutely certain that they were heading for the scrapyard and those people lambasting others who thought they still had a use?

 

[RobShipway]

I'm curious about something on this thread. I'm sure I read on here not so long ago posts from people that were absolutely positive that these trains were heading for the scrap yards, they have no purpose anymore, are useless etc etc. Yet I've just read that they are going to be refurbished by there owners. So why were some absolutely certain that they were heading for the scrapyard and those people lambasting others who thought they still had a use?

The class 442 units use traction motors and electrical control gear which were salvaged from the Class 432 trains built in the 1960's within the driving coaches, so this equipment is well over 40 years old now. For this reason, people believe that the class 442 trains should be scrapped.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

I'm curious about something on this thread. I'm sure I read on here not so long ago posts from people that were absolutely positive that these trains were heading for the scrap yards, they have no purpose anymore, are useless etc etc. Yet I've just read that they are going to be refurbished by there owners. So why were some absolutely certain that they were heading for the scrapyard and those people lambasting others who thought they still had a use?

The traction equipment is basically life expired so for them to be being refurbished it points towards their owners wanting them used as loco hauled stock. They can never be converted to AC as you'd compromise the crash structure and the motor coach probably wouldn't be able to take the weight of a transformer.

 

[IanXC]

Have any Mk1 or Mk2 carriages ever been fitted with BS1363 mains sockets.

Don't the Caledonian Sleeper Mark 2 Lounge Cars have a couple?

 

[Emblematic]

Have any Mk1 or Mk2 carriages ever been fitted with BS1363 mains sockets?

Some of the NZ rebuilt Mk2s have 230V power outlets. Not BS1363 though!

 

[D365]

I'm curious about something on this thread. I'm sure I read on here not so long ago posts from people that were absolutely positive that these trains were heading for the scrap yards, they have no purpose anymore, are useless etc etc. Yet I've just read that they are going to be refurbished by there owners. So why were some absolutely certain that they were heading for the scrapyard and those people lambasting others who thought they still had a use?

The class 442 units use traction motors and electrical control gear which were salvaged from the Class 432 trains built in the 1960's within the driving coaches, so this equipment is well over 40 years old now. For this reason, people believe that the class 442 trains should be scrapped.

Might not also the fact that LHCS conversion is more expensive than bringing the Mk3s up to date, play a factor in this..?

Also because most of their 'ideas' for reuse are totally bonkers.

 

[spark001uk]

The traction equipment is basically life expired so for them to be being refurbished it points towards their owners wanting them used as loco hauled stock. They can never be converted to AC as you'd compromise the crash structure and the motor coach probably wouldn't be able to take the weight of a transformer.

The EE546 traction motors were overhauled and re-geared prior to installation in the 442s by the way. So not wholly 1960s parts.

 

[daikilo]

The EE546 traction motors were overhauled and re-geared prior to installation in the 442s by the way. So not wholly 1960s parts.

Exactly. The issue here, apart from whether paths are actually available and/or whether trains running in them will abstract revenue from selected TOCs, is whether using equipment which others consider life-expired is relevant. The answer must be yes, if a model can be created. In this particular case it seems highly doubtful for the other reasons, but the principle remains valid.

Indeed, if an open access operator bought Pacers, made them compliant and obtained open access rights without revenue astraction, in theory nothing could stop them.