Class 442’s for ATW?

[Envoy]

It has been reported that the Welsh Government / ATW are considering acquiring some Class 442’s to be loco hauled on long distance services to free up other stock for cascading to slower routes.
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/old-gatwick-express-trains-could-12237415
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Passengers crammed into Welsh trains could get more elbow room next year if spare rolling stock from the Gatwick Express is transferred to Arriva Trains Wales.

ATW and the Welsh Government are not ruling out using some of the surplus trains to tackle the growing problem of overcrowding – which has left some passengers unable to board at their local station.

The situation has put paid to any previous thoughts that ATW would be able to manage without additional trains until the next franchise starts in October 2018.

Welsh infrastructure secretary Ken Skates said this month that officials were now talking to the rail industry in the hope of securing a short-term boost to the train fleet.

 

[MatthewRead]

I thought Alliance Rail had shown an interest in using them on a new Waterloo-Southampton service.

 

[Bletchleyite]

There are enough of them for both.

 

[Gareth Marston]

It has been reported that the Welsh Government / ATW are considering acquiring some Class 442’s to be loco hauled on long distance services to free up other stock for cascading to slower routes.
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/old-gatwick-express-trains-could-12237415
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Passengers crammed into Welsh trains could get more elbow room next year if spare rolling stock from the Gatwick Express is transferred to Arriva Trains Wales.

ATW and the Welsh Government are not ruling out using some of the surplus trains to tackle the growing problem of overcrowding – which has left some passengers unable to board at their local station.

The situation has put paid to any previous thoughts that ATW would be able to manage without additional trains until the next franchise starts in October 2018.

Welsh infrastructure secretary Ken Skates said this month that officials were now talking to the rail industry in the hope of securing a short-term boost to the train fleet./PHP][/QUOTE]

The Welsh Government "talking" and actually doing something are of course two completely different things! - though I suspect Rhodri Clarks piece is more about embarrassing them than reporting on what there doing. 

look what the Welsh Government could do to sort out the problem.....

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Would they be top'n'tailed?

What loco class would probably get used to haul it?

 

[43096]

I thought Alliance Rail had shown an interest in using them on a new Waterloo-Southampton service.

And the chances of that service actually starting are what exactly?

 

[grumblingalong]

Would they be top'n'tailed?

What loco class would probably get used to haul it?

Plenty of 67s looking for work

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Plenty of 67s looking for work

67s were my first thought, seeing as they hauled TPO trains so can power onboard stuff it's possible that they could haul 442s without either needing a rewire

 

[47802]

Would they be top'n'tailed?

What loco class would probably get used to haul it?

67's would be most likely given there are plenty not doing very much and DB supply the existing Arriva Loco Hauled Services. As for Top and Tailed I guess it depends whether you want to spend the money making making the 442 cab work with the AAR system.

 

[jamieP]

67's would be most likely given there are plenty not doing very much and DB supply the existing Arriva Loco Hauled Services. As for Top and Tailed I guess it depends whether you want to spend the money making making the 442 cab work with the AAR system.

Theres a rumour going round that a 47 has been made to work with 442s at Ely.

JP

 

[gimmea50anyday]

Thats probably more for shunting purposes than actual remote cab operation as the bagpipes do. Then again anything is possible...

 

[SeanG]

Would the new 73/9s still be compatible and if so are there any spare?

 

[59CosG95]

Would the new 73/9s still be compatible and if so are there any spare?

The Caledonian ones are probably staying put on their patch. Not sure whether GBRf would loan 961-965 out for pax work, but 73s used to happily run around on the juice down sarf so it's always a possibility, however slim it may be in this case.

 

[CosherB]

It is alleged online elsewhere that the '47+442' combo was driven from the 442 cab at Ely for testing.

Having said that, why anyone would consider anything other than a 67 for this 'proposal' mystifies me.

 

[dgl]

This looks very worrying, wibble on this forum MUST NOT become reality.

This year everything that supposedly won't/can't happen is.

 

[DarloRich]

It is alleged online elsewhere that the '47+442' combo was driven from the 442 cab at Ely for testing.

Having said that, why anyone would consider anything other than a 67 for this 'proposal' mystifies me.

proof of concept demonstration?

 

[ainsworth74]

And the chances of that service actually starting are what exactly?

Close to zero but if anyone else wants to discuss this further please use the existing thread here

 

[DarloRich]

should we not just open a thread that says (list of TOC) looking at using 442's and delete TOC's as required?

 

[Blindtraveler]

Assume the traction gubbins would be stripped out first? Good news if this does happen as the 175s are I understand stretched to breaking point and so a few of these on Manchester Cardiff and North Wales would work wonders.

 

[Townsend Hook]

The Caledonian ones are probably staying put on their patch. Not sure whether GBRf would loan 961-965 out for pax work, but 73s used to happily run around on the juice down sarf so it's always a possibility, however slim it may be in this case.

961-965 tend to be fairly well occupied on Network Rail contracts, so I'd be surprised if any of them were put to work for ATW.

 

[59CosG95]

This looks very worrying, wibble on this forum MUST NOT become reality.

This year everything that supposedly won't/can't happen is.

Yep, all the celebrity deaths, the election outcomes, the projects stalling...next thing we know, FirstGroup'll be running a taxi service!

 

[Aws87024]

GBRF have taken on some 47's, do these have work lined up of might they be connected to the 442's for Wales...

 

[43096]

GBRF have taken on some 47's, do these have work lined up of might they be connected to the 442's for Wales...

67s has to be the choice. Using knackered 50 year old spoons is not the way forward.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

One thing is for certain - nothing will happen unless WG pays for it.
WG has 4 pre-qualified bidders for the next franchise, and said it would produce an ITT for them to offer service proposals and a rolling stock plan.
Where is it?

 

[Gareth Marston]

One thing is for certain - nothing will happen unless WG pays for it.
WG has 4 pre-qualified bidders for the next franchise, and said it would produce an ITT for them to offer service proposals and a rolling stock plan.
Where is it?

There's plenty that can be done but of course it's rabbits in the headlights time once more down at the Bay and Cathays Park.

 

[gareth950]

So IF this happens, freed up 175s are only suitable for long distance routes, so how does this proposal benefit shorter distance routes, specifically the valleys, which specifically need 150/2s from elsewhere in ATWs existing fleet to help with overcrowding?
Wales has much bigger capacity problems than a few 442s can solve.

A while back Wales Online carried an article saying D-trains were on the way to save Wales from overcowding............:roll:

No mention of the GWR 143s that are going off lease next May that could head immediately to the valleys, no modifications or staff training needed. Are GWR still releasing their 143s next May or has that been put off now due to delays in stock cascades from elsewhere?

 

[43074]

No mention of the GWR 143s that are going off lease next May that could head immediately to the valleys, no modifications or staff training needed. Are GWR still releasing their 143s next May or has that been put off now due to delays in stock cascades from elsewhere?

I believe that's now been put back to 2019, so probably won't be much help to the Wales and Borders franchisee (whoever it will be then).

 

[Train wasp]

I thought Alliance Rail had shown an interest in using them on a new Waterloo-Southampton service.

I also hear 442's could be part of the next SWT franchise. This is getting confusing. Are they going to spread out across the network.

 

[gareth950]

I believe that's now been put back to 2019, so probably won't be much help to the Wales and Borders franchisee (whoever it will be then).

According to https://www.porterbrook.co.uk/rolling-stock/lease-end-dates states the GWR 143s are going off lease on 31-07-2017? Is that now wrong then? GWR made such a fuss about being the first TOC in the UK to be getting rid of their Pacers next year!

 

[craigybagel]

So IF this happens, freed up 175s are only suitable for long distance routes, so how does this proposal benefit shorter distance routes, specifically the valleys, which specifically need 150/2s from elsewhere in ATWs existing fleet to help with overcrowding?
Wales has much bigger capacity problems than a few 442s can solve.

A while back Wales Online carried an article saying D-trains were on the way to save Wales from overcowding............:roll:

No mention of the GWR 143s that are going off lease next May that could head immediately to the valleys, no modifications or staff training needed. Are GWR still releasing their 143s next May or has that been put off now due to delays in stock cascades from elsewhere?

Plenty of non valleys routes currently using 150s that could use 175s instead. Cheltenham, Maesteg, Pembroke, Crewe-Chester shuttle, even the Heart of Wales. Possibly not the most ideal use for 175s but if it frees units for the valleys and increases capacity on the marches I don't think anyone would be complaining.

Not that I think for a second it'll actually happen.....as much as I'd love it to both for personal and professional reasons.