Thameslink/ Class 700 Progress

[bramling]

The other problem is the inherent unreliability of the BML route as a whole.

Oh dear.

I thought that was a figment of my imagination ...

Very reassuring for the future - not. (But I already knew that).

 

[Alteran Ancient]

(going via Hernia Hill does eat up train crew and unit time - one looks forward to the fast dash from London Bridge - East Croydon in 2018)

Well... I can't say I've seen that nickname for Herne Hill before. How about "Herne Hell"?

The Victoria to Ramsgate train is obviously more important than the Thameslink services through here - at least as far as the signaller is concerned! I've been through Herne Hill on numerous occasions and frequently see a TL service parked on one of the outside platforms, waiting for the Victoria services to pass through first.

Reminds me of this wonderful article that I discovered not too long ago.

 

[urpert]

Well... I can't say I've seen that nickname for Herne Hill before. How about "Herne Hell"?

The Victoria to Ramsgate train is obviously more important than the Thameslink services through here - at least as far as the signaller is concerned! I've been through Herne Hill on numerous occasions and frequently see a TL service parked on one of the outside platforms, waiting for the Victoria services to pass through first.

Reminds me of this wonderful article that I discovered not too long ago.

At the moment it's also almost unheard of for a Vic - Orpington stopper not to be held at the signal just north of Herne Hill while something else gets out of the way. Not quite so bad in the other direction, for some reason.

 

[Bedpan]

Or then go the whole hog and call it "Hernia Hell"

 

[swt class 450]

The 22:22 Bedford to Brighton 01:03 was a 387 instead of a 700 again last night. I presume this means there was a problem with the 700 that was meant to be working this?

 

[JonathanH]

The 22:22 Bedford to Brighton 01:03 was a 387 instead of a 700 again last night. I presume this means there was a problem with the 700 that was meant to be working this?

Difficult to tell because there are movements in and out of Bedford CS at that time but possibly looks like the 21:52 was cancelled and the 387s off that used for the 22:22 with the 700 staying in Bedford.

Presumably a lot of cancellations leads to a need to ensure that the stock is balanced at the end of the day. Also, three of the 700/0 diagrams work from Bedford CS from Monday (as opposed to only one having been scheduled to finish there on Friday) so there need to be sufficient in place for that purpose (especially with the 'core' shut tomorrow).

 

[swt class 450]

Difficult to tell because there are movements in and out of Bedford CS at that time but possibly looks like the 21:52 was cancelled and the 387s off that used for the 22:22 with the 700 staying in Bedford.

Presumably a lot of cancellations leads to a need to ensure that the stock is balanced at the end of the day. Also, three of the 700/0 diagrams work from Bedford CS from Monday (as opposed to only one having been scheduled to finish there on Friday) so there need to be sufficient in place for that purpose (especially with the 'core' shut tomorrow).

Ok. That makes sense. Out of interest do you have any idea what caused the previous train to be cancelled?

 

[infobleep]

I was under the impression that one a 700 one first class area I'd declassified. Is that the case? If so, should the internal indicator boards not be working, does that mean both ends are first class?

The 13.12 from London Bridge today is the service I'm talking about.

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

 

[Mike395]

I was under the impression that one a 700 one first class area I'd declassified. Is that the case? If so, should the internal indicator boards not be working, does that mean both ends are first class?

The 13.12 from London Bridge today is the service I'm talking about.

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

From what I was told on their last Passenger Panel consultation, the rear (in direction of travel) First Class compartment is always declassified regardless on Class 700 stock (as each compartment is basically twice the size of that on the 377/387s), and they'll review this once all the 700s are in service.

My reading of that is they're planning to make both ends First Class once passengers have no other stock to compare the relative amount of First Class seating to!

 

[infobleep]

Thanks for that. I didn't wish to chance though as there was nothing to say it was declassified and looking at a timetable wouldn't help as the service has first class.

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

 

[Alteran Ancient]

Right on cue today, I saw two 700s on the Chatham ML heading via Blackfriars. One I passed at Penge East at approx. 1742, the Beckenham Jn to Bedford running almost 10 minutes down, and another at Bromley South at approx. 1749, almost 20 down.

Before the 700 Luddites come out from the shadows, I'll remind you that there have been signaling problems at Sevenoaks today, which has caused a lot of disruption.

I even saw a Class 376 running empty through Bromley at 1750, which is a rare sight nowadays, so today has been an exciting day indeed.

 

[mrchristopher]

I hadn't planned this, but today I managed to catch one of the first 700 operated services on the Catford loop. The 1539 from City Thameslink to Sevenoaks.

 

[jon0844]

Thanks for that. I didn't wish to chance though as there was nothing to say it was declassified and looking at a timetable wouldn't help as the service has first class.

Keep this bookmarked.

https://twitter.com/jmcomms/status/778213505476530177

Might not help in court, mind.

 

[Deepgreen]

It occurs to me that, as the declassification of the rear first class is only denoted by a brief visual message (nothing audible) as one of the numerous messages shown on the internal screens (nothing outside indicates this), it is very likely that people who might wish to use the de-classified section will not even know of the situation unless they are glued to the screens for minutes at a time in the rear first class section. People in other parts of the train won't know that they can use the rear section, either, making the declassification near pointless. Another opportunity to provide a clear and useful declassification indication has been missed - will the designers never understand how passengers actually behave and how information should be presented?

 

[JonathanH]

It occurs to me that, as the declassification of the rear first class is only denoted by a brief visual message (nothing audible) as one of the numerous messages shown on the internal screens (nothing outside indicates this), it is very likely that people who might wish to use the de-classified section will not even know of the situation unless they are glued to the screens for minutes at a time in the rear first class section. People in other parts of the train won't know that they can use the rear section, either, making the declassification near pointless. Another opportunity to provide a clear and useful declassification indication has been missed - will the designers never understand how passengers actually behave and how information should be presented?

Does it really matter? On the existing 377/5s, how many people with a standard class ticket make a specific point to travel in the declassified compartment in the 736xx vehicle? How many people on Sutton loop or Sevenoaks services aim for the first class area when a 319/4 turns up? They just don't. Most commuters just wait on the platform in a place they are comfortable with position of station entrances, exits, toilets, level of passenger loading all part of the consideration.

On most off-peak trains formed of 700s there is ample other accommodation. On peak trains, maybe there will be enough people who know that the rear compartment is declassified that they will fill it up without needing to advertise it more. Eventually, people will know by word of mouth that the area is available for standard passengers.

And, you can't have anything more visible than the internal screens because when the train reaches its destination first class is at the opposite end.

 

[urpert]

Right on cue today, I saw two 700s on the Chatham ML heading via Blackfriars. One I passed at Penge East at approx. 1742, the Beckenham Jn to Bedford running almost 10 minutes down, and another at Bromley South at approx. 1749, almost 20 down.

Before the 700 Luddites come out from the shadows, I'll remind you that there have been signaling problems at Sevenoaks today, which has caused a lot of disruption.

I even saw a Class 376 running empty through Bromley at 1750, which is a rare sight nowadays, so today has been an exciting day indeed.

Exciting indeed. I wonder what the 376 was up to?

 

[Class377/5]

The 22:22 Bedford to Brighton 01:03 was a 387 instead of a 700 again last night. I presume this means there was a problem with the 700 that was meant to be working this?

Driver no cover issues.

 

[tsr]

A 700 failed at Nunhead today with various electrical and door issues, which took some time to resolve.

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G73838/2016/11/29/advanced

 

[Alteran Ancient]

Exciting indeed. I wonder what the 376 was up to?

If I had to take a guess, it could have been a move related to the signal problems. The move never showed up on RTT, so I couldn't say where it was destined. All I can tell you is that it was a pair of 376s showing as "Out of Service", and the rear unit was 376 015.

Probably not for this thread, though. :P

 

[asylumxl]

A 700 failed at Nunhead today with various electrical and door issues, which took some time to resolve.

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G73838/2016/11/29/advanced

Assuming this was the cause of delays around 5-6pm?

 

[tsr]

Assuming this was the cause of delays around 5-6pm?

Quite possibly, though it depends exactly where you were on the SE or TL networks! A few other incidents also occurred here and there throughout the afternoon.

 

[asylumxl]

Quite possibly, though it depends exactly where you were on the SE or TL networks! A few other incidents also occurred here and there throughout the afternoon.

I was waiting for a Bedford service coming from Beckenham Junction.

 

[GMT]

A 700 failed at Nunhead today with various electrical and door issues, which took some time to resolve.

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G73838/2016/11/29/advanced

This was my experience of it yesterday.

Apologies, I didn't realise there was already a thread about class 700.

 

[tsr]

I was waiting for a Bedford service coming from Beckenham Junction.

Well, a brief glance at RTT leads me to believe that the delay you experienced was likely to have been down to congestion caused by the stock being delayed by preceding trains, in turn being held at stations before being diverted around the problem with the 700. So basically yes!

 

[Alteran Ancient]

Another update from the land of Kent.

2E47 was terminated at Bromley South today, due to a problem with the doors, resulting in the cancellation of 1E98.

The 1H66 Bedford to Beckenham was run by a 387 today instead of a 700. Was a bit underwhelmed, as I actually left earlier today to go and check it out.

 

[tsr]

2E47 has failed again tonight, at Nunhead again, with a door fault again. Albeit a slightly different fault.

 

[asylumxl]

2E47 has failed again tonight, at Nunhead again, with a door fault again. Albeit a slightly different fault.

Is it an actual fault or the drivers being unfamiliar with how to fix certain issues?

 

[AM9]

With the start of class 700s on SE routes it seems that the problems with doors opening are back. I doubt that the doors on these trains are actually faulty otherwise there would be the old problems returning to the MML part of those diagrams. Could this just be the same as the original BML/MML issues where either the optimum stopping positions need to be learnt, or the door operation reprogrammed?

 

[bengley]

With the start of class 700s on SE routes it seems that the problems with doors opening are back. I doubt that the doors on these trains are actually faulty otherwise there would be the old problems returning to the MML part of those diagrams. Could this just be the same as the original BML/MML issues where either the optimum stopping positions need to be learnt, or the door operation reprogrammed?

The only place where stopping positions are important is the core.

Also 1W55 4 vice 12 700 today so another issue there by the looks of things.

 

[Class377/5]

I was waiting for a Bedford service coming from Beckenham Junction.

700 ran into an issue at Nunhead while a SE service had problems in the Sydenham Hill line at the same time.

2E47 has failed again tonight, at Nunhead again, with a door fault again. Albeit a slightly different fault.

Same issue.

Is it an actual fault or the drivers being unfamiliar with how to fix certain issues?

Not sure actual cause will be public.

With the start of class 700s on SE routes it seems that the problems with doors opening are back. I doubt that the doors on these trains are actually faulty otherwise there would be the old problems returning to the MML part of those diagrams. Could this just be the same as the original BML/MML issues where either the optimum stopping positions need to be learnt, or the door operation reprogrammed?

It's was second day of running with 4 services a day each way and on the 2nd and 3rd day units came to grief. Or 2 out of 12 workings so far.