Teenager abused by Northernrail customer service

[wingsoveryorks]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-emails-passenger-complained-ticket-fine.html

A train company contractor sent a string of abusive emails to a passenger who had complained about over a fine for failing to pay for a ticket.

One message warned shocked Thomas Sykes: 'Do not insult me or I will cause serious discomfort in your life.'
Mr Sykes, 19, from Stockport, was branded a 'k***' and a 'w*****' during a barrage of about 50 emails sent late on Sunday, November 20.

The contractor which operates Northern Rail's customer services is now investigating.

Mr Sykes had reluctantly paid an £80 fine after he had failed to pay the £3.10 fare for a train journey he took from Burnage to Manchester Piccadilly on June 17.

He said someone at the ticket office at Burnage had told him and other passengers to get on the train and pay on board or they would miss the service.

Mr Sykes tried to pay for the ticket when he arrived at his destination but instead was handed a fixed penalty notice....

Come on son. You had plenty of time to buy a ticket from the conductor on board. Why didn't you? Only a fool would sit there 'dumb, fat, and happy' knowing you might get fined for turning up at the other end without one. Mind you, people do, I witness it myself everyday. Peoples behaviour at times is astonishing.
Even if the booking office staff told you to buy a ticket on board, which they could well have done so you weren't late for work, you should have done so.(The clues are there BUY IT ONBOARD) They were trying to help you, so help yourself next time and stop acting like what you were accused of being. Some people are beyond help, they really are.

As for Carillion. This is what you get when you value staff so much you treat them to the minimum wage. There really is truth in the saying 'If you pay peanuts you get monkeys' Carillion are a joke like STM are. Arriva in getting into bed with Carillion have gone for the lowest common denominator, enjoy.

 

[yorkie]

... if the booking office staff told you to buy a ticket on board...

Rubbish. If you are told to buy on board that doesn't mean you have to go knocking on the Guard's door.

If true, this shows how flawed Northern Rail's persecutions are.

... Carillion are a joke like STM are...

Agreed! But it seems that's the way Northern like it.

 

[route:oxford]

Oops

Ah well, someone will have to fill in a risk-event report.

 

[bb21]

I'd take the story with a pinch of salt, although if that were the truth, then it is clearly unacceptable. The member of staff responsible will expect to be dealt with in line with company policy, as such behaviour brings the company into disrepute. You cannot abuse a customer simply because he was a tw*t.

I wouldn't rule out the possibility of the account being compromised.

No one can be that stupid, surely, as these things are all traceable, although I can't rule that out either as I have no knowledge of staff involved there.

 

[AlterEgo]

The abusive messages were sent from an iPhone. Taking this one with several pinches of salt.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

I'd take the story with a pinch of salt, although if that were the truth, then it is clearly unacceptable. The member of staff responsible will expect to be dealt with in line with company policy, as such behaviour brings the company into disrepute. You cannot abuse a customer simply because he was a tw*t....

Northern management can't do anything to Carillion staff, I'm unsure how bothered Carillion management would be about it.

....I wouldn't rule out the possibility of the account being compromised....

Certainly possible, especially if the response was within 20 days.

....No one can be that stupid, surely, as these things are all traceable, although I can't rule that out either as I have no knowledge of staff involved there.

Never rule out someone's stupidity, even 'really clever people' are capable of insanely stupid things.

 

[a_c_skinner]

Which is never appropriate my modest experience of Northern, both before and after the franchise change, is that on train staff are not always assiduous in selling or checking tickets. Arnside to Lancaster is a short trip but TPE could reliably sell tickets whereas Northern often left (leaves even) me making a trip to the Lancaster ticket office. (The LHCS sets seem to be better for this but I've an idea there is another staff member because of passengers' inability to shut doors.) Obviously the guard might be involved in safety related duties (which is what customer service always said when I complained) but I did find that a difficult explanation for a Carnforth to Skipton trip where the guard was not seen on revenue duties for the whole trip up to the crew change at Skipton. No one selling tickets is plausible.

 

[yorkie]

It's a standard copy & paste reply; it can be true but common sense says it's unlikely in the situation described. Other reasons can include no functioning ticket machine. There can be all sorts of genuine and understandable reasons but sometimes there isnt. Either way, it is understandable that there may be opportunity on the train. But it boils down to Northern refusing to believe that authorisation was given to board the train without a ticket. What happened on the train is an irrelevance. But it's difficult to prove this one either way.

However, regardless of rights and wrongs, the company and its contractors have a duty to ensure data is protected and any correspondence is professional (and legal!)

No matter what anyone thinks of a customer, you have to be professional.

I do have concerns about the contracting out of these services by Northern and I know many passengers and rail staff alike have similar concerns.

 

[Greenback]

Data protection is, and should be a prime concern. If, and I stress that this is only an 'if', staff have taken the contact details and then sent messages privately 'after hours' then that is unacceptable even if they are not abusive. If they are abusive then obviously that's even more serious.

 

[AlterEgo]

Data protection is, and should be a prime concern. If, and I stress that this is only an 'if', staff have taken the contact details and then sent messages privately 'after hours' then that is unacceptable even if they are not abusive. If they are abusive then obviously that's even more serious.

Indeed, if it is true, the staff member may even have committed a criminal offence.

 

[Howardh]

Has it actually got to the point now where every passenger has to record the whole journey on go-pro so if there is a problem with guards not coming round to collect tickets resulting in the above situation, the pax can simply say to anyone challenging the ticket at the far end "OK, go ahead, see you in court, I've got the footage"?

Of course one way round this is for every train to offer free wifi wherever possible (if we can't have ticket machines on trains) so pax can buy at their seat. Of course, not everyone has a phone/tablet that can do that - or are even able to.

 

[northwichcat]

The abusive messages were sent from an iPhone. Taking this one with several pinches of salt.

It's entirely possible for someone to have their work email set up on their own phone and then maybe to go in and respond to emails in an inappropriate manner while not working and after drinking alcohol. Although, I'm under the impression all incoming and outgoing emails for Northern customer relations go from a generic mailbox and they have a case reference in the subject line.

 

[Greenback]

Indeed, if it is true, the staff member may even have committed a criminal offence.

Quite so. Although it's still a pretty big 'if' in my eyes.

 

[northwichcat]

Of course one way round this is for every train to offer free wifi wherever possible (if we can't have ticket machines on trains) so pax can buy at their seat. Of course, not everyone has a phone/tablet that can do that - or are even able to.

Don't suggest that! Northern do have to offer free wifi on all trains by 2020 so they'll start threatening people with prosecution because their phone had a flat battery or the route they were travelling on has an intermittent data signal and they lost internet before they finished purchasing and activating a ticket.

 

[AlterEgo]

It's entirely possible for someone to have their work email set up on their own phone and then maybe to go in and respond to emails in an inappropriate manner while not working and after drinking alcohol. Although, I'm under the impression all incoming and outgoing emails go from a generic mailbox and they have a case reference in the subject line.

Very unlikely in this case. The CRM system can't be accessed from an iPhone. Either it is a huge wind up (I am wavering on this side tbh), or some idiot staff member has sent loads of mean messages from their own phone using their own email account.

If I ever had wanted to troll a customer for being an idiot, sending them emails off my own phone wouldn't be the way I'd do it, that's for sure.

 

[northwichcat]

or some idiot staff member has sent loads of mean messages from their own phone using their own email account.

If I ever had wanted to troll a customer for being an idiot, sending them emails off my own phone wouldn't be the way I'd do it, that's for sure.

That's possible. Also you don't have to provide proof of your name to set up an email account so if it's from say [email protected] and there's no Bill Smith who works there that doesn't prove it hasn't come from someone who works there or if there is a Bill Smith who works there it doesn't prove he sent the emails.

 

[DarloRich]

I'd take the story with a pinch of salt, although if that were the truth, then it is clearly unacceptable. The member of staff responsible will expect to be dealt with in line with company policy, as such behaviour brings the company into disrepute. You cannot abuse a customer simply because he was a tw*t.

I wouldn't rule out the possibility of the account being compromised.

No one can be that stupid, surely, as these things are all traceable, although I can't rule that out either as I have no knowledge of staff involved there.

This^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ and this \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/

Data protection is, and should be a prime concern. If, and I stress that this is only an 'if', staff have taken the contact details and then sent messages privately 'after hours' then that is unacceptable even if they are not abusive. If they are abusive then obviously that's even more serious.

 

[swt class 450]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-emails-passenger-complained-ticket-fine.html

Come on son. You had plenty of time to buy a ticket from the conductor on board. Why didn't you? Only a fool would sit there 'dumb, fat, and happy' knowing you might get fined for turning up at the other end without one. Mind you, people do, I witness it myself everyday. Peoples behaviour at times is astonishing.
Even if the booking office staff told you to buy a ticket on board, which they could well have done so you weren't late for work, you should have done so.(The clues are there BUY IT ONBOARD) They were trying to help you, so help yourself next time and stop acting like what you were accused of being. Some people are beyond help, they really are.

As for Carillion. This is what you get when you value staff so much you treat them to the minimum wage. There really is truth in the saying 'If you pay peanuts you get monkeys' Carillion are a joke like STM are. Arriva in getting into bed with Carillion have gone for the lowest common denominator, enjoy.

Doesnt sound good. From my experience Carillion are an utter useless agency who dont really care about customers.

 

[route:oxford]

This is the important part:-

He had written to the man about his complaint unaware he had been given the wrong email address of someone with the same name who works for Carillion, the company contracted by the train company to run its customer services.

So he's been sending repeated bizarre pester emails to one of the 40,000 people who work for Carillion (the individual having nothing to do with the Northern contract) and they've reacted to it.

 

[najaB]

This is the important part:-



So he's been sending repeated bizarre pester emails to one of the 40,000 people who work for Carillion (the individual having nothing to do with the Northern contract) and they've reacted to it.

Doesn't matter - the right response is none at all or reply saying 'Sorry, wrong person'.

 

[HH]

Doesn't matter - the right response is none at all or reply saying 'Sorry, wrong person'.

Maybe it is, but it's certainly nothing to do with Northern Rail and a number of posters owe them an apology.

 

[DaleCooper]

I can't help thinking that there's more to this than meets the eye.

 

[urbophile]

If Northern are really charging a penalty fare of £80 for a £3.10 journey they deserve more than criticism. If there was intent on his part of criminal evasion, maybe that would be justified, but as he said 'he tried to pay on arrival' that suggests not. Of course he could be lying, but surely the train company should have to prove criminal intent to get away with such a fine?

 

[lejog]

This is the important part:-



So he's been sending repeated bizarre pester emails to one of the 40,000 people who work for Carillion (the individual having nothing to do with the Northern contract) and they've reacted to it.

True, the important part of the Daily Mail story (that the customer was sent the wrong email address) is unfortunately not included in the quote in the initial post and subsequently there has been a load of rubbish posted by those who don't bother reading the article before speculating.

But where does it says the customer sent repeated bizarre emails? Receiving 50 I can see, but not the number sent.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Maybe it is, but it's certainly nothing to do with Northern Rail and a number of posters owe them an apology.

Northern have chosen to appoint Carillion as their subcontractors, the decision was theirs alone.

In law the relationship remains between the customer and Northern, so its all to do with them. They are responsible for the conduct of their subcontractors.

 

[NSEFAN]

If Northern are really charging a penalty fare of £80 for a £3.10 journey they deserve more than criticism. If there was intent on his part of criminal evasion, maybe that would be justified, but as he said 'he tried to pay on arrival' that suggests not. Of course he could be lying, but surely the train company should have to prove criminal intent to get away with such a fine?

Northern don't operate an official penalty fare system. They send out invoices of £80 to those who are caught without tickets (when they aught to have them). All rather dodgy and well documented on this forum.

 

[AlterEgo]

Northern have chosen to appoint Carillion as their subcontractors, the decision was theirs alone.

In law the relationship remains between the customer and Northern, so its all to do with them. They are responsible for the conduct of their subcontractors.

Is this only true if the contractor is acting in the course of their duties or contract?

Seems like this is a totally unrelated employee with nothing to do with handling Northern's complaints.

 

[najaB]

Of course he could be lying, but surely the train company should have to prove criminal intent to get away with such a fine?

It's neither a fine, nor a penalty fare. It's a scheme that Northern operate where, in lieu of prosecution, they allow the passenger to pay a fixed penalty of £80 plus the fare due to dispose of the matter.

It's a good idea, but badly implemented.

 

[northwichcat]

It's neither a fine, nor a penalty fare. It's a scheme that Northern operate where, in lieu of prosecution, they allow the passenger to pay a fixed penalty of £80 plus the fare due to dispose of the matter.

It's a good idea, but badly implemented.

Or in other words an out-of-court settlement for fare evasion so paying it implies you have accepted you did something illegal and in taking your payment Northern agree not to prosecute you for breaking the law.

 

[Chrism20]

Is this only true if the contractor is acting in the course of their duties or contract?

Seems like this is a totally unrelated employee with nothing to do with handling Northern's complaints.

If it's been sent from a Carillion account it's an official response from Carillion regardless of whether or not the person is attached to the Northern account or not.

If the email is not meant for them all they have to do is reply saying, sorry I think you may have the wrong person, I don't work on the Northern account. If you phone our Central Office they should be able to assist.

Even if the email was abusive (and I'm not implying whether it was or not) they report it, ignore it or reply back with the above.

 

[tellytype]

Has it actually got to the point now where every passenger has to record the whole journey on go-pro so if there is a problem with guards not coming round to collect tickets resulting in the above situation, the pax can simply say to anyone challenging the ticket at the far end "OK, go ahead, see you in court, I've got the footage"?

.

It's the case with everything in life these days I find. As a result all my calls are recorded & I record either Audio or video or both any encounter that matters.

Sadly the UK has now reached the stage where I trust nobody & I'm often proved right