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Trivia:Major design faults

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Doctor Fegg

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(Both from memory, may be urban myth or have misremembered:)

Virgin misreading the disabled access regulations and thinking they had to provide one disabled toilet for each class of travel... at a time when they were planning to run their trains with a three-class system (First, Business, Standard).

Also, the ability to lock a Voyager toilet out of use by pressing 'Close' then sneaking out the door before the door had closed.
 
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thenorthern

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Voyagers seats seem to bend a lot as the metal is a bit weak.

The 9 coach Voyagers seemed to be badly designed at first with 4 first class coaches and 5 standard class coaches. Mind you though Virgin Trains idea to have 3 long trains per hour between Manchester and Euston to cart fresh air about is a bit of a bad idea.
 

Dhassell

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Class 317's, You never know when the doors are unlocked and if you just tap the button the doors fly straight back shut!
 

BelleIsle

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2nd gen DMUs such as Pacers and Sprinters. If you have two units coupled up and one is locked out of use then unlocking the doors on the unlocked unit turns on the doors unlocked lights on both units even though you cannot get into one.
 

Bletchleyite

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Voyagers seats seem to bend a lot as the metal is a bit weak.

The 9 coach Voyagers seemed to be badly designed at first with 4 first class coaches and 5 standard class coaches. Mind you though Virgin Trains idea to have 3 long trains per hour between Manchester and Euston to cart fresh air about is a bit of a bad idea.

Worse - they were 8 cars of half each.
 

Deepgreen

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LU - not having all the tube tunnels the same diameter (size of Vic line tunnels)

Historical - not a design flaw.

The 377/6s and 7s - introduced with first class very poorly-marked inside and out with the pathetic anti-macassars that were supposed to be present for first class workings and removed for Metro workings! The same ironing board seats were provided as for standard. After much pressure, Southern finally added external yellow stripes and legends a couple of years ago.

The 700s - having to have their seat-back tables added as an after-thought, when the facility has become pretty much a standard requirement for years before they were designed.

Platform canopies that expose the four or so feet nearest the track to rain, etc, because they are both too high and too narrow to offer proper protection - London Bridge, Reading, etc.
 
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Deepgreen

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Any 4 or more coach unit which has the first class area at the end(s) - i.e. 319s (one end) 377s (one end on TL), 387s (one end on TL), 700s etc.

456s, which have retained their small ex-toilet windows on refurbishment for SWT, meaning a blank wall at that position in the unit, as well as their very cramped seating layout and their useless (literally) external destination displays (they've never worked on SWT and seem destined never to).
 

The Planner

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. Mind you though Virgin Trains idea to have 3 long trains per hour between Manchester and Euston to cart fresh air about is a bit of a bad idea.

Surely a requirement of the franchise and nothing to do with Virgin? First would have done the same if they had won.
 

BelleIsle

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Any 4 or more coach unit which has the first class area at the end(s) - i.e. 319s (one end) 377s (one end on TL), 387s (one end on TL), 700s etc.

Is that not a requirement rather than a design flaw? I am sure that the GM at the Cross used to insist on first class at the ends so that there was always some at the London end of the train. i.e. so first class passengers get to the tube first on the way in and to their seat first on the way out. It was a while back but I seem to remember that pre-76 the suburban rakes used to be marshalled with a composite at each end.

These days the rationale I am always given is that it avoids any dodgers using the 'I was just walking between the two standard class sections' as a get out when caught in first. Far easier to nick them on the spot than having to use CCTV evidence at a later date.
 

AlterEgo

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Surely a requirement of the franchise and nothing to do with Virgin? First would have done the same if they had won.

The DfT basically wrote the VHF timetable, so no blame on Virgin for that one.
 

Wivenswold

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Basildon Station.Grand opening delayed because platforms were too high to allow slam doors to open.

1983 tube stock. Take a dated design, make it look even older by running it alongside prototype for next gen trains and make sure the doors are small enough to double dwell times. Though I loved the colour scheme inside.
 

Bletchleyite

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Any 4 or more coach unit which has the first class area at the end(s) - i.e. 319s (one end) 377s (one end on TL), 387s (one end on TL), 700s etc.

Why? Better to have it at one (consistent) end of any non-gangwayed unit, then there is no reason for Standard passengers to go through it.

The real design flaw is the Class 185, with it in the middle section of the end coach, leaving a small area of Standard and the disabled bog marooned the wrong side of it. I don't know who thought of that, but whoever it was they want the sack.
 

Cowley

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The clips on the battery doors as originally fitted to Westerns.
Half barrier level crossings.

Obviously not real railways but the fact that our model railways are 00 gauge rather than H0 like everywhere else meaning that the track is too narrow for the scale. :)

Early steam locos that allowed the safety valve to be held down by the driver to gain a bit more pressure
The livery of D0260 Lion
 

trainophile

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The toilets at Liverpool South Parkway. There are 3. Not 3 blocks. Just 3 toilets. And after one is used it takes several minutes to self clean. This at a big transport interchange served by 507's, 508's, buses and Desiros none of which have toilets. (The Desiros do but they are locked out of use even more often than the super loos at South Parkway).

Seconded. It's an hour from Southport, so to turn up and find all the toilets out of use, and half an hour to wait for your connection, is a bit grim. A couple of years ago all three were out of use, and the explanation was "it hasn't rained so there's no water in the tanks to service them" :roll: .

Re. Pacers - on one today and a gent remarked to his (presumably) wife "These trains are unbelievable, five seats across. You might expect it in Bangladesh, but not in England".

Two coach Pacers are the pits, and it's not as if we have any choice on some routes.
 

Cowley

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I assume because the design feature that lets trapped vehicles escape also allows impatient drivers to scoot around the barriers. Bit of a double-edged sword.

I suppose that's what I was thinking really. Like you say though a bit double edged.
 

SpacePhoenix

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43074

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The entire specification for the seating area on the 700s, everything the seats themselves and having nowhere to put a cup of tea to the cantilevered supports which intrude into the foot space of anyone sitting at an airline seat.
 

83G/84D

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Not realy a design fault. No leg room problems when converted, these came later, . When complaints were made about the need for more seats. Instead of longer trains, more seats were crammed in a unit.

Try being a rather large driver trying to get in the cab at the converted end! Borderline unsafe in my opinion, I was surprised ASLEF did not make an issue of it.
 

superkev

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Easy with hindsight but how about Manchester metrolink being high floor.
Has anyone mentioned the unreliable air con on the 158s and others including the mk4 before gner sorted them.
Cracking of the 158 yaw damper brackets expensive fix.
K
 

Clarence Yard

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The first Collett designed 5600 0-6-2T was steamed in 1924. At first movement part of the valve gear promptly bent out of shape as the draughtsmen has overlooked giving it some support. Collett is reported to have told everyone present "This did not happen!" and it was hushed up for years.

Some real doubt as to whether that incident actually happened. It is quoted in Gibson but disputed elsewhere.

On LHCS, the introduction of the Mk2d stock wasn't without incident. We lost a few out the door with those very short lived interior door handles. The auto announcements (a big tape machine!) didn't really work and soon went as well.

The start up on the MA sets used to knock hell out of the static ETH, the Deltics & first 20 47s so the coaches had to have a time delay relay fitted, one setting for each type so when the power went on it didn't trip out.

Mk3 stock. Where to start? Bog door locks that were over designed so that vibration would displace internal springs and the door would fail safe, shut and trap the punter inside. Kitchen cars. Microwave oven doors that would pit and then hole around the handle, no proper securing of cupboard equipment so the fat bucket would fall out on the Offord curves making a mess of the car. The beer dispenser with the oh so handy in line test cock!

Underneath the wsp on the big kitchen cars which spalled the wheels within weeks of entering service. Buckeye couplers that were a pig to secure on curved roads in depots, leading to buckeyes parting in service and sets running as effectively two trains. You used to detect it inside by looking at the buffing plates - a big jubilee clip round the gravity block was the initial emergency fix on that one! Not ensuring that the double glazed windows were put together right so that one day a window broke, passed another at speed, scored the glass there, train passed another and the windows broke, and so we went on. 120 windows in one day on the ECML. The lorries were busy that night getting the new windows to the depots.

Spanner 2 boilers on Deltics. Could not heat much beyond 9 coaches. Way inferior to a Spanner 1 or 3. The KV control modules on the cl.50. Normally lack of volts means lack of power but some bozo at EE thought it the other way round. Ever seen a cl.50 "lock on" to full power when just sitting there? Fearsome sight.

Even wagons. COV AB vans that would run away because someone couldn't design the brakes right. The private diesel shunter at Marshmoor was forever having to rescue the Kellogg's traffic vans from the bottom of the sidings and one poor shunter at the MOD Bicester rode on his brake stick through a set of roller shutter doors thanks to one running away. Big enquiry after that one.

Just a few. M&EE on BR was a great place to learn about mistakes!
 

Groningen

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Any train with a 5 seats setting.

Trains where you have to open the window to open the door.
 

najaB

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Trains where you have to open the window to open the door.
It's not a design fault, there is a very good reason why there are no handles on the inside. And again, it is another situation where the design was perfectly fine at the time, but times have changed.
 
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