Trivia:Major design faults

[thenorthern]

Although this one too many years to see "in hindsight" one thing that seems to be a built in issue to trains and infrastructure is use the use of Asbestos in construction.

Many stations have had issues with Asbestos which severely affects modification of them.

Also with the first generation DMUs and EMUs many needed modifications in the 80s and 90s which cost a lot of trains that were going to be withdrawn soon.

 

[takno]

Although this one too many years to see "in hindsight" one thing that seems to be a built in issue to trains and infrastructure is use the use of Asbestos in construction.

Many stations have had issues with Asbestos which severely affects modification of them.

Also with the first generation DMUs and EMUs many needed modifications in the 80s and 90s which cost a lot of trains that were going to be withdrawn soon.

Asbestos is one of those things where the legal environment changed, and not in a way that was predictable 10 years upfront. When I was a kid it was a common material, and state-of-the-art for the things it was used for. Really the danger from the safer types of asbestos is actually extremely minimal anyway, and even then mostly restricted to the manufacturing process. Once the bandwagon had started rolling though, the word asbestos turned into this bogeyman and a bunch of what were sensible build decisions were very quickly turned into costly problems.

 

[yorksrob]

Asbestos is one of those things where the legal environment changed, and not in a way that was predictable 10 years upfront. When I was a kid it was a common material, and state-of-the-art for the things it was used for. Really the danger from the safer types of asbestos is actually extremely minimal anyway, and even then mostly restricted to the manufacturing process. Once the bandwagon had started rolling though, the word asbestos turned into this bogeyman and a bunch of what were sensible build decisions were very quickly turned into costly problems.

I can think of a few occasions where an attractive wooden canopy valence has been replaced by asbestos cladding. Ashford Kent and Hither Green spring to mind.

 

[BestWestern]

Why do the passenger coaches squeek on the HST?

I know they are getting on a bit, but on what is an otherwise silent ride (compared to the 222's), it is a shame they make the noise they do.

I assume you probably mean the high pitched sqealing from air venting out of the suspension. It's self-levelling, the carriage adjusts the suspension to compensate for weight distribution and tilting on track camber etc. The sound effects are down to the valves used I presume, creating a screaming noise rather than simply hissing.

 

[Deepgreen]

Why? Better to have it at one (consistent) end of any non-gangwayed unit, then there is no reason for Standard passengers to go through it.

The real design flaw is the Class 185, with it in the middle section of the end coach, leaving a small area of Standard and the disabled bog marooned the wrong side of it. I don't know who thought of that, but whoever it was they want the sack.

It won't be consistent for long if the units are turned at any point. If there is only one first class section, having it centrally-located makes it far easier for boarding passengers to know where it will be. Southeastern have realised this with their 375 refurbishments, where the two driving car sections have been reduced to one central section. First class at one end (e.g. the 387s) means that it's too easy to be in completely the wrong place when boarding. The argument about being nearer the exit at termini is negated by the hordes who will pile to the front to alight!

The 700s at the moment are a disaster with their first class at one end of a twelve car unit (as, for some unexplained reason, the other section is (semi-) permanently declassified) meaning a very long trek for those who happen to board at the wrong end. First sections in, say, the fourth and eighth cars would have given a better spread.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Then turn them back! Attention to detail...


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[BelleIsle]

Pacer gearboxes as originally fitted, which tended to break after a few years.

I thought that was a requirements issue. The gearboxes were designed to work for bus scenarios. i.e. slow speed with lots of start/stop. They were never intended to work for rail scenarios with more sustained higher speed running. I am pretty sure that if SCG had been asked to produce a rail version of the gearbox it would have been a success. However, this would have defeated the object of the Pacer design whereby you reused as many bus parts as possible to save money. That was the real design flaw.

 

[QueensCurve]

Indeed. It's strange that this layout survived at Cambridge a century later than everywhere else though !

Single platform arrangement survives at Maryport.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

This problem also affects the current 142 so don't flush it too often.
K

Interesting... I thought they'd fixed the problem pretty quickly after it became apparent; hardly expected it to still occur.

They have inadvertently fixed it, as I can't remember the last time I saw a pacer toilet that hadn't been rendered unusable by the door no longer closing thanks to the cubicle structure warping slightly!

Single platform arrangement survives at Maryport.

And at Malton.

 

[CosherB]

Class 60 having a maximum speed of 60 mph.

Easy to state with hindsight .....

 

[talltim]

158 ERTMS screen. I only use it at level 0 so I don't get a fancy dark shirt!! On some trips when the sun is at the right angle, I have to sit with my body pressed up against the side window so I can see my speed. Or put my coat on but then I'm too hot!!!

That's interesting. Are you saying that if you wear a light coloured top it reflects off the screen so you can't see it properly?

 

[BurtonM]

How? They are huge.

Yes, they're good size wise, but there need to be more of them, and getting people to use them is another matter entirely, especially the top shelf. Isn't there only one rack per unit? That accounts for six cases at best, and 185s often have several times that on them. The one I was on today had a full rack and a further five cases in the cycle storage opposite, naturally I had my bike with me too :roll:

If a train ever got luggage racks right it's the 150 with the massive open compartment at one end, or the Voyager. The massive ones are super useful if there isn't a fare dodger hiding in them(!).

 

[Tetchytyke]

the Voyager. The massive ones are super useful if there isn't a fare dodger hiding in them(!).

I preferred the buffet counter to a luggage rack which I can't see from my seat, and which is right by the door. A thief's wet dream.

They did make an issue of it. ASLEF had to be taken to Barclays to see the first one being converted to be convinced after being told that it was 153s or nothing for many deep rural services. Even so some depots refused to drive from the new cab initially; 153s had to be turned at Shrewsbury for Central Wales services for Swansea drivers.

And we don't have 153s in the North East because Heaton drivers refused to drive them.

 

[urbophile]

Eurostar Arrivals at St Pancras. Just a couple of doors opening out into the main shopping area and route from EMT/Thameslink to the Tube. Really poor people flow (particularly as a newly designed station). Ditto the pick-up/set-down arrangements outside.

St Pancras in general. Not of course the fabulous Barlow train shed, but the fact that Eurostar passengers hardly get to see it, being herded underground on the outward journey and shuffled off there on the return. And the crappy stuck-on extension for the East Midlands trains.

 

[Timrud]

I assume you probably mean the high pitched sqealing from air venting out of the suspension. It's self-levelling, the carriage adjusts the suspension to compensate for weight distribution and tilting on track camber etc. The sound effects are down to the valves used I presume, creating a screaming noise rather than simply hissing.

To me it sounds like the carrages squeeking when they are pivoting, like two items of tighly fitted plastic?

 

[PHILIPE]

They did make an issue of it. ASLEF had to be taken to Barclays to see the first one being converted to be convinced after being told that it was 153s or nothing for many deep rural services. Even so some depots refused to drive from the new cab initially; 153s had to be turned at Shrewsbury for Central Wales services for Swansea drivers.

Sorry, not Swansea drivers. They changed over en route with Shrewsbury drivers.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes, they're good size wise, but there need to be more of them, and getting people to use them is another matter entirely, especially the top shelf. Isn't there only one rack per unit? That accounts for six cases at best, and 185s often have several times that on them. The one I was on today had a full rack and a further five cases in the cycle storage opposite, naturally I had my bike with me too :roll:

If a train ever got luggage racks right it's the 150 with the massive open compartment at one end, or the Voyager. The massive ones are super useful if there isn't a fare dodger hiding in them(!).

Put them in the overhead - it is huge and will accept all but significantly oversize bags.


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[trainophile]

Which reminds me... if I had £1 for every time I've watched someone on an ATW Class 178/158 (sorry not good on class types ) trying to force a fairly small case onto the overhead racks, and finding it just won't fit, I could probably buy a train myself!

Another stupid situation - Scotrail issuing seat reservations, but no coach lettering on the outside of the trains, so you have no idea which end to board at.

 

[najaB]

Another stupid situation - Scotrail issuing seat reservations, but no coach lettering on the outside of the trains, so you have no idea which end to board at.

It's hit and miss - sometimes they have the stickers in the door windows, often they don't.

 

[Marklund]

Howells Mark 1 SL35 replacement LED light engines.
Great idea, appalling failure rate.

 

[cjmillsnun]

If memory serves correctly, CDL wasn't a feature of the original Mk3 design.

Correct. In fact CDL was added because of doors on the catch failing when someone leaned against them...

 

[Jonny]

I assume because the design feature that lets trapped vehicles escape also allows impatient drivers to scoot around the barriers. Bit of a double-edged sword.

... which is actually quite important since trains may (depending on the crossing) be given signalling clearance over the crossing before even the amber phase of the crossing lights.

 

[Jonny]

They have inadvertently fixed it, as I can't remember the last time I saw a pacer toilet that hadn't been rendered unusable by the door no longer closing thanks to the cubicle structure warping slightly!


And at Malton.

Does Hartlepool count?

 

[BurtonM]

Put them in the overhead - it is huge and will accept all but significantly oversize bags.


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Fair point, I'm not keen on moving people's things without asking though. I've had people manhandling my bike on trains before (and almost breaking parts), and I don't appreciate it.

 

[ChrisHogan]

Sorry, not Swansea drivers. They changed over en route with Shrewsbury drivers.

That is why we had to turn them at Shrewsbury because Swansea men wouldn't relieve our crew if the small cab was leading. I can't remember how long it lasted.

 

[PHILIPE]

That is why we had to turn them at Shrewsbury because Swansea men wouldn't relieve our crew if the small cab was leading. I can't remember how long it lasted.

Ah. That explains it now.

I recall that when I was a Train Planner the Driver's Manager from a particular Depot contacted me and asked if we could diagram a 150 on a particular diagram in place of a 153 because a driver in the link was rather portly and had difficulty accessing the small cab.

 

[matacaster]

Class 155 door interlocking. Took 1 year delay to sort it out before they were accepted by wypte.

 

[Phil.]

St Pancras in general. Not of course the fabulous Barlow train shed, but the fact that Eurostar passengers hardly get to see it, being herded underground on the outward journey and shuffled off there on the return. And the crappy stuck-on extension for the East Midlands trains.

Yep, I'll drink to that.

 

[fairliered]

The 5th, 6th and 7th coaches on Cross Country Voyagers - the fact that they don't exist.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

The cab doors of tubostars before they started building them to be powered, they've caused drivers problems with them being just open enough that they can't get the interlock but they look closed to the drivers