shredder1
Established Member
Interesting to see the opinions of others on this issue, times have certainly changed, thanks Mod.
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I'm sorry, did I read that correctly? Transcribing three letters and four digits (they're on the photocard) is a complex task that we can't expect a typical adult to complete successfully?So you are relying on the customer to perform a pretty complex task, using software with no authentication on the input.
Hmm.. let's think:Does make me wonder, how long have we asked for railcard numbers for, now?
That's right, always. The OP (of the original thread) was purchasing a seven-day season ticket and guessed at their photocard number.I know season tickets numbers have been asked for since the dawn of time.
Do you know of any ticket type that requires the purchaser's shoe size?Would not surprise me if in years to come a prosecution for inputting a fraudulent shoe size is posted on here. :P
Do you know of any ticket type that requires the purchaser's shoe size?
I completely agree with the OPs opinion in regard to treating someone as a criminal for mistyping a few numbers.
How this can be enforced is beyond me, when there is no authentication on the numbers. The customer can type any number. So you are relying on the customer to perform a pretty complex task, using software with no authentication on the input. Then treating the customer as a criminal for typing in the wrong number.
Madness. But I expect it from the UK railways sadly.
There are circumstances where someone may wish to purchase a season ticket without the photocard - it's rare, I admit, but not unknown. For example, I'm off work on the Friday but want to buy it in advance to save time on Monday morning. I pop down to my local station and forget to bring my photocard, but I know the number. The system would need to still allow this.It would be better if the TVMs had a barcode reader - they could scan the photocard, killing two birds with one stone: getting the number right, ensuring that the purchaser has the photocard (without which, the season ticket is invalid).
Moderator's note: split from What am I being Prosecuted for?
What a way to treat a genuine customer, the guy makes a mistake and is potentially turned into a criminal, the sooner the laws change on issues like this the better.
As the title of this thread is "The sooner the laws change on railway ticketing issues the better." I wonder if anyone can suggest how a new law might be framed in a way that they consider fair to honest travellers without providing loopholes for the dishonest ones.
That's policy, not law. The law is completely silent on what form authority to travel takes.Here's one.
Removal of the ability for an authorised employee to give verbal authorisation to travel other than in accordance with the ticket held.
There are something like 1.5 billion journeys made by rail each year in the UK. How many do you think result in prosecutions?On reflection maybe we should just throw everone in prison who buys a ticket, cut the middleman out,
There are something like 1.5 billion journeys made by rail each year in the UK. How many do you think result in prosecutions?
That's policy, not law. The law is completely silent on what form authority to travel takes.
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There are something like 1.5 billion journeys made by rail each year in the UK. How many do you think result in prosecutions?
I know it wasn't a serious suggestion but the point I'm making is that prosecutions and attempted prosecutions are rare compared to the vast number of journeys made. Sometimes things go wrong, and sometimes people in TOCs abuse their powers. But any laws/rules that have teeth come with the potential to be abused.Doh, its a joke mate, but seriously I can`t help but feel the balance is wrong
Doh, its a joke mate, but seriously I can`t help but feel the balance is wrong
Without knowing the numbers how can you judge the balance to be wrong? You shouldn't form a view based on this forum where naturally we only hear about it when things go badly for rail users.
A change to the law that I would support:
By all means bring passengers up in court or fine them (in effect by removing the ticket, or via penalty fakes, or out of court settlements) for a breach of regulations like the OP's mistyped photocard number.
However the same should apply to railway staff like the case of Via Bank, or the cases of rail staff refusing to let you pass through barriers despite holding a valid ticket, or delaying your travel and interviewing you and issuing you with an errant fare notice despite having a valid ticket.
I know it wasn't a serious suggestion but the point I'm making is that prosecutions and attempted prosecutions are rare compared to the vast number of journeys made. Sometimes things go wrong, and sometimes people in TOCs abuse their powers. But any laws/rules that have teeth come with the potential to be abused.
To repeat a question that's been asked in this thread but not yet answered: what is the 'right' balance that be fairer on those who make genuine mistakes and still allow TOCs to be robust in their revenue protection activities?
I wholeheartedly believe there should be some recompense when matters proceed past the initial letters stage and are then dropped. I'm curious, though, how you propose that inspectors determine the validity of a passenger's ticket without questioning them?However the same should apply to railway staff like the case of Via Bank, or the cases of rail staff refusing to let you pass through barriers despite holding a valid ticket, or delaying your travel and interviewing you and issuing you with an errant fare notice despite having a valid ticket.
I wholeheartedly believe there should be some recompense when matters proceed past the initial letters stage and are then dropped, I'm curious how you propose that inspectors determine the validity of a passenger's ticket without questioning them?
its just an opinion mate based on how many things I hear go wrong these days.
How many millions of journeys pass off without a hitch? If you base your opinion only on the bad things you hear without considering the vast majority which are satisfactory then you're likely to come to the wrong conclusion.
Hmm.. let's think:
That's right, always. The OP (of the original thread) was purchasing a seven-day season ticket and guessed at their photocard number.
Do you know of any ticket type that requires the purchaser's shoe size?
I`m sure your right, lol
How many millions of journeys pass off without a hitch? If you base your opinion only on the bad things you hear without considering the vast majority which are satisfactory then you're likely to come to the wrong conclusion.
I'm curious, though, how you propose that inspectors determine the validity of a passenger's ticket without questioning them?
To repeat a question that's been asked in this thread but not yet answered: what is the 'right' balance that be fairer on those who make genuine mistakes and still allow TOCs to be robust in their revenue protection activities?
My right what? Incidentally, please don't call me Lol.
A simple check digit on the end of the number would eliminate 90% of erroneous input. Royal Mail signed for numbers use one as do credit card numbers, so it's easily done.
The system with no check digit(s) was presumably implemented before TVMs were around so there was no need to worry about mistyped numbers. Now the world has changed and the industry should adapt to the new use cases for the number.