Great Western Electrification Progress

[AM9]

But it does. My most recent journey from Dusseldorf to Cologne was delayed (as were many others) due to problems with the overhead lines. They seem to have all the problems we do such as broken escalators at stations, toilets on trains out of use, sardine conditions at busy times.

I said:

"... How many times have posters when hearing of OLE problems said that it would never happen on the European mainland, ..."
I didn't give any credence to such irrational statements.

I've seen the occasional problems on continental European rail myself but they do seem take the quality of OLE hardware a bit more seriously in my experience.

 

[Chris125]

Some useful videos from Michael Fleet showing how electrification and Crossrail works have progressed between Paddington and Reading, taken on the 8th:

[youtube]KbKqQvGP6xw[/youtube]

[youtube]dsJo_3Wq0Ns[/youtube]

 

[SWT_USER]

Held on the relief line this mornining to allow a freight train to cross in front of us. Are there issues with the diveunder? Or a dozy signaller?

 

[Ploughman]

Was there anything further along the line that would have held you anyway?

So letting the freight through would have had no affect on you in that case.

 

[SWT_USER]

Was there anything further along the line that would have held you anyway?

So letting the freight through would have had no affect on you in that case.

Not to my knowledge. We stopped, driver explained we needed to wait for the freight to cross and then we got going again.

It was the 07.27 Heathrow to Paddington connect service

 

[MarlowDonkey]

It was the 07.27 Heathrow to Paddington connect service

Did I read somewhere on here that the Connect units are banned from using the dive under?

 

[SWT_USER]

Did I read somewhere on here that the Connect units are banned from using the dive under?

I think HEX 332 units are banned. Have certainly used it on the connect in the past couple of weeks.

 

[JN114]

The diveunder prevents conflicts of freights coming out of Acton at the West End, but not conflicts with freights coming straight down Acton Bank and onto the Down Relief at Acton East.

 

[76020]

This is from the Steventon Oxfordshire Village Website:-

Village News - Railway

Railway electrificaton -

BRIDGE UPDATE - January 2017

Steventon Parish Council (PC), Oxfordshire County Council (OCC) and Ed Vaizey’s assistant met with Network Rail (NR) on Monday 9th January to discuss the current position with regard to electrification of the railway in Steventon.

Ed Vaizey has had meetings with NR, the utility companies and Historic England. He reports:
•The bridge will be demolished and reconstructed;
•The road will be closed for at least 10 months;
•The utilities are happy to work together;
•Historic England are aware of the intended bridge demolition.

NR confirmed that Stocks Lane crossing will not be closed and that they are now only pursuing bridge demolition and reconstruction. Their baseline case is that the road will be closed for at least 10 months. However, it is hoped that cycle and pedestrian bridge access will be provided.

NR are to apply by the end of January 2017 to Historic England, and the Vale of White Horse District Council for approval to demolish the Grade II listed bridge. In their submission they will have to present a robust case including:
•Documentation that all credible options have been explored and evaluated by due process;
•The bridge has only a finite life.
•

A bridge survey by OCC in January 2016 showed that: “The bridge is in fair condition with some repairs necessary”. OCC reported that the bridge can be maintained on an annual basis.

The PC challenged the 10 month road closure and pressed for 4-6 month closure period. NR said they would try to reduce the closure time. However, the full detail of what is actually going to happen is still to be determined. It is likely that the decision will be known in May 2017. This will then define what happens next.

 

[QueensCurve]

The Tommys ran over Woodhead double headed with two pants per loco IIRC

A fine sight they were too.

 

[HowardGWR]

Re: Woodhead line photo

Beauty is clearly in the eye of the beholder.

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Re: Steventon

One hopes the new bridge allows for 4 lines. We don't want another Welwyn. This may be why NR will go for demolition rather than modification. I am sure that the style and materials could be sympathetic to its history and aesthetically pleasing, as has been achieved elsewhere.

 

[Nippy]

Held on the relief line this mornining to allow a freight train to cross in front of us. Are there issues with the diveunder? Or a dozy signaller?

Or a signalman 45 minutes into his first shift since the Christmas remodelling getting to grips with the new Signalling interface, screen layouts and the mountain of paperwork he needs to look at?

 

[QueensCurve]

Re: Woodhead line photo

Beauty is clearly in the eye of the beholder.

Granted the loco and OHLE styling could have have been better. :cry:

 

[Peter Sarf]

Re photo of 76s.

Brings back memories of round Guide Bridge. Wonder how long that OHLE could have lasted. Of course I assume some of it is still in use carrying 25kV AC. That's at the West end out of Manchester to Hadfield/Glossop ?.

 

[edwin_m]

Or a signalman 45 minutes into his first shift since the Christmas remodelling getting to grips with the new Signalling interface, screen layouts and the mountain of paperwork he needs to look at?

Not sure about the paperwork, but electronic signalling centres normally have simulators for the signallers to get familiar with the layout.

 

[450.emu]

Re photo of 76s.

Brings back memories of round Guide Bridge. Wonder how long that OHLE could have lasted. Of course I assume some of it is still in use carrying 25kV AC. That's at the West end out of Manchester to Hadfield/Glossop ?.

It's still in use on the line to Hadfield, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Recent YouTube videos show 323 EMUs still using the line. Where I am in North London the majority of the Overground line to Enfield still has the original 1950s knitting

 

[Who Cares]

This is from the Steventon Oxfordshire Village Website:-

Village News - Railway

Railway electrificaton -

BRIDGE UPDATE - January 2017

Steventon Parish Council (PC), Oxfordshire County Council (OCC) and Ed Vaizey’s assistant met with Network Rail (NR) on Monday 9th January to discuss the current position with regard to electrification of the railway in Steventon.

Ed Vaizey has had meetings with NR, the utility companies and Historic England. He reports:
•The bridge will be demolished and reconstructed;
•The road will be closed for at least 10 months;
•The utilities are happy to work together;
•Historic England are aware of the intended bridge demolition.

NR confirmed that Stocks Lane crossing will not be closed and that they are now only pursuing bridge demolition and reconstruction. Their baseline case is that the road will be closed for at least 10 months. However, it is hoped that cycle and pedestrian bridge access will be provided.

NR are to apply by the end of January 2017 to Historic England, and the Vale of White Horse District Council for approval to demolish the Grade II listed bridge. In their submission they will have to present a robust case including:
•Documentation that all credible options have been explored and evaluated by due process;
•The bridge has only a finite life.
•

A bridge survey by OCC in January 2016 showed that: “The bridge is in fair condition with some repairs necessary”. OCC reported that the bridge can be maintained on an annual basis.

The PC challenged the 10 month road closure and pressed for 4-6 month closure period. NR said they would try to reduce the closure time. However, the full detail of what is actually going to happen is still to be determined. It is likely that the decision will be known in May 2017. This will then define what happens next.

This is really just too crazy to be true - three or is it four years into this Project and only now do they start thinking about the importance of, just perhaps, having to knock down a listed bridge.

As the Daily HateMail would say...You couldn't make it up.....

 

[Nippy]

Not sure about the paperwork, but electronic signalling centres normally have simulators for the signallers to get familiar with the layout.

Yes you will see from my signature where I work so I'm fully aware of what we have. Doesn't take away the fact that the Signaller today hadn't worked the live workstation before so was getting to grips with it.

The simulators are quite often not exactly as per the workstation and often don't have a full timetable loaded into them.

 

[Taunton]

This is really just too crazy to be true - three or is it four years into this Project and only now do they start thinking about the importance of, just perhaps, having to knock down a listed bridge.

Not only that, it comes over that the scheme in the area is only being designed now. Why ever was that not done at the start - how could the cost estimates have been done without adequate design.

Looking at the bridge I can't see whatever gives it Listed Status.

10 months is a ludicrous time to cut off a road for this, and clearly such a programme has been devised for maximum engineering convenience and no thought to interruption to the local community. Construction of a new deck alongside, then swinging it in over a weekend, is standard stuff. Given the potential expansion to 4 tracks there is plenty of scope, once the current bridge is demolished (a second weekend job), to scaffold off the abutments as they are well back from the tracks, and work on them 24x7 to get them built. Only coming up with the design now means they can't really synchronise any closures in with others that may be planned for the line.

I recall a comparably-sized bridge in the USA getting replaced, from scratch, in a few weeks following earthquake damage, along these lines.

 

[fgwrich]

Little bit of an update for those who want it. Returned from London in the dark so I couldn't see as much as I'd have liked to, however it looks like most of the steelwork is nearly up from Maidenhead to Reading - Bar Twyford station and one or two on the outside of Reading. Most now have the small steel droppers in place, although oddly some are in place in Sonning Cutting, while there's nothing attached to the 1st placed stuff at Kennet Valley? There is also the first wire running on the outside of each stanchion for large parts of the route too with some wires running west of Maidenhead to near Twyford.

I've got to say though, the Up/Down Fasts have been closed all day between just west of Slough and Reading - No sign of NR's 'Orange Army' working between Maidenhead and Reading!

 

[Mag_seven]

I've got to say though, the Up/Down Fasts have been closed all day between just west of Slough and Reading

Up/Down Mains please!

 

[Trog]

Up/Down Mains please!

Except when describing events etc before about 1899 when they were the Fasts and Slows. (Don't remember the exact date of the change to mains and reliefs off the top of my head.)

 

[Taunton]

Except when describing events etc before about 1899 when they were the Fasts and Slows. (Don't remember the exact date of the change to mains and reliefs off the top of my head.)

However wasn't the 4-tracking itself actually carried out during the 1890s? It was just double track before then.

 

[coppercapped]

Not only that, it comes over that the scheme in the area is only being designed now. Why ever was that not done at the start - how could the cost estimates have been done without adequate design.

This might give you a clue. From page 21 of the National Audit Office's report dated 9 November 2016 on the GW Modernisation:

When the Department entered into a contract to buy the Intercity Express trains in July 2012, creating fixed deadlines for electrification, Network Rail had only just identified that it would need to develop a new type of electrification equipment (Figure 6 on pages 22 and 23). It is unlikely that either Network Rail or the Department had a good enough understanding of the work involved in developing and installing this new design, to be confident in the time it would take when the Department let the contract for the new trains. Under the Department’s contract with Agility Trains the Department would pay a penalty to Agility if these deadlines were missed. Between 2009 and 2012, there was a dialogue between the Department and Network Rail around the electrification specification, delivery arrangements and the timescales needed to meet these deadlines. In April 2012 Network Rail started design work on a new type of electrification, which was needed to meet European Union regulations, and because of performance concerns about equipment used on other routes.

So possibly one could have heard the sound of goalposts being moved between 2009 and 2012?

Looking at the bridge I can't see whatever gives it Listed Status.

10 months is a ludicrous time to cut off a road for this, and clearly such a programme has been devised for maximum engineering convenience and no thought to interruption to the local community. Construction of a new deck alongside, then swinging it in over a weekend, is standard stuff. Given the potential expansion to 4 tracks there is plenty of scope, once the current bridge is demolished (a second weekend job), to scaffold off the abutments as they are well back from the tracks, and work on them 24x7 to get them built. Only coming up with the design now means they can't really synchronise any closures in with others that may be planned for the line.

I recall a comparably-sized bridge in the USA getting replaced, from scratch, in a few weeks following earthquake damage, along these lines.

You might be right, but equally there may be considerations - accessibility, ground conditions, need to re-route utilities, etc. - of which you are not aware.

 

[Trog]

However wasn't the 4-tracking itself actually carried out during the 1890s? It was just double track before then.

Yes it was just for a few years, between quadrification, and when someone had the mains and reliefs bright idea.

 

[Who Cares]

COPPER....

Any chance that you can provide a link to these EU regulations, please ?

The most appropriate link that I can find is this one -

http://orr.gov.uk/about-orr/what-we-do/the-law/eu-law including additional links

And which suggests that NR should have been aware of any changes brought about by EU legislation regarding rail infrastructure and inter-operability, to which you refer, from about 2004 onwards.

Genuine question is why was there a need for NR to have to start from scratch as late as 2012 ?

Had they 'taken their eyes off the ball ' or did they only start trying to understand what was required in 2012, quite a few years after providing the Government with the original cost estimates ? You'll appreciate that even the spendthrift Labour Government of the day, anxious to spend its way out of recession, would have been unlikely to approve the project had the cost estimates presented at the time been £3+ billion.

 

[Domh245]

COPPER....

Any chance that you can provide a link to these EU regulations, please ?

The most appropriate link that I can find is this one -

http://orr.gov.uk/about-orr/what-we-do/the-law/eu-law including additional links

And which suggests that NR should have been aware of any changes brought about by EU legislation regarding rail infrastructure and inter-operability, to which you refer, from about 2004 onwards.

I would guess that the relevant document is the energy subsystem TSI - that particular copy being from December 2014 which superseded versions from 2008 and 2011 as noted on this page - the 2011 version (published 14/05/2011) being the "new" one referred to above.

Genuine question is why was there a need for NR to have to start from scratch as late as 2012 ?

Had they 'taken their eyes off the ball ' or did they only start trying to understand what was required in 2012, quite a few years after providing the Government with the original cost estimates ? You'll appreciate that even the spendthrift Labour Government of the day, anxious to spend its way out of recession, would have been unlikely to approve the project had the cost estimates presented at the time been £3+ billion.

As per the quote in Coppercapped's post

Between 2009 and 2012, there was a dialogue between the Department and Network Rail around the electrification specification, delivery arrangements and the timescales needed to meet these deadlines

Which sounds to me like the DfT weren't sure what they wanted until 2012.

 

[snowball]

The regulations, changes in the regulations, and their effect on the timescale and cost of electrification schemes have been discussed in several electrification-related threads. The most central thread for the subject is this one:

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=137166

 

[Who Cares]

Thanks everyone....Genuinely appreciated.

 

[HowardGWR]

Thanks everyone....Genuinely appreciated.

Why would it be 'disingenuously' appreciated? It got me thinking. Are you the person who is campaigning against the OHLE near Goring? Are you hoping for a nugget about mismanagement on OHLE by NR?