Alteran Ancient
Member
I would expect that GatX and Southern are a package deal, even after any possible split-up. They were merged prior to the TSGN franchise taking over.
If they are split up, how will that affect the rolling stock and train running? Some Thameslink services run for Southern and Southern for Thameslink.
Would separate companies allow such a thing to continue. If not would more services get cancelled as a result due to lack of rolling stock?
Also if Southern was split off, what would happen to Gatwick Express? Would they go as well? It might be argued they are as much Southern as Thameslink are, given they are both part of one company that has four brands.
Are there any services on the edge of GTR territory that could go over to another TOC? The only possibility I can think of is the Brighton to Portsmouth and Brighton to Southampton Central services, though I don't know what chunk of them is in SWTs territory and what chunk is in Southern territory
Are there any services on the edge of GTR territory that could go over to another TOC? The only possibility I can think of is the Brighton to Portsmouth and Brighton to Southampton Central services, though I don't know what chunk of them is in SWTs territory and what chunk is in Southern territory
However with departments merging, not sure there is the staff to spilt and have numbers back at the old level.
Bidders had to submit plans for this as it was always envisaged at the end of the franchise. Splitting now would only bring this forward.
that maybe for the future, but this split of the GTR franchise would be simple. The thameslink transfers (staff and routes) would take priority.....as would the new 2018 timetable changes which are widespread.
Im not sure they would into your suggestion until the next franchise.
Try Reading my post where I say I don't know. Railway press have stated they know but no names given out.
Even in BR days Portsmouth-Brighton used central division (Brighton based) EMUs on most servicesAre there any services on the edge of GTR territory that could go over to another TOC? The only possibility I can think of is the Brighton to Portsmouth
Remove Gatwick express from it, it needs transferring to BAA to get it back to being a premier service again. I think BAA could make Gatwick express a very good service again..not the joke it is now
Get the South Central Division back to what it used to do best, run 8-12 car trains to brighton and coast way towns. provide a guard on all 12 cars, get it working with other TOCS to provide a service that the Passengers, staff and ORR can be proud of.
The South central (southern) could be a superb TOC, with right management who listen and work with the people it employs and carries it can be again
Why would BAA, a defunct company (they now brand the airports they owned separately), run a train service to their biggest competitor airport at Gatwick, which is owned by GIP?
all im saying is get the GATEX back as a seperate entity, make it an "intercity" service.
i know intercity gatwick express is dead as a brand, but lets face it worked, it was the premier service on the south central, it would have worked properly with 442 if it had been done properly
south Central and Intercity used to run in total harmony in BR DAYS..two seperate seperate operation and profit sectors, and it worked absolutely fine..
possibly splitting not 100%. However splitting now and causing departments that help run the service to be underhanded now would be difficult to replace what had been there before.
Youd risk spending the next year getting things back to where they are now. The difference in 2021 would be a far more stable railway to train people on.
all im saying is get the GATEX back as a seperate entity, make it an "intercity" service.
i know intercity gatwick express is dead as a brand, but lets face it worked, it was the premier service on the south central, it would have worked properly with 442 if it had been done properly
south Central and Intercity used to run in total harmony in BR DAYS..two seperate seperate operation and profit sectors, and it worked absolutely fine..
disagree..... they run 90% empty at times. Just improve the customer travelling experience. 387s are fine for them, but need better seating, better first class and staff. The journe is not long enough to justify a trolley service.
the GATEX used to be a non stop job between london vic and Gatwick carrying passengers who paid EXTRA to use it..that was the whole point, you got leg space, a trolley service, stewards a Guard who walked through and place that your luggage was secure in.
On occasion it Might go down to brighton and had a diversion route.
the main gag it was NON STOP, it was a tad quicker than the "plebs" trains a seperate operation from the rest of the division, it was something special and it was a nice little cash cow when operated by British rail
I think the fares disparity and other marketing factors (such as the lack of clarity about Southern trains going to Gatwick, especially the inevitable confusion among unfamiliar travellers about trains that split en route) makes the passenger loadings skewed.
Most people will obviously generally try to obtain the cheapest fare and Southern trains will therefore bear an unnaturally high proportion of Gatwick passengers which would otherwise be more evenly spread between green and red trains. The present arrangement essentially leads to a waste of paths in terms of optimum passenger loading per train.
They have been behaving in a very underhanded way for years!
Bloody spell check! Unmanned.
I understand that GIPs business strategy is to move towards the premium market. Passenger figures have been increasing at such a rate that if there was justification for a non stop service in BR days there almost certainly is today. There has been a huge increase in inwards tourism almost all of which is destined for central London for which Victoria is better placed than any of the Thameslink Stations.GIP's analysis of current Gatwick users is that there is far smaller market for premium than there once was as a number of Transatlantic flights have transferred to Heathrow and there has been a huge increase at the bottom end with low cost flights. Many passengers also want to Change at East Croydon / Clapham Jn on Vic Services (myself included*) or want London Bridge for the City instead or in the future far more for Thameslink with Crossrail interchange at Farringdon and 10minute quicker journy time than currently to place North of St Pancras.
More southern trains also stop at Gatwick than 2 or 3 decades ago so there is more choice and lots of passengers aren't chosing GatEx for destination or price reasons.
* £4.50 oyster fare ECR to GTW was a nice improvement!