Great Western Electrification Progress

[Wilts Wanderer]

And the example was that in the morning there are no connections towards Greenford. My point being; there aren't meant to be. Not until the afternoon!

 

[HowardGWR]

I suspect may of us who are remote, just hope to learn when progress is signalled (pun excuses) from Maidenhead to Reading (incl). This is an important milestone IMO.
If frequent travellers on this stretch can post images from their smartphones, etc, many of us would be very grateful.

 

[Gagravarr]

Just overhead a GWR manager onboard saying that around Didcot, they'll be electrifying up the Oxford line as far as Appleford, both on the avoiding lines and via Didcot station. Apparently this will allow them to turn trains round, and access all the sidings. They said there's no known date for extending from Appleford up to Oxford, which matches what others have reported

 

[D1009]

Just overhead a GWR manager onboard saying that around Didcot, they'll be electrifying up the Oxford line as far as Appleford, both on the avoiding lines and via Didcot station. Apparently this will allow them to turn trains round, and access all the sidings. They said there's no known date for extending from Appleford up to Oxford, which matches what others have reported

Does that mean they are electrifying the Yard? I doubt it.

 

[JN114]

That's plain daft. Isn't the Greenford branch now fully self-contained? If so the whole timetable could be pushed round the clock by a few minutes to give a decent connection.

There is a decent connection, just with the Heathrow Connect service not the original paths. The "cutting" of the Greenford service back to West Ealing has been on the cards since the Crossrail consultation 10+ years ago, so I'm not sure as to why it's all come as such a shock that the journey now takes longer when you have to change...

Yes, You could shuffle the whole thing around the clock until the cows come home, but by "gaining" a few extra minutes connecting out of the 2Sxx, you break the connection on the Up, and vice versa. Any gain in journey time one way will be offset by a loss going the other way. The journey time is always going to be longer and that is an unfortunate byproduct of Crossrail.

 

[HowardGWR]

There is a decent connection, just with the Heathrow Connect service not the original paths. The "cutting" of the Greenford service back to West Ealing has been on the cards since the Crossrail consultation 10+ years ago, so I'm not sure as to why it's all come as such a shock that the journey now takes longer when you have to change...

Yes, You could shuffle the whole thing around the clock until the cows come home, but by "gaining" a few extra minutes connecting out of the 2Sxx, you break the connection on the Up, and vice versa. Any gain in journey time one way will be offset by a loss going the other way. The journey time is always going to be longer and that is an unfortunate byproduct of Crossrail.

Yes, but I hope I am right that this only goes for journeys to and from Pad. Anyone going further (and the vast majority will be) will gain hugely, surely?

 

[3973EXL]

I suspect may of us who are remote, just hope to learn when progress is signalled (pun excuses) from Maidenhead to Reading (incl). This is an important milestone IMO.
If frequent travellers on this stretch can post images from their smartphones, etc, many of us would be very grateful.

Checked the state of play today with a walk from Lands End (London end) to the A4 bridge at the Reading end via public roads and bridges.

From what I could see -
Metal work appears complete on the up side, UR/DR, except one gantry between the Butts Hill road and Warren road bridges which has no registration arms. Masts look complete from Lands End towards Twyford but have no reg/arms fixed. From the A4 bridge West from what I could see looked complete towards the old power station site. There are no wires up yet.
Just West of the A4 bridge there are two piles driven part way in on the cutting side. Guessing they are no longer going to be used.

On the down side, DM/UM, there is one mast to be erected between Warren road and the A4, laying in the cess. There are also six gantries with no registration arms, two between Butts Hill and Warren road bridges, two more between Warren and the A4 bridge and two West of the A4. Again no wires yet. Metal work up towards Twyford except for registration arms. Towards Reading looked complete as far as I could see.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Checked the state of play today with a walk from Lands End (London end) to the A4 bridge at the Reading end via public roads and bridges. From what I could see -.

Welcome to the forum - I see this is your first post. Thank you very much indeed for this update. The more that contribute information like this the better. Great news. Please continue to give us updates of this nature,. Very encouraging.

 

[Class 170101]

Just overhead a GWR manager onboard saying that around Didcot, they'll be electrifying up the Oxford line as far as Appleford, both on the avoiding lines and via Didcot station. Apparently this will allow them to turn trains round, and access all the sidings. They said there's no known date for extending from Appleford up to Oxford, which matches what others have reported

Hopefully that means they can wire upto Oxford subsequently without stitching up Didcot whilst wiring and connecting to the existing wires.

 

[coppercapped]

Welcome to the forum - I see this is your first post. Thank you very much indeed for this update. The more that contribute information like this the better. Great news. Please continue to give us updates of this nature,. Very encouraging.

I take it that you missed the contents of post #4372?

 

[Taunton]

There is a decent connection, just with the Heathrow Connect service not the original paths. The "cutting" of the Greenford service back to West Ealing has been on the cards since the Crossrail consultation 10+ years ago, so I'm not sure as to why it's all come as such a shock that the journey now takes longer when you have to change...

Yes, You could shuffle the whole thing around the clock until the cows come home, but by "gaining" a few extra minutes connecting out of the 2Sxx, you break the connection on the Up, and vice versa. Any gain in journey time one way will be offset by a loss going the other way. The journey time is always going to be longer and that is an unfortunate byproduct of Crossrail.

If a definition of a "decent connection" is from the service 15 minutes beforehand, with your connection departing just as those from the following main service are starting up the footbridge, then there's a job waiting on Donald Trump's PR team for such a writer.

The whole thing stems from trying to run the shuttle with just one unit and minimalist turnrounds, all day. Presumably any delay, on a line still shared with freight, means the whole service is knocked off balance. I guess when the shuttle gets more than a few minutes late a whole round trip will be cancelled.

 

[edwin_m]

If a definition of a "decent connection" is from the service 15 minutes beforehand, with your connection departing just as those from the following main service are starting up the footbridge, then there's a job waiting on Donald Trump's PR team for such a writer.

The whole thing stems from trying to run the shuttle with just one unit and minimalist turnrounds, all day. Presumably any delay, on a line still shared with freight, means the whole service is knocked off balance. I guess when the shuttle gets more than a few minutes late a whole round trip will be cancelled.

Maybe shuttle passengers will just connect at Greenford to/from the Central Line instead, which is more frequent and offers a wide choice of London stations.

 

[IrishDave]

If a definition of a "decent connection" is from the service 15 minutes beforehand, with your connection departing just as those from the following main service are starting up the footbridge, then there's a job waiting on Donald Trump's PR team for such a writer.

The whole thing stems from trying to run the shuttle with just one unit and minimalist turnrounds, all day. Presumably any delay, on a line still shared with freight, means the whole service is knocked off balance. I guess when the shuttle gets more than a few minutes late a whole round trip will be cancelled.

The minimum connection time at West Ealing is 3 minutes. Until midday, there is a valid 3-minute connection from the Greenford shuttle to the electric train from Hayes (except that for some inexplicable reason the 1124 arrival from Greenford does not connect to the 1126 to Paddington). After midday, there is a valid 3-minute connection (actually usually it's 4 or 5 minutes) from the electric train from Paddington to Hayes into the Greenford shuttle at West Ealing. (Admittedly after 1800 the connections become longer, though I'm not sure why.)

Being as it is impossible to have valid connections in both directions, I think they've done reasonably well to prioritise connections in the peak flow directions while maintaining the required quantum of freight paths - it's not ideal, but it's as good as it can be, and it'll get a lot better once the "mainline" service is run by Crossrail and is a little more frequent.

 

[Taunton]

Being as it is impossible to have valid connections in both directions

It's actually quite possible to have valid connections both ways, you just use two trains, passing en route (double track all the way, after all). Now you may feel that this is profligate, but when you optimise your main service for its own ends, and optimise the number of mainstream electric units in use, you do end up with some odds and ends on branches like this; another 2-car diesel is one of the lesser costs of optimising the rest, particularly as vehicle lease costs, maintenance costs, fuel costs, etc nowadays are generally mileage-driven more than by the day.

 

[IrishDave]

It's actually quite possible to have valid connections both ways, you just use two trains, passing en route (double track all the way, after all). Now you may feel that this is profligate, but when you optimise your main service for its own ends, and optimise the number of mainstream electric units in use, you do end up with some odds and ends on branches like this; another 2-car diesel is one of the lesser costs of optimising the rest, particularly as vehicle lease costs, maintenance costs, fuel costs, etc nowadays are generally mileage-driven more than by the day.

Using two trains might be reasonable if you wanted to provide a more frequent service, but using two trains instead of one solely to improve the connections at each end (while still running a half-hourly service) seems to me to be an egregious waste of capacity - especially given that the Greenford branch sees only a third of the passengers of the Windsor branch (~663,000 per year vs. 1.871 million).

Put it this way: why should users of peak stopping trains between Paddington and Reading be forced to stand in a 3-car, rather than getting a seat in a 5-car, just to reduce journey times on the Greenford branch?

 

[NotATrainspott]

The branch needs to be added to the Tube map, regardless of who runs it under what branding with what trains. Adding it to the map means that people know it exists. The act of adding it alone is notable enough, and on a Crossrail feeder line I can only see that being a good thing for passenger numbers. A second train can be added as and when passenger numbers make it worthwhile.

 

[Taunton]

Put it this way: why should users of peak stopping trains between Paddington and Reading be forced to stand in a 3-car, rather than getting a seat in a 5-car, just to reduce journey times on the Greenford branch?

I agree this is a reasonable point, and I've seen peak period two car trains come into Slough looking like something from the Bangladesh Railways, but now that all inner suburban workings are covered by electric stock I presume the days of stock shortage are coming to an end.

 

[Ploughman]

Mods is it possible to split off all the guessing and prattle about what unit may be used on whatever branch and get the thread back on to what it says in the title, Great Western Electrification?

Some will say that rolling stock etc is part of it but there are quite a few on here who want to hear about what Cantilever is fitted to what stanchion and how. But get fed up when someone comes along and says that "All inner suburban workings are covered by electric stock". Nothing to do with the project in hand.

I will duck for cover now.

 

[mr_jrt]

If the conflict is with freight paths, and given only a single unit operates on the branch, could it make sense to resignal it as two bidirectional single lines? That way you only potentially have a conflict at one end, with the passenger service using the current northbound line it would be at Drayton Green junction where the train would need to cross over the current southbound line to reach the West Ealing bay, or with passenger services using the southbound line the conflict would be just the short single line section of Greenford west curve which is already a conflict, so that probably makes more sense.

 

[Nippy]

There is a decent connection, just with the Heathrow Connect service not the original paths. The "cutting" of the Greenford service back to West Ealing has been on the cards since the Crossrail consultation 10+ years ago, so I'm not sure as to why it's all come as such a shock that the journey now takes longer when you have to change...

Yes, You could shuffle the whole thing around the clock until the cows come home, but by "gaining" a few extra minutes connecting out of the 2Sxx, you break the connection on the Up, and vice versa. Any gain in journey time one way will be offset by a loss going the other way. The journey time is always going to be longer and that is an unfortunate byproduct of Crossrail.

Except there isn't in the evening peak. My mate used to get the 17:18 Greenford service ex Padd at Acton ML to travel to Greenford. That arrives at West Ealing at 17:30 as the Greenford Departs the Bay. The official connection is the 17:15 ex Padd but this doesn't call at Acton.

 

[IrishDave]

Except there isn't in the evening peak. My mate used to get the 17:18 Greenford service ex Padd at Acton ML to travel to Greenford. That arrives at West Ealing at 17:30 as the Greenford Departs the Bay. The official connection is the 17:15 ex Padd but this doesn't call at Acton.

The Greenford service was (until today) booked to depart West Ealing at 17:33, and the connection allowance at West Ealing is 3 minutes, so it is a valid official connection off the 17:18 from Paddington. For whatever reason, the Greenford train is retimed to depart 17:35 from Monday (6th Feb), so the connection should be more reliable in future.

 

[Nippy]

That's good news then. Although 3 minutes is a bit tight when you consider how far you have to walk.

 

[deltic08]

Mods is it possible to split off all the guessing and prattle about what unit may be used on whatever branch and get the thread back on to what it says in the title, Great Western Electrification?

Some will say that rolling stock etc is part of it but there are quite a few on here who want to hear about what Cantilever is fitted to what stanchion and how. But get fed up when someone comes along and says that "All inner suburban workings are covered by electric stock". Nothing to do with the project in hand.

I will duck for cover now.

And who will supply this information if it hasn't been provided so far?

 

[Ploughman]

Probably bodies of a similar nature to the regular contributors on the other Electrification threads.
Or is it more that those on the GW are more interested in hours of discussion about the 17.15 ex Paddington?

 

[HowardGWR]

Well just to change the subject, in response to a Bristol MP about Thingley to TM via Bath, I understand the SoS has said that perhaps it might save the heritage of Bath if the wires did not go up there (!). Interestingly, the local Bath heritage watchdog has reacted totally differently to that which he would have hoped, saying they are annoyed it's not going ahead quicker!

It doesn't seem to go well for Mr Grayling, does it? I have a feeling he had forgotten how much has been invested at Box and Bath and the Avon valley area already.

 

[coppercapped]

Probably bodies of a similar nature to the regular contributors on the other Electrification threads.
Or is it more that those on the GW are more interested in hours of discussion about the 17.15 ex Paddington?

But the whole aim of the electrification is to improve the lot of those on the 17.15 ex Paddington, or it has no use at all. For the users of the service, as distinct from the interests of enthusiasts, this is the more important topic.

There is of course always an interest in the nitty-gritty of the equipment being used and its installation, but don't forget that the overhead wires and stanchions are only a part of the whole. There are a whole series of other activities going on which are not in the public view - for example the power supply, distribution, monitoring and control systems - which directly affect the energisation schedules. These are not generally reported - and by missing them a distorted view of progress can be obtained.

Possibly it is not so easy to obtain photographic evidence of the overhead installation work as it is for the North West electrifications. West of Reading the line crosses much open countryside; contributors to RUK are few and far between in this area compared to the much larger numbers in the more densely populated areas in the triangle formed by Manchester, Liverpool and Blackpool. Equally there are no photogenic works being carried out similar to the new bridges for the Ordsall chord - freelance photography in the depths of the Box and Severn tunnels being deprecated!

 

[TheKnightWho]

Well just to change the subject, in response to a Bristol MP about Thingley to TM via Bath, I understand the SoS has said that perhaps it might save the heritage of Bath if the wires did not go up there (!). Interestingly, the local Bath heritage watchdog has reacted totally differently to that which he would have hoped, saying they are annoyed it's not going ahead quicker!

It doesn't seem to go well for Mr Grayling, does it? I have a feeling he had forgotten how much has been invested at Box and Bath and the Avon valley area already.

It seems like they're trying to find any way out of actually completing the project!

 

[Dave1987]

Well just to change the subject, in response to a Bristol MP about Thingley to TM via Bath, I understand the SoS has said that perhaps it might save the heritage of Bath if the wires did not go up there (!). Interestingly, the local Bath heritage watchdog has reacted totally differently to that which he would have hoped, saying they are annoyed it's not going ahead quicker!

It doesn't seem to go well for Mr Grayling, does it? I have a feeling he had forgotten how much has been invested at Box and Bath and the Avon valley area already.

The rhetoric coming out of the DFT now seems more and more that electrification won't be completed. More and more I'm starting to believe RF & IW are totally correct.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

If they're not going to electrify through Bath then they'd better decide bloody quickly. The next blockade is coming up imminently which will slew the running lines to the centre of the formation through the station with platforms being extended outwards to remove the canopy clearance issue, which of course allows wires but subjects all alighting and disembarking passengers to getting wet in the rain. This goes along with the several week blockades of Sydney Gardens (track lowering), Bathampton Jn (track lowering to protect nondescript but listed overbridge) and Box Tunnel (track lowering! fittings etc) plus several years of weekend /late night possessions to date. All of the pain and non (or very little) of the gain, eh?

And what exactly happens when at some future point Bristol Metro happens, the price of oil is nice and high again and someone decides to electrify radial commuter routes. Are Bath / Bradford / Trowbridge / Warminster to be permanently excluded from any rolling stock beyond the Turbos currently planned?

 

[Chris125]

The platform changes at Bath will in part be needed to cope with the IET's so there's really no point in revising them now, and Network Rail appear to be taking the view that electrification will still take place in the future so I can't see the harm. As for politicians putting a gloss on a things, that's what they do.