New South Western franchise: Awarded to First/MTR

[b0b]

The next franchise could, assuming that it works well, use 319 flex's to run the Salisbury 6 services (Salisbury to Romsey via Southampton and Eastleigh) freeing up some 158's

is that being largely being planned for OHLE as part of the spline, otherwise I'm not sure how thats going to work with the flex units. AIUI the 750v DC is being connected to a generator rather than the shoegear, and I don't know if there were plans to retain any sort of switch between the shoegear and the generator. Its 25kV or generator up north.

 

[The Ham]

Currently South West Trains have a policy that they try not to disrupte the same people each time where are service disruptions. I wonder if First / MTR will continue this practice.

I'm not certain how South West Trains are able to implement it, given they need to get staff to their next diagram and so fourth but they mentioned it in a live web chat so must be able to do something.

Then the policy isn't working very well, as it fairly common for the Basingstoke stoppers to be disrupted and in the evening peak it is fairly common, when there is disruption, for it to be difficult to get from Woking to Farnborough, yet Woking to Basingstoke is almost as easy as it always is but staff won't allow passengers to travel to Basingstoke to double back.

In one recent disruption SWT has to pay for a while class of school children to get back to Hook as they would have otherwise been stuck at Basingstoke.

Yes, Farnborough, Fleet, Winchfield and Hook don't have huge numbers of passengers, but between then they total about the same as Basingstoke, and although from Waterloo they often retain their services there are still significant numbers of passengers who aren't traveling to/from London which are currently appear to be overlooked.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

When the Lymington branch does eventually go over to being a 450 all the time, will they still run it with a 158 once in a while to maintain traction knowledge for guards and drivers who sign the branch?

 

[theironroad]

When the Lymington branch does eventually go over to being a 450 all the time, will they still run it with a 158 once in a while to maintain traction knowledge for guards and drivers who sign the branch?

Extremely unlikely. <1% chance.

 

[Bornin1980s]

When the Lymington branch does eventually go over to being a 450 all the time, will they still run it with a 158 once in a while to maintain traction knowledge for guards and drivers who sign the branch?

Why is that needed?

 

[infobleep]

Then the policy isn't working very well, as it fairly common for the Basingstoke stoppers to be disrupted and in the evening peak it is fairly common, when there is disruption, for it to be difficult to get from Woking to Farnborough, yet Woking to Basingstoke is almost as easy as it always is but staff won't allow passengers to travel to Basingstoke to double back.

In one recent disruption SWT has to pay for a while class of school children to get back to Hook as they would have otherwise been stuck at Basingstoke.

Yes, Farnborough, Fleet, Winchfield and Hook don't have huge numbers of passengers, but between then they total about the same as Basingstoke, and although from Waterloo they often retain their services there are still significant numbers of passengers who aren't traveling to/from London which are currently appear to be overlooked.

If it was the last train of the night, how long would the wait have been for the school children? I've seen gaps of over an hour between services from Guildford to Woking and visa versa during disruption. This can occur if services to or from Portsmouth are all diverted via Basingstoke.

Very occasionally I've seen Woking stoppers head to Guildford but that's rare. I suspect it's dependant on avilanle staff, which goes back to my point about being able to vary whose disrupted.

 

[The Ham]

If it was the last train of the night, how long would the wait have been for the school children? I've seen gaps of over an hour between services from Guildford to Woking and visa versa during disruption. This can occur if services to or from Portsmouth are all diverted via Basingstoke.

Very occasionally I've seen Woking stoppers head to Guildford but that's rare. I suspect it's dependant on avilanle staff, which goes back to my point about being able to vary whose disrupted.

It was the middle of the day (the children were going back to school for lunch).

Much as varying what is disrupted could at first glance appear to be "fair" there are certain services that would have very limited impact, for instance of you turn back the services from Weymouth at Basingstoke and move those passengers onto the "stopping service" that has also come up from the south coast the calling pattern would be Fleet, Farnborough, Clapham Junction and London rather than just Clapham Junction and London. Given the train is only about 7 minutes later at Basingstoke the arrival time into Waterloo would be about 15 minutes later, which is hardly going to impact many people by very much.

Therefore, always cancelling that service (or alternating it with the WofE services) could be fairer than trying to limit the impact so that everyone is disrupted over the course of several disruptions, as for most of you cancel a service they are going to be delayed by at least half an hour, although more often than not it effectively stops travel between certain Stations for a period of time.

Bally it is fairer to cancel express services target than stopping services as everyone can get where they need to, it will just take slightly longer.

One trick that appears to happen, at least on stopping services, is that they are shown as running, then running late until almost the last minute before being cancelled so that passengers don't ask for a taxi. I know if another case where someone was stuck at Basingstoke during disruption and had to get a friend to pick their child up from childcare because of that (both this and the school children incidents were within​ a year of each other, and given how rare major incidents are on the SWML that is above average of disruption is supposed to be equally spread over services).

 

[embers25]

Then the policy isn't working very well, as it fairly common for the Basingstoke stoppers to be disrupted and in the evening peak it is fairly common, when there is disruption, for it to be difficult to get from Woking to Farnborough, yet Woking to Basingstoke is almost as easy as it always is but staff won't allow passengers to travel to Basingstoke to double back.

During disruption Exeter and Salisbury services (ie. 2 of the 3 fast Woking-Basingstoke trains per hour) are terminated at Basingstoke meaning Woking to Basingstoke actually only gets an hourly fast service on the Waterloo-Portsmouth via Fareham service so hardly "almost as easy". In addition they then cancel at least every other local to Basingstoke leaving 2 trains total per hour instead of 5. As a regular Exeter-Woking commuter this is nightmare. The most recent disruption they added stops on the Weymouth trains at Woking and Basingstoke but usually they only add Basingstoke meaning Basingstoke to Waterloo fairs ok but Basingstoke to Woking remains screwed.

 

[Olaf]

The ten working-days stand-still milestone has past, but the contract does not appear to have been signed-off.

 

[iantherev]

But at least if you turn WOE services at Basingstoke the service west of there can run virtually as timetabled. When trains run beyond into disruption, it usually means that everything loses its booked path and chaos reigns. I've known 3 hour gaps at Exeter when something has gone wrong further up the line.

 

[TheManBehind]

One trick that appears to happen, at least on stopping services, is that they are shown as running, then running late until almost the last minute before being cancelled so that passengers don't ask for a taxi.

I'm not sure that control centres are spending that much time on the minutiae of service amendments to avoid the few hundred pounds a month in cab fares that that would save!

 

[theironroad]

But at least if you turn WOE services at Basingstoke the service west of there can run virtually as timetabled. When trains run beyond into disruption, it usually means that everything loses its booked path and chaos reigns. I've known 3 hour gaps at Exeter when something has gone wrong further up the line.

I understand that is why woe services are terminated at Basingstoke and it makes some sense. There are a number of single line sections west of Salisbury and if the timetable isn't adhered to then as you say chaos reigns. So as annoying it is for woe passengers to have to change at Basingstoke, it is good for those passengers who travel west of salisbury.

 

[embers25]

I understand that is why woe services are terminated at Basingstoke and it makes some sense. There are a number of single line sections west of Salisbury and if the timetable isn't adhered to then as you say chaos reigns. So as annoying it is for woe passengers to have to change at Basingstoke, it is good for those passengers who travel west of salisbury.

100% agree with terminating at Basingstoke but they need to add stops on the Weymouth's at Woking and Clapham to cover which they rarely do.

 

[swt_passenger]

When the Lymington branch does eventually go over to being a 450 all the time, will they still run it with a 158 once in a while to maintain traction knowledge for guards and drivers who sign the branch?

Why? Before the 158s appeared they had to specially train some Bournemouth staff on DMUs. There was no need for DMU knowledge previously, and there won't be any need again when they have been replaced.

You just seem to want to complicate things as much as possible.

 

[pompeyfan]

I do actually think it's worth while for Bournemouth crew to retain 158 knowledge, if only for the extras they run occasionally like the Salisbury Christmas extras that they ran recently.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

I do actually think it's worth while for Bournemouth crew to retain 158 knowledge, if only for the extras they run occasionally like the Salisbury Christmas extras that they ran recently.

Also if the juice craps itself around the Upwey area which it has done a number of times in the past

 

[swt_passenger]

Also if the juice craps itself around the Upwey area which it has done a number of times in the past

Perhaps they should keep a load of spare DMUs in Weymouth and Dorchester, eh? Just in case the juice fails... :roll:

 

[vikingdriver]

I do actually think it's worth while for Bournemouth crew to retain 158 knowledge, if only for the extras they run occasionally like the Salisbury Christmas extras that they ran recently.

Those Salisbury Christmas shopper / Santa Special services were Salisbury crew (including Santa!).

 

[pompeyfan]

Those Salisbury Christmas shopper / Santa Special services were Salisbury crew (including Santa!).

I didn't realise that, I'd have assumed a BM crew to Weymouth then an SA crew up to Salisbury. I didn't realise Salisbury signed west of Redbridge or east of Dorchester.

 

[vikingdriver]

I didn't realise that, I'd have assumed a BM crew to Weymouth then an SA crew up to Salisbury. I didn't realise Salisbury signed west of Redbridge or east of Dorchester.

They came up to Salisbury via Dorchester West and Yeovil Pen Mill / Jct. Some Salisbury crew learnt it for the summer Weymouth services.

 

[swt_passenger]

Those Salisbury Christmas shopper / Santa Special services were Salisbury crew (including Santa!).

...and of course they might never happen again. Bit of a long shot anyway to use a Christmas extra to justify DMU training all round...

 

[godfreycomplex]

Perhaps they should keep a load of spare DMUs in Weymouth and Dorchester, eh? Just in case the juice fails... :roll:

They're resurrecting the goods yard at Liss just to park a 159 in if it ever breaks around there I gather

 

[Monty]

I do actually think it's worth while for Bournemouth crew to retain 158 knowledge, if only for the extras they run occasionally like the Salisbury Christmas extras that they ran recently.

Unlikely to happen as it's only a very modest number that sign 158/159s and none sign the route to Salisbury. As others have pointed out, last years services were covered by Salisbury crew and went via Yeovil Pen Mill.

 

[pompeyfan]

Yeah I was aware they went via Weymouth, Dorchester and Yeovil, just didn't realise Salisbury signed Bournemouth to Weymouth, but was aware they signed Weymouth to Yeovil. To be fair a few Fratton drivers sign to Weymouth and sign 158/159s for MPV work, guards would be the only issue.

 

[Monty]

Yeah I was aware they went via Weymouth, Dorchester and Yeovil, just didn't realise Salisbury signed Bournemouth to Weymouth, but was aware they signed Weymouth to Yeovil. To be fair a few Fratton drivers sign to Weymouth and sign 158/159s for MPV work, guards would be the only issue.

Again it's only a small number that sign Yeovil to Weymouth, but none sign between Weymouth and Bournemouth afaik. As for the Fratton drivers it's still only a small number no where near enough to run any kind of service.

 

[Brown]

Sorry I am a newbie but a train enthusiast. Please someone kindly explain what this new franchise mean to the current line. I can see few posts and comments that the tph will increase and so as the number of carriages. Does it also reduce the travel time ?

All of these are just speculations or any firm rules to be implemented by the new operator ?

I am very excited to see the new operator and optimistic for increase of efficiency in the line.

 

[HH]

Journey times should be cut; indeed I believe that DfT mandated some improvements.

 

[swt_passenger]

Sorry I am a newbie but a train enthusiast. Please someone kindly explain what this new franchise mean to the current line. I can see few posts and comments that the tph will increase and so as the number of carriages. Does it also reduce the travel time ?

All of these are just speculations or any firm rules to be implemented by the new operator ?

I am very excited to see the new operator and optimistic for increase of efficiency in the line.

The invitation to tender (ITT) specified 4 tph Waterloo to Reading all day, but it won't be four of the same speed or calling pattern 2 will be relatively faster than the others.

The calling patterns were left to the bidders to decide, many station calling patterns (per hour) were able to be shared across different routes, and it was also allowable to send some "Readings" via the Hounslow loop. However First have chosen to send all four Reading services via Twickenham, and divert their two extra Windsor services via the Hounslow loop instead.

The end result may be that the Weybridge - Waterloo service is cut back to a shuttle, another option that was given in the ITT - there hasn't been any news about potential downsides to the changes yet. (Funnily enough)

Please don't assume the future timetable is all a great idea by First group, they are basically providing the broad level of service on the Windsor side that any or either bidder was required to do according to the ITT.

The ITT requirements are shown here, however it is in Excel spreadsheet format: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...tachment-a-part1-train-service-provision.xlsx

It is fair to say though that the rolling stock changes are purely down to First.

 

[swt_passenger]

They're resurrecting the goods yard at Liss just to park a 159 in if it ever breaks around there I gather

Great idea. There must be loads of spare DMUs available around the country, it must be easy to have enough positioned at say Micheldever to cover the mainline as well? If they could get a few of every different class, and leave them in their original liveries as well wouldn't it be absolutely brilliant for local trainspotters? :roll:

 

[infobleep]

100% agree with terminating at Basingstoke but they need to add stops on the Weymouth's at Woking and Clapham to cover which they rarely do.

Their argument might be if they did that, the would delay other passengers. They could also add there will slays be winners and losers.