New South Western franchise: Awarded to First/MTR

[infobleep]

Great idea. There must be loads of spare DMUs available around the country, it must be easy to have enough positioned at say Micheldever to cover the mainline as well? If they could get a few of every different class, and leave them in their original liveries as well wouldn't it be absolutely brilliant for local trainspotters? :roll:

So is Liss not on the main line then? Haha.

 

[pompeyfan]

So is Liss not on the main line then? Haha.

According to some, the Pompey direct is just a branch line apparently

 

[HarleyDavidson]

So what does that make the Alton line? ALUA or ALUG get most peeved if you call it a branch line (which it is) and not a mainline which it most certainly isn't and never has been, even when it went to Winchester.

The good folk of Winchester must be so glad that there's a nice big gap between them and that lot over at Alton. Let's be thankful it will NEVER reopen.

 

[infobleep]

According to some, the Pompey direct is just a branch line apparently

That's probably another thread. What is a branch line and what isn't and what is now a branch like but once wasn't.

 

[infobleep]

So what does that make the Alton line? ALUA or ALUG get most peeved if you call it a branch line (which it is) and not a mainline which it most certainly isn't and never has been, even when it went to Winchester.

The good folk of Winchester must be so glad that there's a nice big gap between them and that lot over at Alton. Let's be thankful it will NEVER reopen.

But they have two services an hour in the evening. Even when the Portsmouth Direct Line has services from Portsmouth and Haslemere reduced from four an hour to two, the Alton Line still gets its two services an hour. That must count for something.

Is their a Portsmouth Line Users Association?

 

[pompeyfan]

But they have two services an hour in the evening. Even when the Portsmouth Direct Line has services from Portsmouth and Haslemere reduced from four an hour to two, the Alton Line still gets its two services an hour. That must count for something.

Is their a Portsmouth Line Users Association?

There's a 'gold card of Haslemere' association, and Liss and Liphook residents can be pretty vocal too!

 

[SpacePhoenix]

So what does that make the Alton line? ALUA or ALUG get most peeved if you call it a branch line (which it is) and not a mainline which it most certainly isn't and never has been, even when it went to Winchester.

The good folk of Winchester must be so glad that there's a nice big gap between them and that lot over at Alton. Let's be thankful it will NEVER reopen.

But they have two services an hour in the evening. Even when the Portsmouth Direct Line has services from Portsmouth and Haslemere reduced from four an hour to two, the Alton Line still gets its two services an hour. That must count for something.

Is their a Portsmouth Line Users Association?

Would the Alton branch get 2tph had the Watercress Railway not existed?

 

[HarleyDavidson]

Would the Alton branch get 2tph had the Watercress Railway not existed?

It might as well not exist as it barely runs any sort of meaningful service. It's only the commuters that keep it open. If you see the trains in the evening you get most of them running with just a few and we're talking about less than 10 on a 12 car, sometimes empty and they seem to think that they can justify a half hourly service there.

It would be far more appropriate to do an hourly service with just a 4 car coming off the front of an 8 car, the rear 4 terminating at Farnham and going to the shed.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

It might as well not exist as it barely runs any sort of meaningful service. It's only the commuters that keep it open. If you see the trains in the evening you get most of them running with just a few and we're talking about less than 10 on a 12 car, sometimes empty and they seem to think that they can justify a half hourly service there.

It would be far more appropriate to do an hourly service with just a 4 car coming off the front of an 8 car, the rear 4 terminating at Farnham and going to the shed.

Could Farnham cope with 1 of the 2tph terminating there and for the other only one unit continuing to Alton?

Does the Watercress Railway make much difference to loadings during the peak of summer?

 

[HarleyDavidson]

Easily, it can do 2tph which it does quite often with the manky signalling down the single line.

You could quite easily do front 4 from Farnham and attach on rear at Farnham without much of an issue, the only time they need an 8 or more is early in the morning/evening.

The only time you might get a bit more patronage to Alton is when they hold a gala or RAT, but it doesn't have much effect as most people seem to drive as there's a lot of parking space or go down the line.

 

[swt_passenger]

So is Liss not on the main line then? Haha.

It isn't on the Weymouth Line, which is my main line! Your view may be different, but don't forget it was only meant as a sarcastic response to a relatively ridiculous idea...

 

[3141]

London - Basingstoke - Winchester - Southampton was the LSWR's original main line. Over the years the line to Exeter gradually assumed more and more importance, but when express services to Exeter and places further West were concentrated on the Western Region route and regular expresses were withdrawn from the line to Exeter Central (1967 ??) the Southern Region told its staff "This [i.e. the line to Southampton] is our main line now".

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

London - Basingstoke - Winchester - Southampton was the LSWR's original main line. Over the years the line to Exeter gradually assumed more and more importance, but when express services to Exeter and places further West were concentrated on the Western Region route and regular expresses were withdrawn from the line to Exeter Central (1967 ??) the Southern Region told its staff "This [i.e. the line to Southampton] is our main line now".

In fact is was originally the London and Southampton Railway until it changed its name to LSWR in 1839 when it planned to serve Portsmouth.
The engineer was Joseph Locke (still contributing on this forum!), normally associated with the northern WCML and the Caledonian.

 

[infobleep]

It isn't on the Weymouth Line, which is my main line! Your view may be different, but don't forget it was only meant as a sarcastic response to a relatively ridiculous idea...

I know it was meant to be light hearted but I couldn't resist my reply.

 

[infobleep]

Does anyone know if the ITT made any reference to boxing day? What are the chances of First / MTR running boxing day services. If it's not in the ITT, very little I imagine. It's not as if there are any airports along the line, bar Southampton.

 

[Brown]

The invitation to tender (ITT) specified 4 tph Waterloo to Reading all day, but it won't be four of the same speed or calling pattern 2 will be relatively faster than the others.

The calling patterns were left to the bidders to decide, many station calling patterns (per hour) were able to be shared across different routes, and it was also allowable to send some "Readings" via the Hounslow loop. However First have chosen to send all four Reading services via Twickenham, and divert their two extra Windsor services via the Hounslow loop instead.

The end result may be that the Weybridge - Waterloo service is cut back to a shuttle, another option that was given in the ITT - there hasn't been any news about potential downsides to the changes yet. (Funnily enough)

Please don't assume the future timetable is all a great idea by First group, they are basically providing the broad level of service on the Windsor side that any or either bidder was required to do according to the ITT.

The ITT requirements are shown here, however it is in Excel spreadsheet format: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...tachment-a-part1-train-service-provision.xlsx

It is fair to say though that the rolling stock changes are purely down to First.

Thanks for the detailed info..

 

[Helvellyn]

It will be interesting to see the effect of having a Saturday service on Sunday afternoons and evenings on traincrew rosters. Some Depots still manage one in two Sundays off, so this will reduce that. Will also make Sunday rosters even more imbalanced, as they are already weighted more towards late turns rather than early ones.

It will also be interesting to see what impact it has on engineering works. I am sure I recall being told that the 2004 timetable recast was designed on a Sunday to effectively allow a two-track railway on the Main Lines between Waterloo and Clapham (the same as can happen late evenings during the week). A Saturday frequency on a Sunday afternoon won't allow that, so any significant engineering work will impact much more on the timetable. It will be similar on the Windsor side after 4tph to Reading and Windsor come in.

 

[Brown]

Any one have information on closing down few stations permanently inbetween Reading and Waterloo ?

 

[theironroad]

It will be interesting to see the effect of having a Saturday service on Sunday afternoons and evenings on traincrew rosters. Some Depots still manage one in two Sundays off, so this will reduce that. Will also make Sunday rosters even more imbalanced, as they are already weighted more towards late turns rather than early ones.

It will also be interesting to see what impact it has on engineering works. I am sure I recall being told that the 2004 timetable recast was designed on a Sunday to effectively allow a two-track railway on the Main Lines between Waterloo and Clapham (the same as can happen late evenings during the week). A Saturday frequency on a Sunday afternoon won't allow that, so any significant engineering work will impact much more on the timetable. It will be similar on the Windsor side after 4tph to Reading and Windsor come in.

Unless there is major engineering work, all lines between Waterloo and clapham are usually open after approx 1pm on a Sunday already. Before 1pm the tracks are walked by NR staff as part of their routine patrolling maintenance and this has been going on for years, so if the first group plan is only to boost Sunday pm services ( which to a minor extent set have started to do) and which are busier with weekenders returning home, then from a track availability point of view it's not much different leaving engineering work aside. Increased Sunday train crew availability is another matter even though Swt has Sundays within the working week.

 

[theironroad]

Any one have information on closing down few stations permanently inbetween Reading and Waterloo ?

Yeah, i heard the same.

Plans are to permanently close Putney, Richmond and Twickenham.







Oh, hang on we're past 1st April.


I don't realistically see any stations closing anywhere on the swt network any time soon.

 

[Bungle965]

Any one have information on closing down few stations permanently inbetween Reading and Waterloo ?

I assume that you are joking?
Sam

 

[southern442]

If any station was to close, surely it would be Longcross. But it would be too much unnecessary expenditure to seriously do this.

 

[swt_passenger]

Any one have information on closing down few stations permanently inbetween Reading and Waterloo ?

Some stations will not get the 4 tph service, it's the only way they can speed the service up, but none will get a reduced service compared to currently.

 

[swt_passenger]

If any station was to close, surely it would be Longcross. But it would be too much unnecessary expenditure to seriously do this.

Even Longcross has to keep at least a peak flow service, it is all detailed in the ITT.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

If the Portsmouth-Weymouth route is either 3x450 or 2x450 will it divide at Southampton or Bournemouth, continuing as 1x450 to Weymouth?

 

[swt_passenger]

If the Portsmouth-Weymouth route is either 3x450 or 2x450 will it divide at Southampton or Bournemouth, continuing as 1x450 to Weymouth?

It is unlikely to be 12 car, and if it is joined to the existing stopper as expected, 8 car might be overkill. Remember most stations are relatively short between Portsmouth and Southampton, so 8 cars would be using ASDO a lot.

 

[pompeyfan]

It is unlikely to be 12 car, and if it is joined to the existing stopper as expected, 8 car might be overkill. Remember most stations are relatively short between Portsmouth and Southampton, so 8 cars would be using ASDO a lot.

There was an 8 car (for the first time I've ever seen or heard about it) on Saturday morning. The majority of stops beteeen Fareham and Southampton will release 7, except for Hamble, Bitterne and St Denys. Don't forget though the service will be semi fast, whatever that means. One would imagine Harbour, Southsea, Fratton, Cosham, Fareham, Swanwick and possibly Netley or Sholing. I agree though, 8 cars would be overkill. Will be interesting when more details do start to appear. Are there any plans to review the ASDO configuration? A fair few stations can comfortably have an extra carriage or possibly 2 released, and even then there's a few meters grace.

 

[TEW]

Even Longcross has to keep at least a peak flow service, it is all detailed in the ITT.

Even Longcross may have calls for extra services in the future given the current housing development in the area.

 

[Goldfish62]

Even Longcross may have calls for extra services in the future given the current housing development in the area.

I'm expecting Longcross to have at least 1tph all day within the next couple of years with the development of the new garden city or whatever it's being classed as.

 

[Wookiee]

Great idea. There must be loads of spare DMUs available around the country, it must be easy to have enough positioned at say Micheldever to cover the mainline as well? If they could get a few of every different class, and leave them in their original liveries as well wouldn't it be absolutely brilliant for local trainspotters? :roll:

Judging by the state of the freight wagons that have been parked up at Micheldever for donkey's years, anything left there would be quickly "reliveried" anyway.