Possible plans for Edinburgh Waverley station?

[Blindtraveler]

Where would you put this additional lift then?
Genuinely interested

 

[Zoidberg]

Where would you put this additional lift then?
Genuinely interested

Ah, additional capacity does not, necessarily, mean an additional lift. But does the existing one run at full capacity? I've never seen queues of mobility challenged folk waiting for it when I have been in the station.

 

[Chrism20]

Would shutting all the bus stops at the top of the Waverley steps and having a taxi rank on either side of the road be better long term?

It would mean a bit of a longer walk if going to the station by bus but it might be an improvement on the current situation.

Market St is an absolute mess and it's only a matter of time until someone gets knocked down along there. Between drop offs, delivery vans and taxis just stopping where ever it's an accident waiting to happen.

 

[Blindtraveler]

The wate time for the current lift is very long at peek times and its small. A taxi arrangement down below would simply not work without additional lifts or a travelater. Speeking of travelaters one would have to be provided to Waverley bridge should that be used, which will never happen anyway as the tour and airport buses would struggle to opperate from anywhere else. The only reason things are such a pickle is due to the council doing what they do best, i.e nothing.

 

[Zoidberg]

The wate time for the current lift is very long at peek times and its small. A taxi arrangement down below would simply not work without additional lifts or a travelater. Speeking of travelaters one would have to be provided to Waverley bridge should that be used, which will never happen anyway as the tour and airport buses would struggle to opperate from anywhere else. The only reason things are such a pickle is due to the council doing what they do best, i.e nothing.

I'd not realised that the lift is so heavily used at peak times. That just shows that the planning that went into its provision was not properly informed in terms of potential use.

Perhaps it would help to "escalate" the existing steps, but I detest escalators and travelators since they go too slowly. That is not the real problem. The real problem is folk taking up the whole width and preventing people walking at a sensible pace getting past.

 

[Blindtraveler]

The market Street Entrance rebuild was IMO poorly thought out.
Travelaters there would make sense as suitcases can use them easier, same goes for Waverley Steps too if im honest. The pare of 16 person lifts on that side are to slow and unreliable too and the escalaters are ajoke, its a note worthy event when all are in opperation for any lengthy period.

 

[Blindtraveler]

As a bit of background for irregular users, the P8/9 Island is the default location for all VTWC services, 1TP2H, and in between services XC, A to B terminaters, some VTEC and the occasional North Berwick. Naturally pax exiting the station who dont need Princes Street use lift/stairs to Market Street as does anyone using pre booked taxis or those requiring taxis who dont fancy the walk to Waverley Bridge. I do try to use the Ramps if I need a cab as whilst im fat I can still move and I dont insist on pulling a huge case behind me.

 

[mark-h]

I often see people waiting for the Market Street lift- not always those with, visible, disabilities but also those luggage and prams.

Increased traffic to the car park level will make the situation worse (the car park is a longer journey than the street). The car park stairs are not good for people with luggage.

Having a two lifts (one footbridge to street and the other car park to footbridge) would make things a lot better.

A higher quality lift than those from Stannah (see C5 Inside Kings Cross thread) would also help.

 

[Blindtraveler]

I find the NR standard issue NEtwork Rail Stanna install pritty robust and Iv gryced a good few of them. The 16 Person Panaramic jobs at the Princes Street side are terrible as the glass makes them very heavy and prone to breaking down if used intensively however the others on the station are actually alrite.

 

[GrimShady]

The TAXI policy is a disaster! The number of times I've had to wait outside in the ****ing rain on one thanks to this stupid policy, considering half the trains that use the station are diesel I don't see how it actually improves anything not to mention the rank was away from any shopping areas etc.

 

[47271]

The TAXI policy is a disaster! The number of times I've had to wait outside in the ****ing rain on one thanks to this stupid policy, considering half the trains that use the station are diesel I don't see how it actually improves anything not to mention the rank was away from any shopping areas etc.

I agree that the present rank is a shambles and an embarrassment to the city, but the main reason for removing nearly all vehicles from the inside of Waverley was security rather than pollution.

I don't know if this makes it any better or not, but also bear in mind that the location of the old cab rank will be swallowed by the extensions to platforms 5 and 6 to accomodate full length trains.

 

[edwin_m]

Imagine the carnage if someone used an in-station cab rank for a Westminster-style attack.

 

[GrimShady]

I agree that the present rank is a shambles and an embarrassment to the city, but the main reason for removing nearly all vehicles from the inside of Waverley was security rather than pollution.

I don't know if this makes it any better or not, but also bear in mind that the location of the old cab rank will be swallowed by the extensions to platforms 5 and 6 to accomodate full length trains.

I was under the impression it was due to clean air nonsense, seems I was misinformed

Will the new/former Motorail platforms be used for Provincial or Intercity trains?

Anyway Market Street should have a shelter erected for the Taxi rank. I noticed NR are going to reorientate the escalators at Platform 12, good idea however weren't these only installed a few years back? Was there a Victorian staircase in that area previously?

 

[jopsuk]

the platform extensions are so that IEP trains, up to 2x5 car, can terminate in platforms 5&6. There's a potential further phase that will see 5/13 and 6/12 become through platforms, with a scissors halfway (6/7/11/12 becomes an island).

There was no staircase where the escalators are, the staircase is where it has always been?

 

[Chrism20]

I was under the impression it was due to clean air nonsense, seems I was misinformed

Will the new/former Motorail platforms be used for Provincial or Intercity trains?

Anyway Market Street should have a shelter erected for the Taxi rank. I noticed NR are going to reorientation the escalators at Platform 12, good idea however weren't these only installed a few years back? Was there a Victorian staircase in that area previously?

Something needs to be done about Market Street full stop imo. Last Friday night when I got home from Preston there was almost a pile up due to cars/taxis/vans etc double parking or just stopping anywhere. The week before some poor guy on a bike came within an inch of his life and I've been in a few taxis this year along there where the brakes have had to be slammed on as people alighting from another taxi just swing the door open without checking if anything is coming.

Either a covered walkway or a bus shelter would be a good idea although I still think shutting the bus stops at the top of Waverley Steps and having two taxi ranks there (one either side of the road) would be better than Market Street but I'd imagine shutting those stops would cause a riot.

Re the escalators at P11 there weren't any stairs there before that I can remember, the only stairs at that side are the ones that used to be behind and above what used to be Dixies/Quiksnack/Sockshop/Lastminute or whatever else has been in there over the last twenty odd years.

 

[gsnedders]

Re the escalators at P11 there weren't any stairs there before that I can remember, the only stairs at that side are the ones that used to be behind and above what used to be Dixies/Quiksnack/Sockshop/Lastminute or whatever else has been in there over the last twenty odd years.

I'm pretty sure there were stairs from the eastern side up to the, um, walkway up above. (As opposed to the western side for the escalators.)

 

[jzw95]

I noticed NR are going to reorientate the escalators at Platform 12, good idea however weren't these only installed a few years back?

Yes. NR were aware they would have to move after only a few years, but wanted to provide the escalators as an enhancement sooner rather than later, and just accept they would have to be moved.

Regarding the taxis, half of the carriageway they used to use, under the footbridge, is now covered with concrete. I was in Waverley yesterday, and they have already started extending the concourse area over the access road. So agree with 47271 that the taxi rank would have had to move somewhere in any case.

A leaflet was recently dropped round at neighbouring flats explaining the changes. They are significant.

http://www.egip.info/media/8473/edinburgh-waverley-platform-extensions-project-leaflet.pdf

 

[Chrism20]

I'm pretty sure there were stairs from the eastern side up to the, um, walkway up above. (As opposed to the western side for the escalators.)

Possibly, the only two sets of steps up to the walkway from when I started in Waverley back in 1996 were the ones where the escalators leading up towards Waverley Steps are and the ones at the opposite end of the ticket hall building that I mentioned earlier. You had to go round the side of the of the building to go up them and when you got to the top you were looking up the south ramp.

IIRC the old refund Office was at the foot of the stairs. Those are the only two sets I can remember from when I worked there - I think

 

[jopsuk]

Either a covered walkway or a bus shelter would be a good idea although I still think shutting the bus stops at the top of Waverley Steps and having two taxi ranks there (one either side of the road) would be better than Market Street but I'd imagine shutting those stops would cause a riot.

Buses before taxis, every time. Actual public transport should take priority over private transport


(the "make 5/6/12/23 through platforms" plan would of course require the removal of the southern ramp, leaving the north ramp as the service and emergency access)

I'm still surprised that when 10 was built, it was just one platform- I'd have thought a full length double platform, giving the same arrangement as 1/2/19/20, would have been more flexible?

 

[InOban]

However the buses on Waverley Bridge are the Airlink and the city tour buses. As I remember, no service routes operate through there. But I can't think of anywhere else they could go.

 

[Mordac]

However the buses on Waverley Bridge are the Airlink and the city tour buses. As I remember, no service routes operate through there. But I can't think of anywhere else they could go.

A few service routes do, but not nearly as many as go elsewhere. Check the map here: https://lothianbuses.co.uk/assets/files/RM120915.pdf

Also, you can take the airport bus as a normal bus as long as you don't go to the airport, if that makes sense.

 

[jopsuk]

However the buses on Waverley Bridge are the Airlink and the city tour buses. As I remember, no service routes operate through there. But I can't think of anywhere else they could go.

"top of the Waverley steps" isn't "Waverley Bridge". Two very different locations! Including nightbus routes, Stops PP and PQ at the top of the Waverley Steps have 53 services (westbound)

the current, rather than 2012, map

 

[GrimShady]

I too have seen my fair share of near misses on Market street. Incidents with taxi doors both embarking & disembarking, loose luggage, walking between taxis. Many of these have been in lashing rain/high wind conditions involving a number of tourists from the East.

 

[GrimShady]

Possibly, the only two sets of steps up to the walkway from when I started in Waverley back in 1996 were the ones where the escalators leading up towards Waverley Steps are and the ones at the opposite end of the ticket hall building that I mentioned earlier. You had to go round the side of the of the building to go up them and when you got to the top you were looking up the south ramp.

IIRC the old refund Office was at the foot of the stairs. Those are the only two sets I can remember from when I worked there - I think

That's the one I was thinking of!

Does any one else think the stairs to Market Street should have escalators?

 

[Chrism20]

Buses before taxis, every time. Actual public transport should take priority over private transport


(the "make 5/6/12/23 through platforms" plan would of course require the removal of the southern ramp, leaving the north ramp as the service and emergency access)

I'm still surprised that when 10 was built, it was just one platform- I'd have thought a full length double platform, giving the same arrangement as 1/2/19/20, would have been more flexible?

I agree that buses should have priority but something radical needs done with the taxis. I knew the suggestion would go down like a lead balloon but it's probably the most workable.

The other option is to ban everything but taxis from Waverley Bridge to the Scotsman Steps on Market Street and actually build a proper taxi pick up/drop off space. Use cameras like what they use on the bus lanes and fine anyone going into the taxi area £60 a time. Non-taxi drop offs could be filtered into the space in New Street car park that they are planning to use for the taxis or Calton Road - a better lift would be required if that was done.

That's the one I was thinking of!

Does any one else think the stairs to Market Street should have escalators?

Definitely, the lift there is woeful. If the taxis are going to be there long term something will need done.

 

[jzw95]

However the buses on Waverley Bridge are the Airlink and the city tour buses. As I remember, no service routes operate through there. But I can't think of anywhere else they could go.

There used to be one normal bus that stopped on Waverley Bridge (41 or something). Currently, I think only the 6 goes across the bridge, but does not stop. The bigger issue is that the pavements on the bridge were widened, and the carriageway narrowed, so there isn't the capacity for a bus stop (aside from the existing airport/tour operations). Presumably this is why the 'normal' stop was removed. Overall, a massive improvement to the bridge, as it was far too crowded for pedestrians before.

But, to get this back to the topic, there is already a taxi rank on the north end of Waverley Bridge. It is a very congested area, as there are also a couple of old phone boxes as well (something about them being privately owned meant they couldn't be removed like the BT ones when the pavement was widened), and lots of pedestrians in this section which connects the north ramp to Princes Street. There isn't really room to extend the taxi rank here, or to install canopies, etc. Removing the phone boxes would certainly help, though.

I believe that accessibility groups aren't that keen on Waverley Bridge as a location, anyway, as the ramps are long and steep for people with reduced mobility.

 

[NotATrainspott]

Buses before taxis, every time. Actual public transport should take priority over private transport


(the "make 5/6/12/23 through platforms" plan would of course require the removal of the southern ramp, leaving the north ramp as the service and emergency access)

I'm still surprised that when 10 was built, it was just one platform- I'd have thought a full length double platform, giving the same arrangement as 1/2/19/20, would have been more flexible?

Presumably because it wasn't necessary at the time? When these works were done ten or so years ago, the addition of three new through platforms would have been quite a major improvement in itself. It doesn't look like any of that work will be wasted when they're extended in future.

The north ramp has an uncertain future as well. Just as P5/6/12/13 will be knocked through to make two new through platforms, so will P18 be extended through the area currently occupied by Caffe Nero and Europcar to make yet another ultra long through platform. I think it would be quite reasonable for NR to change around the servicing access arrangements so that delivery trucks didn't share or use up space that should be dedicated for passengers and retail. The two current ramps would be best replaced by additional concourse space, escalators and lifts as the ramp is pretty steep for pedestrians.

 

[jopsuk]

There needs to be some sort of service vehicle access; I dare say the Fire and Ambulance services will be quite insistent on that. If both ramps from Waverley bridge were removed where would that be?

 

[GrimShady]

Maybe NR should rebuild Princess St for capacity expansion. Another example of poor foresight from the 60s.

 

[iain-j]

The north ramp has an uncertain future as well. Just as P5/6/12/13 will be knocked through to make two new through platforms, so will P18 be extended through the area currently occupied by Caffe Nero and Europcar to make yet another ultra long through platform.

I don't think that extending platform 18 needs to see the North ramp being removed. It seems like it's possible to extend that platform down to and around the North ramp in the same way they are about to extend platform 12.
The BTP building would need to be relocated but the roof support pillars all seem to be in the right place.

Of course, the creation of a long through platform may necessitate its demolition if there isn't enough room for lifts, steps and/or escalators.

The question I have though is what services are going to use all these through platforms?
With platforms 5 and 6 being extended for IEP services that are terminating at Waverley using these platforms, that will mean less out of service trains sitting in the current through platforms.
I haven't heard of any services being extended on through the Calton Tunnels and out to the East of Edinburgh/East Lothian except for the Abbeyhill turn back that was removed from EGIP.

Maybe NR should rebuild Princess St for capacity expansion. Another example of poor foresight from the 60s.

The combination of Princes St. and Waverley would certainly have made a difference to the capacity limitations at the west end of Haymarket. It might have seen a scenario where the links to the Caledonian/NBR day were broken with West Coast trains going into Waverley instead of Princes St. for through connections and then terminating some services at Princes St. that traditionally were Waverley terminators.