Trains advertised short of final destination e.g. to 'Ealing Broadway'

[FGW_DID]

Having worked on the platforms at Didcot, I can say the system works at Didcot and works well!

Every person I had ask 'when the next train to Paddington was' was told the time of the next one, if it happened to be the stopping service, this was explained to them and the time taken to get there given, funny old thing I never had anybody take up the offer of the stopping service, they would all wait for the next fast.

If people did turn up expecting to see a xx:55 London Paddington because they had seen it on line / timetable etc but on arrival at the station, could only see xx:55 Ealing Broadway, they would ask the staff and I refer you to above. Again, funny old thing they never complained about the stopping service being advertised as Ealing Broadway when it was saving themselves approx. 40 mins travelling time.

 

[WelshBluebird]

if it happened to be the stopping service

But that is kind of my point.
Why can't the services be explicitly advertised as stopping services rather than this kind of hidden approach of fake destinations? If you have to explain that to passengers as platform staff anyway, why not use that when advertising services instead as it is clearer than then having to further explain fake destinations.
Or are people too dumb to realise what a stopping service is vs a fast service? (genuine question by the way, based on some things I have heard when travelling I wouldn't be surprised!).

 

[adc82140]

Or are people too dumb to realise what a stopping service is vs a fast service? (genuine question by the way, based on some things I have heard when travelling I wouldn't be surprised!).

You're about right there. I work in a public facing role (not railways), and some people really are that stupid. If the stoppers were advertised as Paddington as the final desination, you can be sure that someone will get on and take to Twitter saying the railways are useless because it took so long.

 

[Class 466]

I agree with the OP, it is very confusing of the TOCs to do this.

I have noticed this at the departures boards at St Pancras as well. Trains going to Ramgate via Medway are listed as going to Faversham. Trains going to Ramsgate via Ashford and Dover are listed as going to Sandwich via Dover Priory which further along the route are advertised as Whitstable via Ramsgate.

The only trains that are listed as actually going to Ramsgate, are those that going to Margate which go via Canterbury West - it is absurd!

This isn't actually true - They're advertised as xx.25 Ramsgate via Faversham and xx.55 Faversham (Because that's where it terminates).

 

[FGW_DID]

But that is kind of my point.
Why can't the services be explicitly advertised as stopping services rather than this kind of hidden approach of fake destinations? If you have to explain that to passengers as platform staff anyway, why not use that when advertising services instead as it is clearer than then having to further explain fake destinations.
Or are people too dumb to realise what a stopping service is vs a fast service? (genuine question by the way, based on some things I have heard when travelling I wouldn't be surprised!).

Both services are stopping services, it's just one stops at way more stations than the other
I think 'local' and 'express' may be better wording and I'm sure no TOC would advertise their services as 'fast' & 'slow' - the social media wags would have a field day with that one :roll:

As for your genuine question, I couldn't possibly comment
but;

Departure Board at top of subway stairs:

xx:25 Oxford Platform 3

Platform 3 info screen (about 3-4 foot away from the departures screen):

xx:25 Oxford, calling at Oxford only.

Passenger walks up stairs, looks at departures board, walks over to Platform 3, looks at info screen;

Pass, "When's the next train to Oxford?"

Staff, "25 past, from this platform" and indicates to the aforementioned info screen above them,

Pass, "Does it stop at Radley?"

:roll::roll::roll::roll:

Another fine example to answer your question:

Westbound HST rolls in, usual crowd alights;

Pass' "Excuse me is this Bristol Parkway?"

Staff, "err...no, this is Didcot Parkway."

Pass, "so Didcot's not another name for Bristol Parkway?"

Staff, "Didcot is Didcot, Bristol is another hour that way"

Pass, "F#*k, which train did I need for Bristol Parkway?"

Staff, "That one!" pointing to the rapidly disappearing, Swindon bound, tail lights of the HST the passenger had just got off.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think 'local' and 'express' may be better wording and I'm sure no TOC would advertise their services as 'fast' & 'slow' - the social media wags would have a field day with that one :roll:

I don't think they actually used "slow" (I got it wrong above), but MKC definitely used to advertise EUSTON FAST, EUSTON SEMI, EUSTON LOCAL (it was that, not "slow") and EUSTON VIRGIN.

"Fast" is a common South East term for "non-stop", you barely hear it elsewhere.

TBH, I'd go for categorisations - something like "Local", "Express" and "InterCity", or somesuch. (We wouldn't really need a RE/D/IR differentiator, as we don't have distinct regional trains like Germany does due to our different funding model - by German definitions our entire network is just S, RB and (I)RE).

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Leeds to Brighouse via Bradford is circular and goes to Huddersfield, Wakefield and back to Leeds after Brighouse. Destination changes as you go through the journey.

As mentioned York to Burley Park via Harrogate is actually a Leeds service. Its so anyone arriving in York doesn't see Leeds and ends up on this very long (but interesting!) service rather than the more frequent fast services.

Similarly from Leeds this service gives Poppleton as the last stop yet it continues to York.

The old "Grand Tour" services haven't operated Monday to Friday for quite some time (though there are interworkings on Saturdays, I'm not sure if they're officially through services or if they're advertised as such). The current Huddersfield to Selby via Bradford and Leeds services are advertised at HUD as Bradford Interchange services. The direct Leeds stoppers quite often have announcements made by guards telling pax that Dewsbury can be reached quicker on the xx45 Scarborough TPE service, and Leeds on the xx55 York/Newcastle. At Leeds, the Huddersfield via Bradford services are advertised as Brighouse to avoid delaying Huddersfield folk, and inadvertently diverting those heading for the likes of Batley, Mirfield, etc.

The Leeds to Sheffield situation was even odder going back a few years- this was before the Northern express services began, so the only fast services were the Cross Country services and the early/late MML runs, which most tickets weren't valid for due to being routed via Doncaster and Mexborough. There was also an evening peak service from Leeds to Sheffield via Huddersfield and Penistone (This was an extension of a Huddersfield stopper to provide a peak extra on the Penistone line) which was advertised at Leeds as being for Dodworth (Barnsley and beyond being reached quicker even on the stopper via CasVegas). This did confuse passengers for local stops to Huddersfield, as they were looking for the Huddersfield train and this was before the modern PIS we have today!

 

[Stonesourscotty]

a few examples here in Sydney where trains on the Western line are advertised for Central yet continue through Central through North Sydney and most of the time beyond.

 

[Andyh82]

The Leeds to Sheffield situation was even odder going back a few years- this was before the Northern express services began, so the only fast services were the Cross Country services and the early/late MML runs, which most tickets weren't valid for due to being routed via Doncaster and Mexborough. There was also an evening peak service from Leeds to Sheffield via Huddersfield and Penistone (This was an extension of a Huddersfield stopper to provide a peak extra on the Penistone line) which was advertised at Leeds as being for Dodworth (Barnsley and beyond being reached quicker even on the stopper via CasVegas). This did confuse passengers for local stops to Huddersfield, as they were looking for the Huddersfield train and this was before the modern PIS we have today!

Of course the blind on the pacer wouldn't have shown Dodworth and would presumably have shown either Huddersfield, Penistone, Sheffield or Lincoln

 

[hairyhandedfool]

I can imagine that few people look at the front of the train (especially when doing the "peasants dash" at Paddington), nevertheless getting on a train and hearing the electronic voice announce a different destination is quite jarring.

I first came across the practice at Oxford, having never been aware of it before, but I worked it out quite quickly and I thought it was quite a good idea, but then I do work for the railway and maybe I'm quite intelligent (I know you don't often hear those two in the same sentence!).

....Or are people too dumb to realise what a stopping service is vs a fast service? (genuine question by the way, based on some things I have heard when travelling I wouldn't be surprised!).

Take people out of their bubble and they can look quite dumb. That's not to say they are stupid as such, it's just how they appear.... And yes, it happens a lot.

Slightly off topic maybe, but I've had requests for tickets "to Scotland", followed by a question of which station in Scotland they want and a reply of "Why? How many are there?". I've had people ask for the time of the next train to St Albans followed by a request for a ticket to Radlett. I've had "a lawyer" tell me it's illegal to charge a £10 admin fee for a replacement season ticket (worth £4k!) and refuse to pay it. I've had someone ask what the cheapest long distance fare is (to a specific place) travelling "some time next month", followed by a long Q&A and search session, then to be told they didn't want next month, they wanted this month. I've had people approach who have "walked past this place for five years and never knew it was a railway station" (obviously never saw the big 'BR' sign outside). I've had people ask for a return "coming back here", to which I've asked where they are going and got the reply "I'm coming back here", leading me to ask (in the least sarcastic voice I could muster under the circumstances) "Okay, but before you come back here, where are you going?". I have to deal with people who have practiced the art of answering questions so perfectly that when I ask something different for once, they still give me the same routine answer they always have, and when they realise, they take their earphones out and ask what the question was.

I've even heard Jo Whiley (of Radio 1 fame) tell a story about her leaving work an hour later than usual, going to Euston to get a "fast" train to Watford, which she assumed was hourly, and ended up on a train that was non-stop to Crewe.

There are also times I've been like a fish out of water, it happens to most of us at some point.

That all said, not everyone takes in data the same way, we've had discussions in this forum before about putting safety information on posters instead of using the public address system, followed by counter argument that no-ones reads posters and the p.a. system is better for communication.

 

[Old Yard Dog]

Through trains are normally considered as "permitted" routes unless otherwise stated. Does a through train taking a very circuitous route (e.g. Accrington - Todmorden - Manchester Vic - Bolton - Blackburn - Clitheroe) cease to be "permitted" if it is advertised as terminating short of its final destination?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Of course the blind on the pacer wouldn't have shown Dodworth and would presumably have shown either Huddersfield, Penistone, Sheffield or Lincoln

In my experience (by no means every day) the service (usually a 3-car 144) generally left Leeds displaying Huddersfield, and I did see the blinds being changed to Sheffield at Ravensthorpe of all places on one occasion- I assume this wasn't the regular method of operation though. Blinds changing at Huddersfield was more common, much like the present arrangement which has the extra Sheffield service running 25mins or so earlier, formed from an ex-Selby via Bradford arrival which is no longer advertised as a through service. As this service is held in P1 until the previous Sheffield arrival arrives into P2, a delay on that service can cause issues with westbound TPE services. Apologies for the topic diversion!

 

[Surreytraveller]

Or are people too dumb to realise what a stopping service is vs a fast service? (genuine question by the way, based on some things I have heard when travelling I wouldn't be surprised!).

In general, yes, people are too dumb. They generally need their hands holding getting on trains - they are not all geographically aware or know the timetables inside out. And the other side of the coin is, I bet the people on this forum moaning about this don't fully understand the workings of the employment of those people.

 

[Surreytraveller]

Through trains are normally considered as "permitted" routes unless otherwise stated. Does a through train taking a very circuitous route (e.g. Accrington - Todmorden - Manchester Vic - Bolton - Blackburn - Clitheroe) cease to be "permitted" if it is advertised as terminating short of its final destination?

No.....

 

[Andyh82]

In general, yes, people are too dumb. They generally need their hands holding getting on trains - they are not all geographically aware or know the timetables inside out. And the other side of the coin is, I bet the people on this forum moaning about this don't fully understand the workings of the employment of those people.

And to be fair, to infrequent users, being confronted by a departure board at a major station with a dozen trains shown, all animating between page 1 and 2 and as soon as you've found your train they all refresh and move along one, whatever is shown as the destination is probably not going to help matters.

The old one at Sheffield (and probably many EMT stations) that used to feature about 20 trains all scrolling in from right to left ticker style was quite over powering even for someone who does know what they are doing.

 

[Muzer]

A couple of points from me.

Firstly, the Farnborough example does show exactly why this is done, but also some of the limitations of this method. Stopping services to London at Southampton Airport (Parkway) are also shown as being to Farnborough, but this raises an interesting point. They're overtaken at Eastleigh, you see, by another service which calls Winchester, Basingstoke, Clapham (I think), and Waterloo. So Winchester and Basingstoke passengers are often seen (by me at least) using the stopping service, despite the fact that they also would be better off catching the next train.

A few people here seem to be missing the point, I feel. People who suggest using complex English or abbreviations or symbols like asterisks to demonstrate that a train is stopping or fast — this completely defeats a primary purpose, as many others have stated, of making it as easy as possible for people who don't speak much English, or people who are in a hurry and only read one line, or people who are so fixated on getting to their destination they ignore anything else, and so on, and so on. While I understand the issues you're pointing out, with it being more confusing for those who have looked at timetables or journey planners which say the final destination of the train, or people who know the local rail geography well but haven't actually used the trains for a while, I feel that these are outweighed by the other issues I just mentioned, and trying to fix those minor issues without also keeping the major ones fixed is missing the point.

I do like the "then" idea but I think it would need testing to see how effective it is in reality — I could easily see it being confused for "via" by people in a rush, etc., which would usually imply it's actually the best service to get.

 

[Failed Unit]

Kings Cross to Cambridge slow services are displayed as Foxton on the boards at the former I believe; I'm presuming southbound it is shown as Finsbury Park or similar.

I would say there's probably good reason to do it in areas where there are significant amounts of foreign visitors (like Oxford, Cambridge and York), as they would simply see 'Cambridge' and get on the train, regardless of what anything in parentheses said. People who need the intermediate stations (like Cholsey, Hammerton or Meldreth) will generally know what to do, or can be guided accordingly, but I suspect the current set up has saved people quite a lot of wasted time!

It used to in the past, but at Kings Cross they are always shown as Cambridge. Not sure if going the other way if they are still shown as Finsbury Park.

Have a bad example the other way, at Doncaster trains to Lincoln via Sheffield are still shown as Lincoln. Very confusing if you are looking for the EMT service.

In the past Peterborough - Doncaster used to be shown as Gainsborough and Peterborough - Newark as its last stop before Newark. Not sure if either happen now. At Newark they were always shown as Peterborough (with lots of announcements that it is a slow service)

 

[Mutant Lemming]

At least it isn't the crazy scenario at Luton Airport Parkway where the stopping services were not even displayed on the main departure board. Crazy in that it not only confused people who wanted intermediate stations but also those wanting through destinations South of the river that the fast trains didn't serve. People with luggage heading to Sutton for instance may prefer not to have to haul their bags off a busy fast train only to wait on the now busy stopping train at Blackfriars they could have caught when it was empty at Luton Airport Parkway.

 

[Ianno87]

It used to in the past, but at Kings Cross they are always shown as Cambridge. Not sure if going the other way if they are still shown as Finsbury Park.

No, all Kings Cross departures from Cambridge are advertised as King's Cross.

The Finsbury Park/Foxton practice ended towards the end of FCC's tenure.

One down side of the practice is that some one travelling to (say) Ashwell & Morden will think 'oh, that's on the line to Cambridge', so may not think to look to look for a train 'terminating' at Foxton.

The current Kings X boards on the main concourse at least make it pretty blithering obvious the number of stops a stopping train to Cambridge will have. Plus there is the "next fastest train to..." display which ignores trains overtaken em-route to Cambridge.

 

[methethpropbut]

I'm personally a fan of the system at King's Cross, which combines the "next fastest train" along with displaying the arrival time - useful for someone going back to Cambridge like myself, and even allows me to look at the next 3 available trains - useful that one time I narrowly missed the XX:44 fast, boarded the XX:52, realised they halved the length from an 8-car to 4 due to a train fault, hopped off, knew in advance to skip the XX:04 and to catch the XX:14 fast instead. Granted, it's not an everyday occurrence but at least every bit of information I needed was clear the one time I need it.

On the flip side though, been personally caught up more than once - and on both sides of the spectrum. The first time I recall was on Southern, the screen said Havant but the announcement said Portsmouth Harbour. The second was on SWT from Waterloo - screen said Addlestone, got on, the announcement said Weybridge. Both times it meant all of a minutes' attention to ensure the train was going to Chichester and Kew Bridge respectively, but I can see how another commuter in my shoes might be a bit more distressed.

Then there's that one time the 18:07 to King's Lynn and the 18:13 stopper to Cambridge were parked side-by-side at Liverpool Street, and goodness knows how I almost got on the latter (the back says Cambridge? Maybe it's because it divides at Cambridge and the front bit goes on to Lynn) yes that was my exact logic. Thankfully, realised it in time. Of course if it were signed as "Shelford" that might have been a whole different story...

Granted these are my own personal experiences as a blithering idiot wandering around the rail network, but I'd hope it at least reflects a cross-section of what the general public encounters on a day-to-day basis.

No, all Kings Cross departures from Cambridge are advertised as King's Cross.

The Finsbury Park/Foxton practice ended towards the end of FCC's tenure.

One down side of the practice is that some one travelling to (say) Ashwell & Morden will think 'oh, that's on the line to Cambridge', so may not think to look to look for a train 'terminating' at Foxton.

The current Kings X boards on the main concourse at least make it pretty blithering obvious the number of stops a stopping train to Cambridge will have. Plus there is the "next fastest train to..." display which ignores trains overtaken em-route to Cambridge.

With everything there's always the edge cases - you're right, the fifteen(?) stops are pretty obvious until it wraps around to Page 2/2 and Cambridge sits there on its own I'm sure I've either seen that once before at King's Cross, or the other way round at Cambridge where King's Cross sits on its own page - either way, it happens, so that's some food for thought

 

[Scotty]

In the past Peterborough - Doncaster used to be shown as Gainsborough and Peterborough - Newark as its last stop before Newark. Not sure if either happen now. At Newark they were always shown as Peterborough (with lots of announcements that it is a slow service)

I've seen an EMT unit with Gainsborough Lea Road on the train display at Peterborough (1150 departure), however it would've gone through to Doncaster. This was in the last few months.

 

[jimm]

So say at Paddington someone unfamiliar is waiting for a train to say Southall, and the train is announced on the main concourse, described as a Twyford service. They walk all the way to platform 14, and see a train sitting there which the destination blind says Reading on. Oh no, they think, I must be on the wrong platform - that can't be my train as my train is for Twyford. So they walk all the way back to the main concourse to check/ask someone, by now they miss the train.

It's a silly way of doing it

Why would they walk back to the concourse?

Astonishingly enough, platforms at Paddington have departure screens which do odd things like show where a train is calling and there are platform dispatchers, as well as gateline staff a lot nearer to platform 14 than the concourse most of the day.

I don't think they actually used "slow" (I got it wrong above), but MKC definitely used to advertise EUSTON FAST, EUSTON SEMI, EUSTON LOCAL (it was that, not "slow") and EUSTON VIRGIN.

"Fast" is a common South East term for "non-stop", you barely hear it elsewhere.

TBH, I'd go for categorisations - something like "Local", "Express" and "InterCity", or somesuch. (We wouldn't really need a RE/D/IR differentiator, as we don't have distinct regional trains like Germany does due to our different funding model - by German definitions our entire network is just S, RB and (I)RE).

And as I, and others, keep trying to tell you, lots of the passengers between London and Oxford are from overseas and no matter what description or branding you stick on a screen, it will be meaningless to many of them, just the same as I may very well find, say, a Japanese departure board confusing - but doubtless you know precisely what all this lot means...

https://thepointsguy.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/JR-train-board-reserved-seats-e1483628312197.jpg

 

[Bletchleyite]

And as I, and others, keep trying to tell you, lots of the passengers between London and Oxford are from overseas and no matter what description or branding you stick on a screen, it will be meaningless to many of them, just the same as I may very well find, say, a Japanese departure board confusing - but doubtless you know precisely what all this lot means...

https://thepointsguy.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/JR-train-board-reserved-seats-e1483628312197.jpg

So, if they're tourists they can cope with taking a bit of extra time to get to Oxford. They will still get there if they take the Turbo by mistake.

Whereas if they want Beaulieu Road from Branksome (actually done this one and was confused, and I deliberately chose Branksome as there were no staff there at the time to ask), and see Farnborough on the displays but London Waterloo on the train, they might think it's the wrong one and *not* get where they are going. All the more so on a DOO service like those out of Padd.

Actually, talking of that board, it has one big feature that reduces a lot of confusion of this kind - a train number. My mind utterly boggles as to why the UK insists on not introducing this passenger-friendly feature. It's not as if the number doesn't already exist (the retail service ID) - it just needs displaying! If you know you need GW1342 as it says so on your Advance ticket (the existence of these via cheaper, slower routes is the biggest reason not to do the false-destination thing), it doesn't matter what destination is showing, that's just a "checksum". And if the reason is "people might confuse it with a time", just ensure it is always defined as a number that can't be a time, i.e. the first digit greater than 2, the third digit greater than 5, or a number of digits not equal to 4.

 

[causton]

I've seen an EMT unit with Gainsborough Lea Road on the train display at Peterborough (1150 departure), however it would've gone through to Doncaster. This was in the last few months.

It was certainly shown as this on Wednesday when I was there

 

[berneyarms]

So, if they're tourists they can cope with taking a bit of extra time to get to Oxford. They will still get there if they take the Turbo by mistake.

That has to be one of the more ridiculous posts that I've ever read on this forum. Utter nonsense. The time differential between the slow and fast trains between London & Oxford is massive (42 minutes). A throwaway comment that tourists can cope with taking extra time is patronising in the extreme.

The system works by and large so why change it? If it didn't work there would be wholesale reports of people getting on wrong trains every day - which there don't appear to be.

This is something that frankly is a non-issue except in some people's heads.

 

[cholsey-choose]

And as I, and others, keep trying to tell you, lots of the passengers between London and Oxford are from overseas and no matter what description or branding you stick on a screen, it will be meaningless to many of them, just the same as I may very well find, say, a Japanese departure board confusing - but doubtless you know precisely what all this lot means...

https://thepointsguy.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/JR-train-board-reserved-seats-e1483628312197.jpg

Navigating the trains in Japan is simplicity itself, because (as you can see on that board) you not only have the destination and time to go by, but also the train number and name (Kagayaki etc).

When I lived in Japan, I had absolutely no trouble directing visitors to my place, ("get on the Thunderbird in this direction..."), even though most busy routes have multiple trains (with different names/numbers) and different stopping patterns.

So your example isn't brilliantly convincing.

 

[GatwickDepress]

Navigating the trains in Japan is simplicity itself, because (as you can see on that board) you not only have the destination and time to go by, but also the train number and name (Kagayaki etc).

When I lived in Japan, I had absolutely no trouble directing visitors to my place, ("get on the Thunderbird in this direction..."), even though most busy routes have multiple trains (with different names/numbers) and different stopping patterns.

So your example isn't brilliantly convincing.

You lived there, so of course you were able to navigate it perfectly.

I've never visited Japan (although I'd love to) and seeing all that information gives me an overload. I've no idea what most of it means. Which I think proves a lot of people in this thread's point that just because you can follow it perfectly doesn't mean others do.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That has to be one of the more ridiculous posts that I've ever read on this forum. Utter nonsense. The time differential between the slow and fast trains between London & Oxford is massive (42 minutes). A throwaway comment that tourists can cope with taking extra time is patronising in the extreme.

No more patronising than lying to passengers because of a patronising view that they are stupid. Actually, far less patronising than that.

It's a ridiculous practice, particularly with modern PIS where there is plenty of scope to say "get that train instead" in some form - IF that train isn't late/cancelled/full and standing, which anything out of Paddington all too often is. Not to mention that off peak tickets are valid to Oxford in the evening peak only on trains from Paddington that claim not to be going to Oxford.

 

[NorthernSpirit]

A while back the Leeds via Bradford departures from Huddersfield were advertised as Bramley before being advertised as Bradford. However the 1923 from Leeds use to be advertised as Halifax via Dewsbury, it snow advertised as Brighouse via Dewsbury but still goes on to Halifax where it sits for 15 minutes before heading back to Leeds.

There is one departure in Leeds which is advertised as Meadowhall with "local stopping service" on the line underneath, this is to get those heading to Sheffield to use the XC which gos around the same time. The former 1743 to Sheffield via Huddersfield stopper was announced as Penistone in Leeds and on a couple of occations Penistone was shown on the blind.

When the Calder Valley is closed for engineering works the following setup is used, Huddersfield stopper is normally cancelled and is normally looped to head back to Leeds via Dewsbury - the xx23 from Leeds is advertised as Halifax via Dewsbury and the xx35 is advertised as Brighouse.

---

When the Henbury loop is reopened I wonder how the services would be advertised?
- Henbury via Clifton Down?
- Henbury via Filton Abbey Wood?

..or possibly...
- Montpellier via Henbury?
- Stapleton Road via Henbury?

 

[jimm]

Navigating the trains in Japan is simplicity itself, because (as you can see on that board) you not only have the destination and time to go by, but also the train number and name (Kagayaki etc).

When I lived in Japan, I had absolutely no trouble directing visitors to my place, ("get on the Thunderbird in this direction..."), even though most busy routes have multiple trains (with different names/numbers) and different stopping patterns.

So your example isn't brilliantly convincing.

It may be simple if you understand the system but I refuse to believe that you knew what it all meant when you first set foot in Japan.

So your answer isn't brilliantly convincing.

No more patronising than lying to passengers because of a patronising view that they are stupid. Actually, far less patronising than that.

It's a ridiculous practice, particularly with modern PIS where there is plenty of scope to say "get that train instead" in some form - IF that train isn't late/cancelled/full and standing, which anything out of Paddington all too often is. Not to mention that off peak tickets are valid to Oxford in the evening peak only on trains from Paddington that claim not to be going to Oxford.

What is ridiculous is your obstinate refusal to accept the reasons why this practice was adopted in the Thames Valley area and to accept that it works, both for overseas visitors and the average passenger (ie not you, with your 16,590 posts on this forum), whose key interest is getting to the place they are going with the minimum of fuss and in the shortest time possible, rather than getting there eventually. Nothing whatever to do with people being stupid.