London Underground timetable booklets.

[swt class 450]

I found these Metropolitan Line timetable books yesterday (see attached photo) which took me about a month to find (almost every station said that they were out of stock). I finally found them in the leaflet rack at Moor Park station.

There are two books.
1. Metropolian Line to Amersham and Chesham
2. Metropolian Line to Watford

There doesnt seem to be one for Uxbridge trains though?

I thought that these are very useful and wondered why these are not available for all lines. I know that most of the London Underground is fairly frequent (a train every two or three minutes) but some sections are less frequent which is where these could be useful.

Bakerloo Line to Harrow & Wealdstone - Every 10 minutes.

Central Line between Hainault & Woodford - Every 20 minutes.

District Line to Ealing Broadway - Every 10 minutes.

District Line to High Street Kensington - A few trains a day on Mondays to Fridays.

District Line to Richmond - Every 10 minutes.

Metropolitan Line to Amersham - Every 30 minutes.

Metropolitan Line to Chesham - Every 30 minutes.

Metropolitan Line to Watford - Every 15 minutes

Northern Line to Mill Hill East - Every 15 minutes.

Picadilly Line to Rayners Lane - Every 10 minutes.

Picadilly Line to Uxbridge - Every 20 minutes.

I also find that proper timetables are very useful for working out the journey times and what time you will get to your destination. At the moment the only timetables other than these are the working timetables. Does anyone else think that more timetables should be produced for other London Underground lines?

 

[higthomas]

Given that TFL have apparently stopped producing timetables for Overground (See another thread which I can't link to at the moment for you info) Sadly I think its highly unlikely. I think it would be a good idea but TFL seem to think everyone should use their journey planner and if you don't like it tough.

 

[Dstock7080]

Each LU station has a unique poster displaying; first & last train times; the frequency of service during the day; journey times from that station.

 

[swt_passenger]

TfL consider that 4 tph is 'turn up and go', that might be why they think timetables are not required even on a number of the branches that you have mentioned.

As far as I can recall for many years now they have only ever printed 'public' timetable booklets for the Metropolitan line, and then only because it was run more like a mainline railway than any other line especially with the skip stopping patterns in the peaks..

 

[RJ]

I also find that proper timetables are very useful for working out the journey times and what time you will get to your destination. At the moment the only timetables other than these are the working timetables. Does anyone else think that more timetables should be produced for other London Underground lines?

Not really - service controller's instructions take precedence over the schedules, so trains don't always run as booked. The Met is the only line where it's really worthwhile publishing the times where it's low frequency all day.

 

[urbophile]

TfL consider that 4 tph is 'turn up and go', that might be why they think timetables are not required even on a number of the branches that you have mentioned.

4tph is the norm on Merseyrail but we still have timetable booklets. It's annoying to turn up one minute after the previous train has left and discover you have at least (more in case of delay) 14 minutes to wait. That's turn up and stamp your feet in frustration.

 

[Starmill]

That is because 4tph is considered the minimum for 'turn-up-and-go'. It's the point at which the change from schedules to headways starts. A real turn-up-and-go service where people would not need to check the timetable ever would be 6 or more per hour so average waiting time becomes very low.

 

[Busaholic]

That is because 4tph is considered the minimum for 'turn-up-and-go'. It's the point at which the change from schedules to headways starts. A real turn-up-and-go service where people would not need to check the timetable ever would be 6 or more per hour so average waiting time becomes very low.

In the bus world a frequent service is defined by the Traffic Commissioners as being 6 or more per hour.

 

[Deerfold]

In the bus world a frequent service is defined by the Traffic Commissioners as being 6 or more per hour.

Though TfL define high frequency as at least 5 an hour. Personally I regard high frequency as at least 8 an hour.

 

[Dstock7080]

Printed versions of these books are no longer available from 21 May.

 

[berneyarms]

Printed versions of these books are no longer available from 21 May.

They are still available as PDF files on the TfL website at the link below:
https://tfl.gov.uk/tube/timetable/metropolitan/

 

[Mutant Lemming]

They are still available as PDF files on the TfL website at the link below:
https://tfl.gov.uk/tube/timetable/metropolitan/

As are the working timetables for all lines -


https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/publications-and-reports/working-timetables

 

[MidnightFlyer]

I was reading a letter in the Evening Standard the other evening which implied TfL were also considering ceasing production of the bus map leaflets. Are TfL considering a considerable reduction in their printed literature? Obviously the London Overground and TfL Rail have already bitten the dust (if the latter ever existed at all!).

 

[Mutant Lemming]

I was reading a letter in the Evening Standard the other evening which implied TfL were also considering ceasing production of the bus map leaflets. Are TfL considering a considerable reduction in their printed literature? Obviously the London Overground and TfL Rail have already bitten the dust (if the latter ever existed at all!).

TfL are considering anything and everything that will lead to a reduction in expenditure.

 

[paddington]

TfL are considering anything and everything that will lead to a reduction in expenditure.

Maybe they should stop printing adverts like "We don't make a profit"

 

[swt class 450]

This is just absolutely ridiculous. First they got rid of the TFL Rail printed timetables and then they got rid of the London Overground printed timetables and now they have gotten rid of the Metropolitan Line printed timetables. Getting rid of the bus maps as well would be ridiculous. I'm glad they still publish the working timetables as i use these all the time when i travel on London Underground. TFL seem to just be making it as difficult as possible for people to use public transport. They really need to bring back all these printed timetables.

 

[Busaholic]

This is just absolutely ridiculous. First they got rid of the TFL Rail printed timetables and then they got rid of the London Overground printed timetables and now they have gotten rid of the Metropolitan Line printed timetables. Getting rid of the bus maps as well would be ridiculous. I'm glad they still publish the working timetables as i use these all the time when i travel on London Underground. TFL seem to just be making it as difficult as possible for people to use public transport. They really need to bring back all these printed timetables.

'Buses' magazine London column reports the five different bus maps have ceased production: it points out that cycle ride maps are still available for those who aren't going to be paying anything into the system!

 

[berneyarms]

'Buses' magazine London column reports the five different bus maps have ceased production: it points out that cycle ride maps are still available for those who aren't going to be paying anything into the system!

Surely they could cover their costs by putting a small cover charge on the printed bus maps?

At least with the rail timetables, most people have access to a computer and printer, and can print them out at home using both sides of the page.

The bus maps on the other hand are not printer-friendly as they are too big.

 

[Busaholic]

Surely they could cover their costs by putting a small cover charge on the printed bus maps?

At least with the rail timetables, most people have access to a computer and printer, and can print them out at home using both sides of the page.

The bus maps on the other hand are not printer-friendly as they are too big.

There has always been great resistance from on high to charging for bus and tube maps (and timetables for that matter) but, in the past, scrapping them altogether was never an option. I think you're right, that a charge should have been considered, even 20p say, but I wonder if the distribution of the maps has suffered from the Underground ticket office closures. Someone called Mike Harris used to produce an old-style bus map showing all bus routes in London as a semi-commercial venture (it cost £2 or £3, with some of that going to charity) but he stopped in 2014: perhaps he, or someone else, can be persuaded to re-start it. On a personal level, I've been collecting LT bus maps since around 1953 (although my mother later cleared out the first fifteen years) so I shall miss them.

 

[Deerfold]

Someone called Mike Harris used to produce an old-style bus map showing all bus routes in London as a semi-commercial venture (it cost £2 or £3, with some of that going to charity) but he stopped in 2014: perhaps he, or someone else, can be persuaded to re-start it. On a personal level, I've been collecting LT bus maps since around 1953 (although my mother later cleared out the first fifteen years) so I shall miss them.

Mike is keen to produce a new map, but is having some technical problems.

He's keeping track of updates until he can produce a new one.

http://www.busmap.co.uk/index.html

 

[U-Bahnfreund]

I wonder if TfL could be inspired by Berlin’s transport company. They offer the so-called ‘BVG Atlas’ (a bit costly at €12.90 ~£11.24 https://shop.bvg.de/index.php/product/404/show/0/0/0/0/buy) which includes everything one might want to know: an 1/20,000 map of Berlin and the surrounding area, which includes all streets, bus lines, bus stops, rail services and stations, landmarks etc. and an even more detailled 1/10,000 map of central Berlin, the centre of Spandau and Köpenick districts and of the city of Potsdam. These maps are also available online: http://fahrinfo.bvg.de/Fahrinfo/bin/query.bin/dn?&ujm=1. Then there are plenty of detailled maps of transport hubs (like Berlin Hauptbahnhof or Alexanderplatz), several schematic maps (Berlin S- and U-Bahn, regional trains in Berlin and Brandenburg, Potsdam buses and trams, Berlin trams etc.) and also detailled strip maps of every single rail or bus line. I have both the 2014 and 2016 editions and sadly, the frequencies of the lines are not displayed in the 2016 edition anymore, but that was also a really handy feature in the 2014 edition. In the online version, the headways are still included, see for example this diagramme of the 100 bus: http://www.bvg.de/images/content/linienverlaeufe/LinienverlaufBus100.jpeg

 

[Busaholic]

I wonder if TfL could be inspired by Berlin’s transport company. They offer the so-called ‘BVG Atlas’ (a bit costly at €12.90 ~£11.24 https://shop.bvg.de/index.php/product/404/show/0/0/0/0/buy) which includes everything one might want to know: an 1/20,000 map of Berlin and the surrounding area, which includes all streets, bus lines, bus stops, rail services and stations, landmarks etc. and an even more detailled 1/10,000 map of central Berlin, the centre of Spandau and Köpenick districts and of the city of Potsdam. These maps are also available online: http://fahrinfo.bvg.de/Fahrinfo/bin/query.bin/dn?&ujm=1. Then there are plenty of detailled maps of transport hubs (like Berlin Hauptbahnhof or Alexanderplatz), several schematic maps (Berlin S- and U-Bahn, regional trains in Berlin and Brandenburg, Potsdam buses and trams, Berlin trams etc.) and also detailled strip maps of every single rail or bus line. I have both the 2014 and 2016 editions and sadly, the frequencies of the lines are not displayed in the 2016 edition anymore, but that was also a really handy feature in the 2014 edition. In the online version, the headways are still included, see for example this diagramme of the 100 bus: http://www.bvg.de/images/content/linienverlaeufe/LinienverlaufBus100.jpeg

This sounds great, but I just can't imagine TfL embracing such a project or (perhaps more importantly) encouraging anyone else to engage with it. Even if I'm wrong, the lack of integration between the privatised railway, its masters and TfL would most likely render it incomplete.

 

[jopsuk]

This is just absolutely ridiculous. First they got rid of the TFL Rail printed timetables and then they got rid of the London Overground printed timetables and now they have gotten rid of the Metropolitan Line printed timetables. Getting rid of the bus maps as well would be ridiculous. I'm glad they still publish the working timetables as i use these all the time when i travel on London Underground. TFL seem to just be making it as difficult as possible for people to use public transport. They really need to bring back all these printed timetables.

Ridiculous. Unless you're going beyond Moor Park on the Met, there's no need for a timetable. Turn up at the station, in most cases get the next train. What difference would a paper timetable make to your journey planning?

 

[subria]

I admit to using the printed timetables for Overground back when I was using it a lot - but was using the PDF versions on my smartphone more often than not.

I'd assume the numbers of printed timetables that were being replaced unused every six or so months would be quite wasteful given the electronic alternative.

 

[Deerfold]

Ridiculous. Unless you're going beyond Moor Park on the Met, there's no need for a timetable. Turn up at the station, in most cases get the next train. What difference would a paper timetable make to your journey planning?

The Met printed timetables were only for trains which went beyond Moor Park.

 

[ANDREW_D_WEBB]

The bus maps on the other hand are not printer-friendly as they are too big.

Not a lot of point printing the bus maps of the website, they are out of date! Not only are the printed maps history, but the online ones are yet to show fairly major changes such as the recent changes along Finchley Road. The response I had from TfL about printed maps cited cost and low demand as the reason. Money had been found, however, to print 14 new maps for cyclists, which they will also post out to you.

 

[Clip]

Not a lot of point printing the bus maps of the website, they are out of date! Not only are the printed maps history, but the online ones are yet to show fairly major changes such as the recent changes along Finchley Road. The response I had from TfL about printed maps cited cost and low demand as the reason. Money had been found, however, to print 14 new maps for cyclists, which they will also post out to you.

Which probably comes out of the whole budget for cycling inside the TFL budget. LUL are pretty much trying to keep costs down and with more different channels available to plan your journey by tube/bus/rail then there really isnt a need for timetables being printed anymore. Youd be surprised at just how many are left over every year so its a waste of money and resources and pretty much cycle lanes and routes are not likely to chaneg year on year are they?

 

[Deerfold]

Which probably comes out of the whole budget for cycling inside the TFL budget. LUL are pretty much trying to keep costs down and with more different channels available to plan your journey by tube/bus/rail then there really isnt a need for timetables being printed anymore. Youd be surprised at just how many are left over every year so its a waste of money and resources and pretty much cycle lanes and routes are not likely to change year on year are they?

With the amount of funding going into cycling Superhighways at the moment I'd think they're more likely to change than at any time in the recent past.

 

[Clip]

With the amount of funding going into cycling Superhighways at the moment I'd think they're more likely to change than at any time in the recent past.

Those still follow normal cycle routes to get you from A to B though

 

[Busaholic]

Those still follow normal cycle routes to get you from A to B though

Cycling contributes nothing to TfL coffers, though, unlike most bus passengers.