Lothian Buses and ECB Discussion

[route101]

At least they're not more of the horrid single decker Volvo hybrid buses. I hate them so much. The east coast buses are really nice and comfy so good they're getting some of them.


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They still are better than any singles that first glasgow have got

 

[Bungle965]

At least they're not more of the horrid single decker Volvo hybrid buses. I hate them so much. The east coast buses are really nice and comfy so good they're getting some of them.


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What is up with them may I ask?
When I used them they did not seem that bad of buses.
Sam

 

[TheAlbanach_]

What is up with them may I ask?

When I used them they did not seem that bad of buses.

Sam

The seats are rock solids, feels like the have no suspense (not good for Edinburgh roads [emoji6]) and the stop start the engine does every 2 minutes is very annoying. The new East Coast buses however are very nice to travel on!


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[anti-pacer]

Maybe off topic but I was in Edinburgh yesterday and used Lothian Buses.

Here's my experience;

1) Frequency - OK, could be better given how busy the buses were. I know the Festival was on but I've used buses in Edinburgh before and they were always busy.

2) Vehicles - Cannot complain at all.

3) Speed - God, aren't Edinburgh's buses sloooooow? Every single stop and ages at most of them. Again, not just because of the Festival.

4) Seats - Comfortable enough, but much prefer that lovely blue tartan they used to have. I loved that design.

5) Fares - £4 day ticket including trams? Bargain. £1.60 single otherwise. Cheaper than most places.

6) Cleanliness - A fair bit of "ticket litter" but absolutely nothing else. Get rid of tickets (like London), problem solved.

 

[route101]

Maybe off topic but I was in Edinburgh yesterday and used Lothian Buses.

Here's my experience;

1) Frequency - OK, could be better given how busy the buses were. I know the Festival was on but I've used buses in Edinburgh before and they were always busy.

2) Vehicles - Cannot complain at all.

3) Speed - God, aren't Edinburgh's buses sloooooow? Every single stop and ages at most of them. Again, not just because of the Festival.

4) Seats - Comfortable enough, but much prefer that lovely blue tartan they used to have. I loved that design.

5) Fares - £4 day ticket including trams? Bargain. £1.60 single otherwise. Cheaper than most places.

6) Cleanliness - A fair bit of "ticket litter" but absolutely nothing else. Get rid of tickets (like London), problem solved.

Agree with your view but then im used to Glasgow buses .

Coming from Glasgow , edinburghs network is more dense serving more areas , theres not too many every 30 mins services .

Lothian buses are far cleaner than First Glasgows

Lothian are more innovative , very stagnant over in Glasgow

 

[dcsprior]

3) Speed - God, aren't Edinburgh's buses sloooooow? Every single stop and ages at most of them. Again, not just because of the Festival.

I grew up near Stirling. There, if a bus arrived at a stop that already had a bus at it, people would be able to board both buses at once. In Edinburgh, buses wait until they're first in the queue before they lot people board. I think this is a significant factor in the slowness, to an extent that I'd say it outweighs the time saved by the exact fare system.

It can also negatively impact other traffic. Today I was driving into Edinburgh and was held up for almost 5 minutes behind buses at just one bus stop (a traffic island and some other road features meant a safe overtake wasn't possible). If the buses had boarded 2 or 3 at a time, there would've been a lot less time queuing.

Given that changing this would seem to be a win-win, I presume there's a strong reason for not doing it. E.g. some advice that doing what bus companies do elsewhere could be a significant risk in the busier city traffic, and one that could be avoided (at the cost of slower journey times, more time spent idling and fewer journeys per day per bus and per driver).

Something else that could be done during the festival and other times that see a lot of tourists or infrequent bus users on the bus is having people at bus stops to guide passengers to actually get the correct bus and understand how payment works, rather than have them get on a bus and only then find out what they need to do, at the cost of the driver spending valuable time explaining this to them, or get the correct bus but attempt to get change of £10. This could be temporary staff or people who for the rest of year carry out other roles within Lothian Buses/TfE or the council.

 

[overthewater]

Anywhere outside Edinburgh can passengers start loading up at two bus stops, its just strange. With First bus you got to your destination faster.

Also people need to remember Edinburgh City council has forced in 20mph zone ALL over the city including main roads.

 

[dcsprior]

Also people need to remember Edinburgh City council has forced in 20mph zone ALL over the city including main roads.

Whilst this is true, enforcement is non-existent so it's rare to see vehicles, incl buses, keeping to20 when not constrained by traffic. Given this, so I'm not sure how much blame for the slowness can be attached to this stupid idea.

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[anti-pacer]

Anywhere outside Edinburgh can passengers start loading up at two bus stops, its just strange. With First bus you got to your destination faster.

Also people need to remember Edinburgh City council has forced in 20mph zone ALL over the city including main roads.

I certainly noticed this. I've never seen it anywhere else.

 

[oldman]

When Lothian announced their latest batch of changes, they said the 20 mph zones were impacting their night services, and some routes are being slightly truncated to compensate, but they have updated their announcement to remove the reference to the new limit. No doubt Councillor Numpty had a wee word in someone's ear.

Part of the problem of boarding is too many routes sharing stops, especially on the southside routes. But much more than boarding times it's the sheer lack of road space in Edinburgh. Because there was little demolition of older housing compared to a lot of cities, we have narrow streets lined with tenements with lots of increasingly wide car owners, and massive white vans 'loading' all over the place. There is ittle use of one way systems and restrictions on turning to speed flow and poor enforcement of bus lanes and parking restrictions.

For the council the priorities are cyclists, pedestrians, motorists, suburban shopkeepers, pavement cafes, event organisers and er, those big things we are very proud of but don't do anything to help.

As to LB, they could do a lot better on bus stop information, especially in the city centre.
There could be network maps posted on the shelters.

 

[radamfi]

Let's assume 20 mph zones slow down traffic and thus reduce accidents. (If they don't slow traffic down, then it is no worse than before).

Even if you don't care about people dying or getting injured, you might be interested in saving the time not having to close roads for long periods of time while investigating the accident and treating casualties at the scene.

 

[overthewater]

Let's assume 20 mph zones slow down traffic and thus reduce accidents. (If they don't slow traffic down, then it is no worse than before).

Even if you don't care about people dying or getting injured, you might be interested in saving the time not having to close roads for long periods of time while investigating the accident and treating casualties at the scene.

Your saying Glasgow Road/ St Johns Road should be 20mph and not 30mph, a road that has four lanes?

 

[radamfi]

Your saying Glasgow Road/ St Johns Road should be 20mph and not 30mph, a road that has four lanes?

The number of lanes is not relevant. What is more important is whether the area is residential, or if there is a lot of pedestrian activity (for example, because of shops, schools etc.) with lots of people crossing the road. If you are managing to drive at 20 mph in a big city rather than crawling at 10-15 mph then you are doing well.

(BTW, it should be "you're" not "your" in this context).

 

[oldman]

To be fair, some main roads remain 30 mph, including the Glasgow Road except through the Corstorphine shops. I see little sign of people driving at dangerous speeds in Edinburgh and such people will probably ignore any speed limit. The practical effect is to criminalise people who are driving along a quiet road in the evening at 25mph.

(BTW, IYDMMSS, IMO it's a bit rood correcting spelling here).

 

[route101]

I grew up near Stirling. There, if a bus arrived at a stop that already had a bus at it, people would be able to board both buses at once. In Edinburgh, buses wait until they're first in the queue before they lot people board. I think this is a significant factor in the slowness, to an extent that I'd say it outweighs the time saved by the exact fare system.

It can also negatively impact other traffic. Today I was driving into Edinburgh and was held up for almost 5 minutes behind buses at just one bus stop (a traffic island and some other road features meant a safe overtake wasn't possible). If the buses had boarded 2 or 3 at a time, there would've been a lot less time queuing.

Given that changing this would seem to be a win-win, I presume there's a strong reason for not doing it. E.g. some advice that doing what bus companies do elsewhere could be a significant risk in the busier city traffic, and one that could be avoided (at the cost of slower journey times, more time spent idling and fewer journeys per day per bus and per driver).

Something else that could be done during the festival and other times that see a lot of tourists or infrequent bus users on the bus is having people at bus stops to guide passengers to actually get the correct bus and understand how payment works, rather than have them get on a bus and only then find out what they need to do, at the cost of the driver spending valuable time explaining this to them, or get the correct bus but attempt to get change of £10. This could be temporary staff or people who for the rest of year carry out other roles within Lothian Buses/TfE or the council.

They started being stricter in Glasgow with buses loading one by one but if the bus stops big enough two buses will load . In edinburgh people will queue
politely at the bus stop , something ive rarely seen anywhere else .

 

[Blindtraveler]

I will say from the pov of a blind bus user that having buses stacking one behind the other is useful as they all stop at the actual stop and theres less chance of someone who can't see what the service is missing it.
Its always very hard work in areas where this is not the case to identify the correct route and for it not to bugger off without me.

In terms of speed limmits whilst this may well work round schools, leisure centres, care facilities and communitty venues its a daft idea in other parts of town and simply reenforces the idea that everyone at the councill lives in a padded insulated fully services cell with no comprehension of the real world.

 

[radamfi]

whilst this may well work round schools, leisure centres, care facilities and communitty venues

When you add shopping and residential areas to that list, that is a large proportion of most urban areas. 20 mph and 30 km/h limits are hardly unusual in western countries nowadays.

 

[anti-pacer]

I will say from the pov of a blind bus user that having buses stacking one behind the other is useful as they all stop at the actual stop and theres less chance of someone who can't see what the service is missing it.
Its always very hard work in areas where this is not the case to identify the correct route and for it not to bugger off without me.

In terms of speed limmits whilst this may well work round schools, leisure centres, care facilities and communitty venues its a daft idea in other parts of town and simply reenforces the idea that everyone at the councill lives in a padded insulated fully services cell with no comprehension of the real world.

Just out of interest, how do you know you're getting on the right bus? I'm guessing you're partially sighted rather than totally blind?

 

[dcsprior]

Let's assume 20 mph zones slow down traffic and thus reduce accidents. (If they don't slow traffic down, then it is no worse than before).

That assumes that slower traffic leads to fewer accidents. This is not necessarily the case: pedestrians may risk-compensate being less likely to walk to an island or crossing, car drivers' attention may be more likely to wander (or may be focussed more on their speedo), parents may be more likely to allow their children to play there, and so on. I would not be surprised if lower limits did reduce the number of accidents, but I also wouldn't be surprised if they didn't.

I have no problems with 20mph on any road which is unlikely to come in the middle of a journey across Edinburgh. However having that limit in places like Gorgie Road, St John's Road, Dalkeith Road (and basically most places that Lothian Buses go) is daft.

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[Blindtraveler]

Well said!

 

[oldman]

I have no problems with 20mph on any road which is unlikely to come in the middle of a journey across Edinburgh. However having that limit in places like Gorgie Road, St John's Road, Dalkeith Road (and basically most places that Lothian Buses go) is daft.

Most of Gorgie Road and Dalkeith Road are excluded (see map). During the day there are few places where you could go over 25 mph anyway so the effect will be minimal. It is basically a waste of time and money that could have been spent making things easier for public transport.

 

[Bungle965]

Lothian appear to have a Mercedes Citaro unsure if it is on loan or has been purchased. If it has been purchased outright it would seem to be going against the running theme of Volvo single deckers.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/km_edinburgh/36834805471/in/dateposted/ (not my photo)
Sam

 

[Blindtraveler]

It is a demo which I hope turns into an order but doubt it will.

 

[overthewater]

Lothian has lost part of the 39 to Border buses:

PM1121403/38 Registered
BORDERS BUSES LTD
Route: Eskbank, Tesco to Eskbank, Tesco via MCH, Newtongrange, Gorebridge
Service number: 339
Service type: Normal Stopping
Effective date: 16 Oct 2017

 

[DunsBus]

Lothian has lost part of the 39 to Border buses:

PM1121403/38 Registered
BORDERS BUSES LTD
Route: Eskbank, Tesco to Eskbank, Tesco via MCH, Newtongrange, Gorebridge
Service number: 339
Service type: Normal Stopping
Effective date: 16 Oct 2017

The Tesco to Gorebridge section of the 39 was subsidised and due for retender this year anyway, on expiry of the contract. Lothian will still operate the MCH-Dalkeith-Woodburn section of the 39 commercially.

 

[overthewater]

Some news:

https://eastcoastbuses.co.uk/changes-to-timetables-from-sunday-1-october-2017/

Changes to timetables from Sunday 1 October 2017
We will be making improvements to our buses and some changes to our timetables from 1 October.

These include:

* 104 – Part route journeys which start and finish in Wallyford will now extend to and from Musselburgh operating via Inveresk. There will also be a minor timetable changes to improve reliability.

* 106 – There will be an ADDITIONAL early morning journey from Musselburgh to Dunbar on Saturday mornings.

* 107 – A NEW earlier morning journey introduced on Saturday mornings from Dunbar to Edinburgh. Revised Sunday morning timetable.

* 124 – Our Sunday service will continue every 30 minutes over the winter.

* X5 – There will be a revised timetable with addition weekday journeys and a NEW Saturday daytime service.

* X24 – This service will have a NEW morning peak journey introduced between Prestonpans and Edinburgh.

Worse kept secret:

https://lothianbuses.co.uk/news/article/introducing-skylink-300

From 1 October 2017, we will be introducing double deck vehicles to our Skylink 200 service due to increasing customer demand.

The service, which launched in April, now carries over 10,000 customers per week.

The higher-capacity buses for this route will meet the Euro6 environmental standard and have the distinctive Skylink livery.

We will also be rebranding our Service 35 to become Skylink 300. Our investment of £6m, including a £1.5m contribution from the Scottish Green Bus Fund, will see 20 new hybrid buses introduced to the route. This fleet of new buses will have USB charging points, free WiFi, flight departure information and dedicated luggage areas.

Fares to Edinburgh Airport on Skylink 300 will be brought into line with those on our other airport services from this date. Timetable and fares for other parts of the route will remain the same. Single tickets will still be available for journeys between the Airport/Airport Hotel and Maybury - £2.50 adult, £1.50 child.

Richard Hall, Managing Director, said:

We’re delighted with how popular our Edinburgh Airport services are with customers. The introduction of these new and upgraded vehicles across both routes is the right time to simplify the range of options that we offer. Edinburgh Airport is Scotland’s busiest airport and one of the fastest growing airports in the UK, especially for international flights, and we’ll keep working with its management to provide great connections for everyone who uses it.

In the last ten years Edinburgh Airport has invested £219m in new facilities, including £25m on the landside terminal extension and security hall. Lothian aims to provide flyers from the city with convenient and cost-effective options of travel to and from the airport, reducing the pressure from increased traffic on surrounding roads.

Richard Townsend, Edinburgh Airport's Director of Retail and Property, said:

Making sure people can arrive at the airport and get into our stunning capital as quickly and smoothly as possible is key to a positive experience, and Lothian’s continued support in playing its part in that excellent local transport network is very much welcomed.

Their investment means they can now offer a fleet with the latest technology, including live departure information in a first for any airport service so customers can relax and enjoy the sights as they head back to Scotland’s busiest airport.

 

[overthewater]

Oh dear:

Eight injured after bus hits walkway at Edinburgh hospital

Eight people have been hurt after a double-decker bus crashed into an overhead walkway at an Edinburgh hospital. Emergency services were called to the Western General Hospital at 15:25.
Police said none of those hurt in the collision received serious or life-threatening injuries. A spokeswoman for the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service said eight casualties were taken away from the scene by a waiting ambulance. She added that firefighters were still at the site of the crash, working to make the scene safe. A spokesman for the Police Scotland said access to the hospital was unaffected.

A spokesman for East Coast Buses said: "Our first concern is with everyone involved in this incident and our thoughts are with those injured and their families.
"It is too early to know the full circumstances of what happened. We are cooperating fully with the police and will be carrying out our own investigation."

 

[BlueFox]

Me and Mrs Bluefox will be visiting Edinburgh next week, and may want to use the bus.

The Lothian buses website says day tickets cost £4, exact fare only. Which sounds fair enough.

But I've seen people say on other websites that they take coins only, which will be a bit of a pain to pay £8 for the two of us, as we don't usually carry that much change around with us.


Is it really coins only?


Normally for something like this I'd try to use the mobile ticket app, but it has a minimum payment of £10, per person. Not much use for visitors who might only be there for a day.

 

[alexf380]

The drivers will probably accept a £5 in the fare box, as long as you have enough to make it up to £8 with coins. No change to be given if you've only got notes I'm afraid.

 

[BlueFox]

The drivers will probably accept a £5 in the fare box, as long as you have enough to make it up to £8 with coins. No change to be given if you've only got notes I'm afraid.

I was hoping to be able to use a £5 note and coins. I wouldn't be too upset at having to pay £10 if I didn't have the right money.

What concerns me is not being allowed on the bus if I don't have the right money in coins only, and the word 'probably' in your reply doesn't fill me with confidence. Is there a definitive answer, or is it up to individual drivers to accept what they want?