TPE Mark 5A coaching stock progress

[northwichcat]

And the people getting on before everyone has got off. Why is this a problem in the North? In the South people manage to be polite and wait.

Is that what is being got there at or is it standing passengers who don't want to move down the train? That seems to only be a problem on trains with double doors like 185s as obviously some people think standing in the doorway isn't getting in the way of passengers getting on and off if the doors are so wide.

 

[Greybeard33]

Is that what is being got there at or is it standing passengers who don't want to move down the train? That seems to only be a problem on trains with double doors like 185s as obviously some people think standing in the doorway isn't getting in the way of passengers getting on and off if the doors are so wide.

In a crowded end door carriage, people standing in the vestibules (or sitting on the floor/on their luggage) is equally a problem.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I don't think it's a north/south thing, but a regular/occasional user thing. Those who use the train or tube daily know the drill because they have the experience of using them in the peak. Occasional users don't, and as we know, normals are stupid.

I don't know, I've not had a grown adult duck and squeeze under my arm to board in the South, and I've had it on TPEs more than once.

Blocking the door rather than standing to the side is a Tube thing, though. More than once I've stood holding the doors telling people that unless they move I can't get off, then they can't get on. It's like a brick wall.

 

[YorkshireBear]

I don't know, I've not had a grown adult duck and squeeze under my arm to board in the South, and I've had it on TPEs more than once.

Blocking the door rather than standing to the side is a Tube thing, though. More than once I've stood holding the doors telling people that unless they move I can't get off, then they can't get on. It's like a brick wall.

I find being 19 stone make me a very effective brick wall!

TPE is the worst for it, but i think TPE has many many non regular travellers, who then lull the regular travellers into thinking its alright and then suddenly it becomes the norm.

 

[fowler9]

I don't know, I've not had a grown adult duck and squeeze under my arm to board in the South, and I've had it on TPEs more than once.

Blocking the door rather than standing to the side is a Tube thing, though. More than once I've stood holding the doors telling people that unless they move I can't get off, then they can't get on. It's like a brick wall.

So you've not had that kind of thing in the south, apart from on the Tube which is most definitely in the south. I would rethink your theory.

 

[Bletchleyite]

So you've not had that kind of thing in the south, apart from on the Tube which is most definitely in the south. I would rethink your theory.

No, they're different things.

People standing crowded around the doors on the outside and not letting you off until you point out that if they don't move they won't be getting on occurs across the UK.

The one that really shocked me that I have ONLY seen in the North (Northern and TPE on numerous occasions, and I don't use either very often) is people pushing past to board rather than waiting for people to alight first. On more than one occasion this has been to the extent of grown adults actually pushing under my arm (I'm quite tall) when I have been holding the top of the handrail while alighting, which really shocked me as it is *incredibly* rude.

I do wonder if it is because the Northern view on personal space is perhaps less strong than the Southern one, as I have NEVER had that happen down South, not even at Bank in the rush hour which is about as bad as overcrowding gets in the UK.

 

[CosherB]

Any chance of a return to discussing Mk5s?

 

[BR60062]

Having just read this topic with interest. I am curious to know if the Manchester Airport to Cleethorpes route will get these new carriages? Or is that diagram unaffected?

I don't mind because to be honest. I do enjoy the ride quality and the noise from the Class 185's when they power up. Although they are heavy for a railcar. I like them better than the Class 170's. But that aside and from the picture I have seen. The Mk5 sets do look splendid in the TPE livery.

As for the yellow fronts on modern trains. I have seen a few steam trains and some of the 1960's BR green/maroon etc with no TOPS yellow fronts which must of been the norm back then if my model trains are anything to go by. So I don't mind if these new trains have a yellow panel or not as its something new to film and photograph for me.

If they are to stray onto the Manchester Airport to Cleethorpes route in the future. I would love to ride one of those Mk5 trains in the future as I have been doing a lot of photography at Barnetby over the last two months.

 

[MCR247]

Cleethorpes will still be 185s

 

[BR60062]

Thanks for that . I will get another type of rover so that I can ride the Mk5's when they enter service as if the Irish CAF Mk4's are anything to go by. From my experience with CAF rolling stock. It is well made and the ride is exceptional compared to the usual DMU's as I am a big fan of loco-hauled stock.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Having just read this topic with interest. I am curious to know if the Manchester Airport to Cleethorpes route will get these new carriages? Or is that diagram unaffected?

I don't mind because to be honest. I do enjoy the ride quality and the noise from the Class 185's when they power up. Although they are heavy for a railcar. I like them better than the Class 170's. But that aside and from the picture I have seen. The Mk5 sets do look splendid in the TPE livery.

As for the yellow fronts on modern trains. I have seen a few steam trains and some of the 1960's BR green/maroon etc with no TOPS yellow fronts which must of been the norm back then if my model trains are anything to go by. So I don't mind if these new trains have a yellow panel or not as its something new to film and photograph for me.

If they are to stray onto the Manchester Airport to Cleethorpes route in the future. I would love to ride one of those Mk5 trains in the future as I have been doing a lot of photography at Barnetby over the last two months.

Lack of a yellow front was less of an issue for steam, mostly because you'll hear the kettle long before you need to get out of the way! Besides, track gangs were probably considered expendable by the powers that be in those days!

 

[YorkshireBear]

Lack of a yellow front was less of an issue for steam, mostly because you'll hear the kettle long before you need to get out of the way! Besides, track gangs were probably considered expendable by the powers that be in those days!

A steam engine coasting down hill can be silent in the right weather conditions. Trust me.

 

[Darandio]

A steam engine coasting down hill can be silent in the right weather conditions. Trust me.

Heavy dense fog during the night would often muffle the approaching sound as well, my dad recalled several occasions where the lookout didn't know one was there until it was nearly on top of them.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Heavy dense fog during the night would often muffle the approaching sound as well, my dad recalled several occasions where the lookout didn't know one was there until it was nearly on top of them.

Falling Snow and Heavy rain being two other particularly difficult conditions too. Topography can also mask them on very curvy valley lines with tunnels.

 

[northwichcat]

A steam engine coasting down hill can be silent in the right weather conditions. Trust me.

I recall seeing on a TV program there was once fog/smog in London that made it impossible for pedestrians to hear old Routemaster buses until they were just a second or two away.

 

[Bornin1980s]

Regarding the history of yellow ends, I understand steam locomotives were more visible because of the constant plume of smoke. In most other countries, the solution to the invisibility of modern trains from the start was bright headlights. In Britain, however, bright headlights were not allowed because of the fear that they could render the weak gaslit signals invisible to the driver. The solution was compulsory yellow warning panels, which remained after headlights were added.

Back on topic, I was surprised to read in another thread that TPE had an option on more EMUs, but not more carriages. I would've thought, given the uncertainty of electrification, that it would make more sense to order more hauled carriages. These could then be hauled by locomotives of both types, depending on the level of electrification (though the Class 88 would only be powerful enough for such services in electric mode). After all, we already have high-speed push-pull carriages on the ECML, and also in some other European countries. The only future proofing required on the carriages would be to get them approved for 125 mph operation, which I believe they will be.

That said, it now seems The surplus Class 185s, which still haven't found a home, could make up for the shortage of non-electric new stock.

 

[edwin_m]

Regarding the history of yellow ends, I understand steam locomotives were more visible because of the constant plume of smoke. In most other countries, the solution to the invisibility of modern trains from the start was bright headlights. In Britain, however, bright headlights were not allowed because of the fear that they could render the weak gaslit signals invisible to the driver. The solution was compulsory yellow warning panels, which remained after headlights were added.

Back on topic, I was surprised to read in another thread that TPE had an option on more EMUs, but not more carriages. I would've thought, given the uncertainty of electrification, that it would make more sense to order more hauled carriages. These could then be hauled by locomotives of both types, depending on the level of electrification (though the Class 88 would only be powerful enough for such services in electric mode). After all, we already have high-speed push-pull carriages on the ECML, and also in some other European countries. The only future proofing required on the carriages would be to get them approved for 125 mph operation, which I believe they will be.

That said, it now seems The surplus Class 185s, which still haven't found a home, could make up for the shortage of non-electric new stock.

As I understand it the LHCS is essentially a stopgap because nobody could deliver more bi-modes in the timescales needed for the franchise commitments. If Manchester-York electrification is completed then the franchise can order EMUs to replace the 185s on north TP and either swap the LHCS over to 88s or replace them with more cheaper and faster EMUs. There is no scenario they can see where they need more diesel haulage than they have already committed to.

 

[coppercapped]

I recall seeing on a TV program there was once fog/smog in London that made it impossible for pedestrians to hear old Routemaster buses until they were just a second or two away.

The last great smog in London was in December 1962 when I was at Uni there. It lasted a about week due to a temperature inversion. It was sulphurous, oily, evil-smelling and disorientating.

The Routemasters were new at the time! The buses were RTs and RTLs and similar - it wasn't so much you couldn't hear them - you couldn't see them. And the drivers had great difficulty in not only seeing the kerb, wide road junctions were a hazard in that it was sometimes difficult to find your side of the road again and bus stops were practically invisible. (There were very few shelters then which could have been more easily identified, the only sign was an enamelled notice on a concrete pole). If I remember rightly they stopped running for a day or so.

And people today go on about particulates! They have no idea what pollution really is like. Wimps!

 

[coppercapped]

Regarding the history of yellow ends, I understand steam locomotives were more visible because of the constant plume of smoke. In most other countries, the solution to the invisibility of modern trains from the start was bright headlights. In Britain, however, bright headlights were not allowed because of the fear that they could render the weak gaslit signals invisible to the driver. The solution was compulsory yellow warning panels, which remained after headlights were added.

Keeping off-topic(!), the reason steam locomotives in the UK never had yellow fronts was that there was no perceived need for something like that. Under most circumstances a steam locomotive was visible because of, as you say, the smoke and steam, when working they were noisy and people were expected to know to keep out of the way. And anyway Health and Safety concerns as known today were less important.

The only circumstance when steam engines were almost silent was when running with closed regulator and the observer was directly in front.

Other countries had headlights because in many cases the railway was not fenced - as people could wander across the track and to alert wildlife a warning was needed at night. It's not that bright headlights were not allowed in the UK, until the Bulleid Pacifics, and indeed afterwards, electric light was unknown - locomotives' lights were oil as were most semaphore signal lamps. The early diesels continued this tradition with low wattage marker lights because this is how it always had been done, later the headcode boxes were introduced and at about this point, because of the greater speed, and therefore shorter warning times for people working on the track, the yellow front was introduced. This was, as I recall, the early 1960s but it still didn't help the situation at night. Headlights didn't make an appearance until a few years later.

 

[RichmondCommu]

I don't think it's a north/south thing, but a regular/occasional user thing. Those who use the train or tube daily know the drill because they have the experience of using them in the peak. Occasional users don't, and as we know, normals are stupid.

Even by the standards of this forum that is one hell of a sweeping statement.

 

[43096]

Even by the standards of this forum that is one hell of a sweeping statement.

But there is a high degree of truth in it.

 

[RichmondCommu]

But there is a high degree of truth in it.

They may not know the railway network as well as enthusiasts / railway workers but I don't think that makes them stupid. 'Normals' are the vast majority of rail travelers and most of them seem to know where to go and what to do. Enthusiasts who think they are stupid are in my opinion an arrogant bunch of small minded individuals and railway employees who think they are stupid need to remember why they are employed in the first place. In my opinion.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Even by the standards of this forum that is one hell of a sweeping statement.

But there is a high degree of truth in it.

In any case, I didn't interpret it as being 100% serious...

Chill, people!

 

[northwichcat]

The Routemasters were new at the time!

With almost new buses currently being used in London also being referred to as Routemasters I was clarifying it was the old type I was referring to.

 

[absolutelymilk]

Richard Clinnick is saying on Twitter that the first bodyshell has been painted and testing will start in the Autumn.

https://twitter.com/Clinnick1/status/892307491404558338

First CAF Mk 5A for TPE has been painted, and 1st rake is 'in build'. Testing in Velim this Autumn as planned.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

I'll just leave this here.....

 

[alexf380]

Ooooh, doesn't look too shabby :P

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Though that name suggests it'll spend a lot of time needing wheelset attention...

More seriously, I hope the blue/purple 'star' effect is on both ends of the loco rather than just one, otherwise it'll look a bit silly half the time...


Yes, I know that's not how you spell "tyre"...
And yes, I know they'll be push-pull so won't run round but they'll still need turning regularly to even out wheel wear among other things.

 

[BMIFlyer]

Oh look, NO yellow ends, as I mentioned from the start.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Oh look, NO yellow ends, as I mentioned from the start.

Is that one missing a bit of the nose? If you look at the picture in post #326 it shows another one with yellow ends to the right of the photo