Ticket checker filming me at Euston

[AnkleBoots]

A grumpy man checking tickets pre-boarding at Euston was wearing a camera with a sign warning people that they were being recorded.

Is this kind of filming allowed? Am I allowed to film him as he checks my ticket?

 

[najaB]

Is this kind of filming allowed? Am I allowed to film him as he checks my ticket?

Yes. Possibly.

 

[pemma]

Some police do wear body cameras.

Interestingly on the latest episode of BBC Click it showed a trial of facial recognition software being used at a German station with clear signage telling passengers to use the other door if they didn't want their face to be recorded by the system.

 

[Y Ddraig Coch]

A grumpy man checking tickets pre-boarding at Euston was wearing a camera with a sign warning people that they were being recorded.

Is this kind of filming allowed? Am I allowed to film him as he checks my ticket?

There are probably hundreds of cameras at any one time filming you at Euston or in London in general.

Why does the one on the revenue guy bother you more than the others?
It's just a good way to keep him safe from irate passengers who could cross a line when angry.

 

[AnkleBoots]

I might start filming my interactions with ticket office staff, guards, and RPIs; in case they give incorrect information.

I suspect they might not be very happy about it though.

 

[AnkleBoots]

There are probably hundreds of cameras at any one time filming you at Euston or in London in general.

Why does the one on the revenue guy bother you more than the others?
It's just a good way to keep him safe from irate passengers who could cross a line when angry.

I guess because it includes sound, is close up, suggests he is argumentative, and detracts from the cool and friendly Virgin brand.

 

[Sprinter153]

These body cameras (or at least the ones my company's RPIs use) will only film when required, i.e. when the user determines there is a need for evidence gathering purposes. You have little to fear unless you're abusive, antisocial or threatening.

 

[Darandio]

suggests he is argumentative

Please explain how.

 

[mikeg]

As a side question, does the op have the right to request a copy of the recording under the data protection act in the same manner as they would cc TV?
I noticed that tpe revenue protection have cameras top. This could be a good thing both from their perspective given the amount of abuse they are given by people who do not think they have to have a valid ticket and the passengers if the rpi misbehaves.

 

[najaB]

As a side question, does the op have the right to request a copy of the recording under the data protection act in the same manner as they would cc TV?

As far as I know, yes.

 

[AnkleBoots]

Please explain how.

- Traffic wardens have them
- The council litter warden fine-issuers have them
- Protestors use them to film police

Overall I associate them with conflict, and I want to believe that the railways are a friendly, welcoming place. I may be a snowflake though!

 

[Sprinter153]

Overall I associate them with conflict, and I want to believe that the railways are a friendly, welcoming place. I may be a snowflake though!

I understand why you feel like that, but if you were to shadow a member of customer-facing railway staff for a few days you'd see why some staff choose to have them.

You can have the best customer service in the world and still get assaulted because you asked someone to pay for their journey, or weren't able to accommodate their bike/pushchair/accordion/surfboard on the train.

 

[AnkleBoots]

You can have the best customer service in the world and still get assaulted because you asked someone to pay for their journey, or weren't able to accommodate their bike/pushchair/accordion/surfboard on the train.

Point taken. Saddening that some people resort to violence so easily.

 

[Hadders]

These cameras are allowed and you'd be surprised at how many of them are about these days.

I'm not GTR's biggest fan but their RPIs on a train from Stevenage to Kings Cross yesterday could have done with these cameras. I got onto the train and walked into an RPI attempting to Penalty Fare two chavs with 3 chav-kids in tow who had no tickets. They were returning from a few days away and claim they'd paid over £200 for their tickets but had lost them.

Chavs refused to pay or give their details. They offered to buy a ticket but not pay the PF. A tirade of 4 letter words and abuse was directed at the RPI for the rest of the journey. Eventually the RPI managed to get a name and address. The attempts to call BTP for assistance were unsuccesful as the phone signal kept dropping out.

All this in front of a fully wedged carriage. In fact these days there is more chance of getting a seat between Stevenage and Kings Cross on a weekday morning in the high peak than on a Sunday mid-morning!

 

[LowLevel]

- Traffic wardens have them
- The council litter warden fine-issuers have them
- Protestors use them to film police

Overall I associate them with conflict, and I want to believe that the railways are a friendly, welcoming place. I may be a snowflake though!

Being a ticket inspector is very much a job involving conflict. You won't find many guards or revenue staff who haven't been either physically or verbally assaulted at some point in their careers to one degree or another. Welcome to the real world. The railway is generally quite a friendly place but it can turn on you at any minute.

He's not filming you unless he tells you he is or you give him reason to. They don't have that long a life on them.

 

[6Gman]

I might start filming my interactions with ticket office staff, guards, and RPIs; in case they give incorrect information.

I suspect they might not be very happy about it though.

I suspect the vast majority of them might think "got a weirdo here" ...

 

[87electric]

I suspect the vast majority of them might think "got a weirdo here" ...

Dashcams in vehicles are used as evidence, cyclists (ala Jeremy Vine-who proved his point in court) wear them ........ this is what the world is coming to now. Protection of the self. That is not being a weirdo.

Not so long back there was the drunken businessman in first class who racially abused a woman and her son (on a Virgin train i think). That was recorded on a phone and used as evidence in court.
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/mum-subjected-racist-abuse-train-10631001

 

[Agent_c]

Its a public space, there's no expectation of privacy.

 

[pemma]

Dashcams in vehicles are used as evidence, cyclists (ala Jeremy Vine-who proved his point in court) wear them ........ this is what the world is coming to now. Protection of the self. That is not being a weirdo.

There's also recently been the case of a dashboard cam on a bus recording an offence committed by a jogger on the pavement. However, I don't think the police have managed to catch him yet.

I think some things caught by cameras get too much media coverage. For example, the woman who put a cat in a wheelie bin. Apparently that's worthy of a person's face being put all over the media and the internet but a compliant about dog owners not keeping their dogs on leads causing injury and death to rabbits in a local park gets viewed as the compliant not liking dogs and isn't taken seriously.

 

[shredder1]

I wear a bodycam when buying rail tickets in case they cock them up

 

[Puffing Devil]

The bodycam issue is a grey area. Fixed CCTV is very much covered and licensed.

Portable cameras are a different story and much depends on when they are used and how the footage is viewed and by whom.

 

[RPI]

GWR have had body cameras since 2015, we have them on filming all the time when checking tickets. Only RPI'S currently have them though

 

[Tim R-T-C]

The problem I see is that in a few years time, video evidence will become so familiar and commonplace that any case where there is not video evidence and that just relies on verbal testimony, will become jeopardised.

If a camera fails to record an assault for example, the defendant might claim that the victim just deleted the footage because nothing happened.

 

[najaB]

The problem I see is that in a few years time, video evidence will become so familiar and commonplace that any case where there is not video evidence and that just relies on verbal testimony, will become jeopardised.

If a camera fails to record an assault for example, the defendant might claim that the victim just deleted the footage because nothing happened.

"Absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence."

 

[Clip]

The problem I see is that in a few years time, video evidence will become so familiar and commonplace that any case where there is not video evidence and that just relies on verbal testimony, will become jeopardised.

If a camera fails to record an assault for example, the defendant might claim that the victim just deleted the footage because nothing happened.

you know its possible to check for any deleted footage don't you?

 

[takno]

The problem I see is that in a few years time, video evidence will become so familiar and commonplace that any case where there is not video evidence and that just relies on verbal testimony, will become jeopardised.

If a camera fails to record an assault for example, the defendant might claim that the victim just deleted the footage because nothing happened.

The speed of developments in faking video right now are impressive. It might be that video evidence becomes irretrievably tainted itself before it has chance to taint other forms of evidence

 

[jon0844]

"Absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence."

Yes but society is now 'pics or it didn't happen' and if someone is found guilty when there wasn't footage, it could appear to many as an injustice. Over time the legal system may become more influenced by this.

 

[Antman]

A grumpy man checking tickets pre-boarding at Euston was wearing a camera with a sign warning people that they were being recorded.

Is this kind of filming allowed? Am I allowed to film him as he checks my ticket?

A Southeastern revenue man told me sometime ago they were getting body cameras, might have them now I don't know? You can film them if you want, if the man in question was grumpy you probably should have done

 

[Shrimper]

The speed of developments in faking video right now are impressive. It might be that video evidence becomes irretrievably tainted itself before it has chance to taint other forms of evidence

As far as evidential body cameras and CCTV go, I'd expect there to be only limited access to the storage and downloading capabilities and a rigorous chain of evidence process to ensure any footage is authentic.

 

[najaB]

As far as evidential body cameras and CCTV go, I'd expect there to be only limited access to the storage and downloading capabilities and a rigorous chain of evidence process to ensure any footage is authentic.

I believe most of them use cryptographic techniques to make it extremely difficult (government-level resources required) to tamper with or fake.