Texas church shooting leaves many dead

[najaB]

Just saw this on the BBC News website:

More than 20 people have been killed after a gunman opened fire at a church during Sunday services, police say.

The attack happened at the First Baptist Church in Sutherland Springs, a small town in Wilson County, Texas.

The gunman, who is reported to have been killed in the aftermath, entered the church and opened fire at around 11:30 local time (17:30 GMT).

Wilson County Commissioner Albert Gamez Jr the gunman fled the scene in a vehicle before being killed.

"You never expect something like this. My heart is broken," Mr Gamez Jr said.

Earlier estimates put the death toll as high as 27. Mr Gamez Jr told CNN he was told by an emergency medical technician at least 27 died and 24 others were wounded.

About 50 people usually attend the service, locals said. The BBC's James Cook reported that children were among those killed.

 

[DarloRich]

Time to talk about gun control yet........................................................

 

[najaB]

Time to talk about gun control yet.

No, it's not an appropriate time when we are dealing with the immediate aftermath of a tragedy like this. Our focus should be on the victims rather than trying to politicise these events.

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This post was brought to you by the National Rifle Association.

 

[cactustwirly]

I'm very shocked, because this sort of thing rarely happens in America!

It's sad that people, including children, have to die because of a stupid right

 

[najaB]

I'm very shocked, because this sort of thing rarely happens in America!

Indeed, but what are you supposed to do about it?
‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens

SUTHERLAND SPRINGS, TX—In the hours following a violent rampage in Texas in which a lone attacker killed 27 individuals and seriously injured several others, citizens living in the only country where this kind of mass killing routinely occurs reportedly concluded Sunday that there was no way to prevent the massacre from taking place.

“This was a terrible tragedy, but sometimes these things just happen and there’s nothing anyone can do to stop them,” said Kansas resident Britt Mulvanos, echoing sentiments expressed by tens of millions of individuals who reside in a nation where over half of the world’s deadliest mass shootings have occurred in the past 50 years and whose citizens are 20 times more likely to die of gun violence than those of other developed nations.

“It’s a shame, but what can we do? There really wasn’t anything that was going to keep this individual from snapping and killing a lot of people if that’s what they really wanted.”

 

[Antman]

I don't mean to sound flippant about it but it's hardly shocking news is it?

 

[Harbornite]

I don't mean to sound flippant about it but it's hardly shocking news is it?

Maybe not, but it's still newsworthy whether you like it or not.

Now confirmed that at least 26 people have been killed, the youngest being 5 years old.

 

[Strathclyder]

I don't mean to sound flippant about it but it's hardly shocking news is it?

I get where you're coming from, but personally, the death tolls from these events will always shock me; that's just the way I'm wired.

What isn't shocking is that we already know from past events that nothing will change as a result of this tragedy. All that will happen is that condolences will be expressed by the people with the power to change the damned laws (that is, if they & their political careers weren't bought & paid for by the N.R.A, that is), calls for real changes to gun laws will fall on deaf ears (mainly 'cause not only do said careers matter more than the well-being & safety of their fellow Americans, but also their 2nd Amendment rights being violated matter more. Of course they bloody well matter more than their fellow countryman's well-being; how stupid of me to forget that) and the whole sorry situation becomes background noise until the next one thrusts it back directly under our collective gaze; wash, rinse & repeat ad-nauseam.

Tragic, totally avoidable and immensely frustrating.

 

[AlterEgo]

BBC reports that a local citizen picked up his own rifle and began shooting at the suspect, causing him to flee.

Watch all the idiots who reckon arming everyone makes you safer dine out on that for ages.

 

[TheEdge]

Nothing more to add...

 

[DarloRich]

This quote, via BBC, sums up the problem:

President Donald Trump, on a tour of Asia, said the gunman was "a very deranged individual" and denied that guns were to blame for the shooting. "We have a lot of mental health problems in our country, but this isn't a guns situation," he said.

Clueless. It seems that stupid, moronic, idiotic, simpleton Americans will do nothing to stop these situations.

BBC reports that a local citizen picked up his own rifle and began shooting at the suspect, causing him to flee.

Watch all the idiots who reckon arming everyone makes you safer dine out on that for ages.

The bloody yanks will be wibbling themselves crazy over that.

 

[najaB]

This quote, via BBC, sums up the problem:

President Donald Trump, on a tour of Asia, said the gunman was "a very deranged individual" and denied that guns were to blame for the shooting. "We have a lot of mental health problems in our country, but this isn't a guns situation," he said

But, but....

Donald Trump signs bill allowing mentally ill people to buy guns

President Donald Trump has signed a resolution blocking an Obama-era rule that would have prevented an estimated 75,000 people with mental disorders from buying guns.

The rule was part of former President Barack Obama's push to strengthen the federal background check system in the wake of the 2012 Newtown, Connecticut shooting.

 

[AlterEgo]

You could not make this s*** up.

 

[DarloRich]

You could not make this s*** up.

The governor of Texas recently signed into law changes that reduced the cost of gun licenses. He made jokes about shooting reporters at the same time.

https://www.texastribune.org/2017/0...ott-signs-measure-reduce-handgun-license-fee/

Gov. Greg Abbott on Friday visited a shooting range to sign a bill into law that significantly reduces the cost to get a license to carry a handgun, making Texas one of the states with the lowest fee in the nation..........
Following the bill signing, Abbott tested out a few guns at an upstairs shooting range. "I'm gonna carry this around in case I see any reporters," Abbott joked while holding his bullet-riddled target sheet.

They are mental. Completely and utterly bonkers. Nothing will ever change.

 

[TheEdge]

Sadly we've had schools, concerts, churches, universities, shopping centres and who knows what else shot up. They still wont budge, its pointless hoping anything will change anymore. We'll just watch one from the civilised world with our gun control and universal healthcare as they shoot each other.

 

[jon0844]

I'm very shocked, because this sort of thing rarely happens in America!

Indeed!

 

[Bromley boy]

But, but....

Donald Trump signs bill allowing mentally ill people to buy guns

Interesting and rather lazy definition of "mental disorder” in that article, and apparently in the legislation that was repealed. That's certainly not an appropriate description for something like Asperger's syndrome and risks unfairly stigmatising autistic spectrum disorders, in my view.

The chap mentioned in the article had Aspergers and shot up a school, but it's somewhat disingenuous to imply a link between the two. I'm sure I have read previously that people with AS are actually less likely than the general population to commit crime. On that basis, assuming that the general population is allowed to buy guns, I find myself agreeing that people with Asperger's shouldn't be prevented from doing so.*

*None of this detracts from the broader point that it is, of course, completely ridiculous that people are able to buy guns in the first place.

 

[najaB]

...I find myself agreeing that people with Asperger's shouldn't be prevented from doing so.

Don't follow the Woman in Red. They want you to focus on Asperger's and not the fact that people with severe mental illnesses are able to buy assault weapons.

 

[Bromley boy]

Don't follow the Woman in Red. They want you to focus on Asperger's and not the fact that people with severe mental illnesses are able to buy assault weapons.

I'm sure that's true - the NRA aren't exactly known for their progressive views on mental illness - it's just a convenient vehicle on this occasion. That organisation has blood on its hands with all its "guns don't kill people, people kill people" type guff.

It's a shame the relevant law wasn't drafted better in the first place to make it less vulnerable to this kind of challenge.

 

[Up_Tilt_390]

If anyone wants to ever poke at the Second Amendment, just remember that it's exact words include the term 'well regulated militia'. The ability for anyone to go out and purchase a semi-automatic firearm isn't exactly well-regulated is it?

My only problem is that the people blaming the guns and gun laws are often the same people who insist that every Islamic-inspired terror attack has nothing to do with Islam. I personally think there needs to be a serious cultural change in the US, because I don't think any amount of gun regulations will stop such madness at this point in time.

 

[najaB]

My only problem is that the people blaming the guns and gun laws are often the same people who insist that every Islamic-inspired terror attack has nothing to do with Islam.

Islamist, not Islamic.

 

[Up_Tilt_390]

Islamist, not Islamic.

EDIT: Did I use the wrong grammar?

 

[KN1]

EDIT: Did I use the wrong grammar?

No, you are entitled to use that term if you want to, don't be put off.

 

[najaB]

Is there a particular difference between the two or did I just use the wrong grammar?

Islamic refers to the religion, Islamist to the political philosophy. While many conflate the two they are quite different. Islam (the religion) is very similar to and compatible with modern Western civilisation. Islamists believe that Western culture is an anathema and want to replace it with a (loosely) Islamic-based theocracy.

It's comparable to the difference between the uplifting CoE service on a Sunday morning and the White Supremacists who marched through Charlottesville with burning torches* in 'defence' of the Christian faith.

There is most definitely a place for Islam and people of the Islamic faith in our society, there is no room for Islamists.

*(Well, Tiki lanterns)

 

[Up_Tilt_390]

No, you are entitled to use that term if you want to, don't be put off.

I meant more between the differences of the terms Islamic and Islamist. I checked the definition of the latter before I edited and found the difference. I just wondered whether it mattered what word I used.

 

[Up_Tilt_390]

Islamic refers to the religion, Islamist to the political philosophy. While many conflate the two they are quite different. Islam (the religion) is very similar to and compatible with modern Western civilisation. Islamists believe that Western culture is an anathema and want to replace it with a (loosely) Islamic-based theocracy.

It's comparable to the difference between the uplifting CoE service on a Sunday morning and the White Supremacists who marched through Charlottesville with burning torches* in 'defence' of the Christian faith.

*(Well, Tiki lanterns)

Well it's quite a fierce debate in today's world, but I think I've already said enough about it on this particular thread. Perhaps the subject ought to come back next time there's an Islamist-inspired attack in a different thread to be discussed separately lest we go off topic from the Texas Church Shooting which ultimately is what this thread is about.

 

[DarloRich]

Well it's quite a fierce debate in today's world, but I think I've already said enough about it on this particular thread. Perhaps the subject ought to come back next time there's an Islamist-inspired attack in a different thread to be discussed separately lest we go off topic from the Texas Church Shooting which ultimately is what this thread is about.

perhaps do some research eh?

EDIT I agree. it has nothing to do with this thread.

 

[Up_Tilt_390]

perhaps do some research eh?

Maybe I'm not so foolish to give an opinion without any degree of research, eh?

 

[DarloRich]

Maybe I'm not so foolish to give an opinion without any degree of research, eh?

I meant more between the differences of the terms Islamic and Islamist. I checked the definition of the latter before I edited and found the difference. I just wondered whether it mattered what word I used.

Of course words matter. Hence the need for research. I am fairly certain my neighbours would be aghast to be considered Islamist. They are Islamic.

No, you are entitled to use that term if you want to, don't be put off.

Nothing wrong with using the term. Lets try and use it correctly and understand it eh?

 

[Bromley boy]

O

Islam (the religion) is very similar to and compatible with modern Western civilisation. Islamists believe that Western culture is an anathema and want to replace it with a (loosely) Islamic-based theocracy.

In fairness to Up_Tilt, his original statement “Islamic inspired terrorists acts” isn’t incorrect. Of course not all Muslims are islamists, but all islamists are most certainly Muslims, and their attacks are most certainly “inspired by Islam”.

As for the statement that Islam the religion is compatible with modern western civilisation, that’s a little too general to be accurate in my view.

Moderate Islam is, but if you value equality for women, gay rights, freedom of religion etc. then you’ll find the religion’s tenets are wholly incompatible with your world view.