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Government Seeking Ways to Reverse Some Beeching Cuts.

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HowardGWR

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It isn't just the shopping centre though. The Centre is even further away, and that is essentially the "cultural heart" of Bristol.
The railway does not cater for entertainment and theatre goers in Bristol but I agree it could more so do. I can walk in 10 mins from TM to Broad Quay on a very pedestrian-friendly route along Portwall and Queens Square*. TM's location is no longer a real impediment. The lack of a fast transit system is.
*At least, when the rebuilding around the previous ghastly roundabout is finished.
 
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AndrewE

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On a serious note, what are the lines the government want to reopen in the UK?
None. They have mentioned East-West and Portishead, which are happening anyway, and have suggested that local authorities (whose budgets have already been cut by 40% or something and have to worry about how they are going to fund care of the elderly) might develop schemes, or "bid" for funding. As the day goes on I get more and more angry with the duplicitous shower that pretend to govern while they shut down anything they can get away with, or transfer responsibility to another body or even a charity, cut its money and then pretend the closures are nothing to do with the government...
 

brad465

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The railway does not cater for entertainment and theatre goers in Bristol but I agree it could more so do. I can walk in 10 mins from TM to Broad Quay on a very pedestrian-friendly route along Portwall and Queens Square*. TM's location is no longer a real impediment. The lack of a fast transit system is.
*At least, when the rebuilding around the previous ghastly roundabout is finished.

I agree with this and everything about TM's location relative to the city centre being an issue; it wouldn't surprise me if Clifton Down is closer to the centre, on the basis when I lived in Bath and cycled through Bristol I passed by Clifton Down to enter the centre and left passing TM on exit.

Bristol was the European Green Capital for 2015, so must be very environmentally friendly as things stand, so there may not be room to improve much. However all the talk of improving public transport around the city suggests that transport systems are one of the green "weak spots".
 

341o2

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Surely the title is a misnomer because many lines closed before Beeching and afterwards
 

northwichcat

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On a serious note, what are the lines the government want to reopen in the UK?

Seriously - the ones which might affect marginal seats. There are a number of seats the Conservatives lost at the last election and there are also a number of seats where either Labour or the Lib Dems were breathing down the neck of the winning Conservative candidate.
 

brad465

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Seriously - the ones which might affect marginal seats. There are a number of seats the Conservatives lost at the last election and there are also a number of seats where either Labour or the Lib Dems were breathing down the neck of the winning Conservative candidate.

Without diving too much into one specific political debate, wouldn't they try to accelerate proposals to get the high speed service to Hastings to save the now marginal seat of Hastings and Rye (aka Amber Rudd's seat)?
 

AndrewE

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Surely the title is a misnomer because many lines closed before Beeching and afterwards
Good point, it's just that Beeching is a convenient short-hand for a line closed at some time in the past, but he's also a bogeyman (or windmill to tilt at) and a bit of credit might be gained by conning an inexpert or non-specialist public into believing that old wrongs are being righted.
 

2HAP

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BBC South East were banging on about reopening Lewes - Uckfield this morning. Apart from that, March - Spalding needs to be on the list.
 

LLivery

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This just feels like Grayling hot air. There are a few lines that could do with re-opening and a few which are freight only what could do with passenger services. The Coalville, Woodhead, Uckfield-Lewes spring to mind. Spend money in areas with declining economies. The other day I found out the MML Northamptonshire towns have some of the worst social mobility rates in the country. I still believe the Nene Valley and Rushden branch would be useful and provide a good boost to economic investment. But ultimately, the best place to spend most money is in the towns, cities and on current infrastructure. T&W Metro extensions, more tram lines, etc. would go a long way.
 

Sir Felix Pole

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The 'Plymouth Herald' is getting over-excitable about reopening the LSW Plymouth to Exeter line. 'Cruising over Dartmoor' is streching a bit, but Transport Minister Jesse Norman has gone rather further in backing reopening than Chris Grayling did today. One wonders if this as a DfT view, or Norman extemporising in an interview. Amusingly he went to Central station in Exeter this morning, whilst all the media and local politicians were waiting at St David's!

http://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/news/plymouth-news/plymouth-exeter-trains-could-run-851150

Plymouth to Exeter trains could run over Dartmoor for first time in 50 years
Transport chief Jesse Norman backs re-opening line between Okehampton and Tavistock
  • Trains from Exeter to Plymouth could bypass the picturesque Dawlish coastline and cruise over Dartmoor as part of long-term aspirations to overhaul the nation's rail network.

Transport minister Jesse Norman said during a visit to Exeter St Davids today that reopening the line between Devon's two cities via Okehampton and Tavistock is a 'very important potential idea' as demand for efficient travel grows.

But he said any proposals would not put the future of the picturesque Dawlish line under threat and would instead complement it.

"I think that's obviously a bone of particular local interest and it is something that the Secretary of State has taken a personal interest in," said Mr Norman.

"We think it's a very important potential idea and we want to see more evidence though the consultation process.


rail-linkPNG.png

How the train line could look if services were able to run again via Tavistock and Okehampton
"It would obviously have the strategic advantage of removing the reliance on the Dawlish line and therefore the natural elements that we have at the moment.

"There is a lot of demand so we don't see why it would be prejudicial to Dawlish at all - quite the opposite - in many ways it will allow more connectivity and more passengers to flow.

"We hope that the service will continue to improve and grow over time.

"At the moment rail has been a huge success. Enormous numbers of people are using it and that's putting huge constrains on the system.
 

yorksrob

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That is the media hook. The other changes are of much more importance than this idea.

I'm not sure. Everything in railway management seems to consist of varying degrees of nationalisation/privatisation/regionalisation/sectorisation. Doubtless there will still be an ECML whether under joint management or not. A coherent plan for reopening's to towns off the network would provide a real change, providing some funding is put up for it at some stage.
 

snowball

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This thread shows that the announcement has already served its purpose by distracting attention from DfT's trick to rescue the ECML franchise.
 

Moonshot

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I'm not sure. Everything in railway management seems to consist of varying degrees of nationalisation/privatisation/regionalisation/sectorisation. Doubtless there will still be an ECML whether under joint management or not. A coherent plan for reopening's to towns off the network would provide a real change, providing some funding is put up for it at some stage.

Must admit that caught my eye....looks like a privatisation of Network Rail in a piece by piece fashion
 

yorksrob

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Must admit that caught my eye....looks like a privatisation of Network Rail in a piece by piece fashion

There is that. Or the re-establishment of vertical integration.

Others have opined how reopening's could be prioritised when we can't wire branches such as Windermere. A fair point perhaps, but I think that there's an element of truth in the idea that changes in traction aren't going to change journey opportunities to the same extent as expanding the network.
 

Moonshot

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There is that. Or the re-establishment of vertical integration.

Others have opined how reopening's could be prioritised when we can't wire branches such as Windermere. A fair point perhaps, but I think that there's an element of truth in the idea that changes in traction aren't going to change journey opportunities to the same extent as expanding the network.

Not sure myself , but in any event if a Private Sector operator was prepared to re build a disused line and take the financial risk and reward themselves, then best of luck to them.
 

yorksrob

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This thread shows that the announcement has already served its purpose by distracting attention from DfT's trick to rescue the ECML franchise.

Or will the Beeching reversal become the DfT's "£300 million more for the NHS" millstone.

I shall certainly not be forgetting about it if it disappears from sight.
 

yorksrob

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Not sure myself , but in any event if a Private Sector operator was prepared to re build a disused line and take the financial risk and reward themselves, then best of luck to them.

I'd be willing to let them have a go and see how it works. I believe this will be happening with EW rail anyway.
 

61653 HTAFC

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Only thing I can see with the woodhead route is by making it tram-train to Manchester via hadfield but the only problem is the tunnel itself.
That's a heck of a long way for a tram-type vehicle, tunnel or not! The diesel aspect wasn't the only reason Huddersfield was shelved as the destination of the tram-train pilot- it was also considered too long a distance for such a service. There may not be much chance of Woodhead coming back as heavy rail, but there's even less chance of it being a tramway!

In fact, if you're doing a tram line that way, forget the tunnel- just stick rails and OHLE on the A628! ;)
 

Llanigraham

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I agree with this and everything about TM's location relative to the city centre being an issue; it wouldn't surprise me if Clifton Down is closer to the centre, on the basis when I lived in Bath and cycled through Bristol I passed by Clifton Down to enter the centre and left passing TM on exit.

That was an interesting route into the city coming from Bath!!
And one I find a little improbable.
Clifton Down Station is totally the wrong side of town.
 

6Gman

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I am puzzled by the term "Reversing Beeching". Unless I am wrong, the establishment of previously lost connections, such as East West Rail, is more akin to building a new railway. The old alignments will not in many cases meet modern specifications such as speed requirements, environmental impact, junctions with existing lines, level crossings, etc.

Is there something warm and comforting about talking about re-openings or "reversing Beeching", as if people still think railways are all about apple cheeked children on lineside fences waving handkerchiefs at steam locomotive drivers? I think that, on the contrary, Beeching would approve of the strong business case of most proposed links. As a railway advocate I feel such terminology with implications of "turning the clock back" does the industry and its planners a disservice. I suggest we do better talking about "replacing" connections within the network.

I agree.

My reading of the announcement is:

1. Find a city which is doing well, but which has transport issues (Leeds, Manchester, Bristol, Edinburgh, Cambridge).
2. Can those issues be addressed by opening/reopening stations or railway lines?
3. If so, test the business cases.

But Beeching is an irrelevance.

Oh, and it's already been happening e.g. Windsor/ Ordsall Links; Border Railway; Cambridge North.
 

AndrewE

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That's a heck of a long way for a tram-type vehicle, tunnel or not! The diesel aspect wasn't the only reason Huddersfield was shelved as the destination of the tram-train pilot- it was also considered too long a distance for such a service. ;)
I reckon that half the journeys on the Manchester tram network are too long for tram-type vehicles anyway - and far too slow for conurbation communications.. Most of the outlying areas need a proper train service reinstating (including Altrincham not via Stockport.)
 
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6Gman

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As an Environmentalist I'd support the reopening of such lines as an alternative form of transport. However I do agree with much of what has been said relating to this not completely happening in reality, particularly in light of electrification stuff being cut back, which like many I was furious at the cutback there (again for environmental support reasons) <(

As an environmentalist I'd oppose the reopening of lines which would just carry fresh air around. If 12 people need to travel to a market town give them a bus, not a 153!
 

Busaholic

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The 'Plymouth Herald' is getting over-excitable about reopening the LSW Plymouth to Exeter line. 'Cruising over Dartmoor' is streching a bit, but Transport Minister Jesse Norman has gone rather further in backing reopening than Chris Grayling did today. One wonders if this as a DfT view, or Norman extemporising in an interview. Amusingly he went to Central station in Exeter this morning, whilst all the media and local politicians were waiting at St David's!

http://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/news/plymouth-news/plymouth-exeter-trains-could-run-851150
In other political news of recent times, the Conservative MP Johnny Mercer, who represents a marginal Plymouth seat, is threatening to resign his seat if the new Defence Secretary brings in the mooted cuts to the Royal Navy at Devonport, and is leading a backbench revolt against the (denied by the government) plans. It is also noticeable that Mercer has recently criticised fellow local Tories for campaigning to get the M5 extended from Exeter to Plymouth, which he sees as a fantasy, and is urging them instead to get behind the 'realisable' aim of better rail connections to Plymouth, so forgive me if I don't see this as an attempt to appease him!
 

Ediswan

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If lines were to re-open, is there capacity for additional trains direct to the popular destinations?

By way of a local example (albeit a highly unlikely one), if the Buntingford Branch Line returned, Liverpool Street would be the popular destination. The new trains would have to join the already busy (full?) Lea Valley line north of Broxbourne.

--
Alan
 

HowardGWR

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Exactly. This is a real scandal and has been lost amongst the rest of the unfunded bluster, which was no doubt the intention.

In fairness, most of the posts here have emphasised this trick. There is lots of 'previous' where governments are concerned in this respect.
 

sprinterguy

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Agreed. The Victorians looked at building a Macclesfield to Warrington line and decided against it. Warrington is a lot bigger than it was at that time so surely the BCR would be very different now (not that the Victorians would have used a BCR like us.)
Ooh, that'd be genuinely useful for me, especially if routed via the likes of Chelford and Knutsford, allowing connections into the existing NE-SW orientated routes. :D Having to travel via Stockport for such short straight line distances is a real drag.

I also agree that a Manchester Airport Western link would be quite beneficial.
 

SpacePhoenix

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How many of the lines proposed to re-open will be or could end up being "basket cases"?
 
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