From previous threads on here, I have seen that there seems to be a bit of hostility towards Reading commuters, with it having often been noted that the Reading commuters are often "more in the know" about likely platform departures from Paddington, alongside typically having less luggage compared to longer distance travellers. Would it not make sense for more GWR long distance services (e.g to Swansea / Cardiff / Penzance / Hereford), especially at peak times, to not call at Reading? I am certainly not suggesting that all peak time long distance trains should have Reading removed as a stop, but having seen very busy trains at Bristol Parkway and Bath Spa in the evening, I can only dread how busy they were having left Paddington.
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Reading commuters: should more long distance GWR trains skip this station?
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Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
My personal take is that Reading should be pick up/set down only, with a dedicated fast Paddington-Slough-(Maidenhead)-Reading fast 12-car EMU service carrying all "local" passengers. The problem with this is the lack of paths. It might be possible to add it using the HEx paths and EMUs if CrossRail kicks HEx into a cocked hat (which is by no means certain).
telstarbox
Established Member
According to Wikipedia, Reading also has significant inward commuting so the traffic isn't all one way.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Indeed it does, which is why I'd propose u/s rather than missing stops - but as I mentioned paths are the constraint to doing this.
The proposed timetable under full IEP operation (provisionally December 2019) has four trains an hour between London Paddington and Bristol Temple Meads, two of which will call at Bristol Parkway only.
Also one South Wales train an hour will skip Reading and be first stop Didcot Parkway (usually the Cardiff Central 'shorts').
Otherwise I would be very wary of cutting Reading stops as it is too important an interchange.
Also one South Wales train an hour will skip Reading and be first stop Didcot Parkway (usually the Cardiff Central 'shorts').
Otherwise I would be very wary of cutting Reading stops as it is too important an interchange.
coppercapped
Established Member
I agree with your last statement. To put the whole situation in perspective the footfall figures (entries and exits per year) from the ORR give some idea of the magnitudes involved, I've rounded the figures to the nearest million:
- Paddington 37 million
- Reading 17 million of which 3 million are season ticket holders, i.e., 6 million entries and exits
- Newbury 2 million
- Didcot 3 million
- Oxford 7 million
- Swindon 4 million
- Chippenham 2 million
- Bath Spa 6 million
- Bristol Temple Meads 11 million
- Bristol Parkway 3 million.
While there is a strong argument to run selected trains non-stop through Reading, the choice of trains will have to be made very carefully. The other possibility, often suggested, is to run some 'pick-up only' and 'set down only' trains. This is a non-starter as it will be impossible to enforce - the station has been recently rebuilt to permit free flows of people between all the platforms once they are through the gatelines. Any extra controls will simply generate pinch points in the flows. For example fast up trains use Platforms 10 and 11 - the two sides of an island platform. How does one steer people away from a 'set down only' arrival when it is known that all these trains go to Paddington?
At Paddington it is just as difficult - Platforms 2 and 3, for example, are reached through the same gateline. The train at Platform 2 is labeled as first stop Swindon, but leaves before the one in Platform 3 which is labeled as calling at Reading. Seasoned travellers know that the first train stops at Reading to 'pick-up only' - how does one stop them boarding as they have passed the gateline with a valid ticket? Come IET and the journey will take about 22 minutes - on-train checks are not going to catch many on the 'wrong' train and anyway they have valid tickets to Reading.
NorthernSpirit
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Personally I'm in favour of having the Reading services being split into a self contained shuttle that would offer four trains per hour, with two being a stopper and the other two being fast directs to Reading. This would speed up the other services that'd pass through Reading without stopping.
cactustwirly
Established Member
This happens already with the 4tph semi fasts on the off peak becoming, 2tph all stops and 2tph fast (Paddington - Maidenhead - Twyford - Reading)
Your idea is unworkable since there there is a significant flow of passengers from Reading westwards and vice versa, and definitely won't offer enough capacity for the Reading commuters.
cactustwirly
Established Member
I doubt it, you'll just catch up with the xx18 Didcot stopper until Maidenhead. Ie HEx paths won't neccessarily extend to Reading.
One would have to know the O/D data for 'other stations than Paddington' to Reading - and the Heathrow link figures would be handy too.
We don't know those data, but GWR does. IIRC, this policy of stopping more often at intermediate stations on the GWML began way back in Gerard Fiennes' time on BR WR and resulted in a big boost to overall patronage and frequency. Speed of the diesel hydraulics helped.
I didn't realise that some new timetable South Wales trains would not stop at Reading, in addition to the two Bristols per hour, so all that's left to consider are the two Cotswold lines and the Westbury line. Perhaps they should have one of theirs be non-stop.
One could make the u/s system work by making Pad seasons not valid on them. You would only get a few evaders that way. Most people do not want the ignominy of being caught, so you would not need separate barriers I would think.
We don't know those data, but GWR does. IIRC, this policy of stopping more often at intermediate stations on the GWML began way back in Gerard Fiennes' time on BR WR and resulted in a big boost to overall patronage and frequency. Speed of the diesel hydraulics helped.
I didn't realise that some new timetable South Wales trains would not stop at Reading, in addition to the two Bristols per hour, so all that's left to consider are the two Cotswold lines and the Westbury line. Perhaps they should have one of theirs be non-stop.
One could make the u/s system work by making Pad seasons not valid on them. You would only get a few evaders that way. Most people do not want the ignominy of being caught, so you would not need separate barriers I would think.
coppercapped
Established Member
Hmm...! Any form of ticket restriction would hard to police on this route. The barriers would not refuse entry or exit so the only possibility of checks is in the 22 to 25 minute journey which would be very difficult in a full train - and the problem is really only acute during the rush hours.
There is quite a significant commuting flow to Reading from Paddington, not just into Reading from the West.
backontrack
Established Member
- Newport 3 million
- Cardiff Central 13 million
- Bridgend 2 million
- Port Talbot Parkway 1 million
- Neath 1 million
- Swansea 2 million
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edwin_m
Veteran Member
Someone posted in a previous discussion (don't recall which forum) that in BR days there was a "u" at Reading which nevertheless had a lot of people alignting there. One day they decided to run it genuinely non-stop to its next schedule call at Taunton and provide a relief for passengers boarding at Reading. All passengers with Reading tickets were duly excessed to Taunton and back, and violations reduced significantly...
I presume a ticket to a "u" stop or from an "s" stop wouldn't be valid on the trains in question, so there's nothing to stop GWR doing a revenue block at Paddington or flooding the train with revenue staff to check everyone during the 25 minutes. There will still be trains into Paddington from Oxford, Didcot and Newbury and if Crossrail is indeed taking many of the stops east of Reading then these should only be a few minutes slower than the Bristol and Cardiff trains.
I presume a ticket to a "u" stop or from an "s" stop wouldn't be valid on the trains in question, so there's nothing to stop GWR doing a revenue block at Paddington or flooding the train with revenue staff to check everyone during the 25 minutes. There will still be trains into Paddington from Oxford, Didcot and Newbury and if Crossrail is indeed taking many of the stops east of Reading then these should only be a few minutes slower than the Bristol and Cardiff trains.
On the question of "pick up only", I recall a few years ago reading that FGW (as was) seeing a Friday evening Paddington to Penzance service very heavily booked, organised a second HST to run Reading to Exeter, and the Reading commuters on the Paddington to Penzance service were rather unamused when their train ran through and they ended up in Taunton, where, to add insult to injury, RPIs were abundant.
Does anyone read previous posts on this thread? Only joking, but we have had the same points made twice now! Still 'great minds' and all that. I don't see any reason why the u/s suggestion could not work. Occasional checks with a team and in any case, remember the main object is to please long distance pax, not annoy the very valued short distance customers.
Kite159
Veteran Member
Might help advertising the boarding of the more longer distance services early, so anybody travelling to say Plymouth can get themselves comfy before the Reading bunch descend on the next fast service
Andrewlong
Member
If the problem is overcrowding, make the trains reserved seat only and prevent those without reservations from getting on the train at Paddington. This should keep the long distance traveller happy returning to Bristol or Plymouth. You would have to cordon off areas on the platform and have extra staff to check tickets. Don't know how practical or legal it would be. Reading commuters would have to be given an alternative means of quickly getting to Reading from Paddington and not fobbed off on be told to travel on a semi-fast 387.
I don't pick a train in advance for my long distance travel, let alone reserve seats. I already pay a significant premium over advance fare holders for doing this, so I don't think keeping me off the train would keep me very happy at all.
Bishopstone
Established Member
If this tactic is attempted in 2018, I want plenty of notice to book a day off work, get the popcorn in and enjoy the Twitter-storm.
MG11
Member
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IMO, more of the long distance services should yes, but only a small handful. I am not of the opinion that long-distance trains should call at every station along the line, but Reading is a big city and it's important to remember that people may come to Reading from the West Country for things such as business meetings, university studies or even lesiure travel. Similarly, densly-populated Reading may also have people travelling from there to the West Country for holidays, or up to the Cotswolds and other areas of natural beauty.
I do think there should be some selected trains that pass through, offering people travelling from the far west a quicker journey in to London, and regular travellers will cotton on to it, but I still think Reading should maintain regularly connections with the South West.
I do think there should be some selected trains that pass through, offering people travelling from the far west a quicker journey in to London, and regular travellers will cotton on to it, but I still think Reading should maintain regularly connections with the South West.
Fortunately, the ONS has published commuter flow stats for Reading using 2011 Census data:
Follow this link and enter Reading as the local authority and Train as the travel mode:-
https://www.nomisweb.co.uk/census/2011/wu03uk/chart
Follow this link and enter Reading as the local authority and Train as the travel mode:-
https://www.nomisweb.co.uk/census/2011/wu03uk/chart
Or be transferring there for Guildford, Southampton etc. I frequently travel up from Swansea, and when I'm going to London I'd certainly love to be able to sit down on the way back before swindon, but when I'm changing at Reading I'd like to, you know, change at Reading.
221129
Established Member
It's happened in the last couple of years. 2016 I think it was. With Swindon though and not Taunton.
Do we really need to do this again?
This thread already reads like this one from the end of 2016. And probably several others lurking on the forum from other occasions.
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/reading-commuters-filling-long-distance-gwr-services.138710/
How about waiting until we know impact on Thames Valley commuting habits of the timetable and rolling stock changes last week, IETs taking over more services through the year so more seats per train, the big GWR timetable overhaul at the start of next year and Crossrail from the end of 2019.
And before anyone says no Reading commuters will use Crossrail, due to the journey time, bear in mind that the start of its services releases a fair few 387s from Thames Valley stoppers to lengthen Newbury and Didcot/Oxford semi-fasts - I'd expect there will be rather a lot of 12-car formations in use for the peaks as a result.
This thread already reads like this one from the end of 2016. And probably several others lurking on the forum from other occasions.
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/reading-commuters-filling-long-distance-gwr-services.138710/
How about waiting until we know impact on Thames Valley commuting habits of the timetable and rolling stock changes last week, IETs taking over more services through the year so more seats per train, the big GWR timetable overhaul at the start of next year and Crossrail from the end of 2019.
And before anyone says no Reading commuters will use Crossrail, due to the journey time, bear in mind that the start of its services releases a fair few 387s from Thames Valley stoppers to lengthen Newbury and Didcot/Oxford semi-fasts - I'd expect there will be rather a lot of 12-car formations in use for the peaks as a result.
route:oxford
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Of course they will. Particularly in the evening.
If I'm already on a CrossRail service from Liverpool Street, and I'm familiar with the timings (ie Cross Paddington transfer times) and able to check online status of services outbound from Paddington - then it's probably very likely that I will stay seated unless the margins are favourable.
In the mornings - maybe. It will probably depend on the weather and how stomach is in the morning.
route:oxford
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To be fair, there are probably at least 500-1000 regular Reading commuters who are wealthy enough to either pull the cord themselves without worry - or to pay someone to pull it for them.
I'm not suggesting this is a good thing, but something to be mindful of. I suspect that after the first week or so, there would be an unscheduled timetable recast.
I am a regular traveller on the line from Paddington to the West and one thing that I find quite interesting about Reading is that you gain almost as many customers as you lose at Reading; and in the evening peak often the train departs Reading busier than it arrived!
It happened in 2014 with the 19.15 which was pickup only on Fridays (since then a relief was added) and there were the predictable comments on Twitter: https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...kipping-the-pick-up-only-call-tonight.101966/.
If they could even identify the person, I doubt the BTP would be interested to even attend, let alone actually charge them with something. Those *with* money, and proper jobs, stand to be much more affected from enforcement action than those without!
Andrewlong
Member
Can't see this issue being easily resolved. There are some very condescending people out there who travel silly distances each day into London and because they pay far more than Reading commuters, it seems their needs are far more important.
I have previously suggested all seat reservations on the busiest trains to bring us into line with airline practices. Trouble is if you want absolute flexibility, this is not going to work.
I have previously suggested all seat reservations on the busiest trains to bring us into line with airline practices. Trouble is if you want absolute flexibility, this is not going to work.
Totally impractical. Where's the extra capacity going to come from in order to eliminate standing. What happens if a train is cancelled in the high peak? That's before you even look at flexibility.
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