Northern Unit Refurbishments

[brel york]

It was because a couple of pages ago, someone went to shareholders meeting and the head of refurbishments said that they were changing all of the 150 Ashbourne seats to Chapmans.

Link to the post: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/northern-unit-refurbishments.128846/page-58

Post #1740

The work involved in this is not simple , and I would imagine neither party’s want to pay , they currently argue over penny’s lol

 

[tom1649]

Is there really much point changing the seats now? They've managed for the last 30 odd years with Ashbournes, and they're unlikely to be in service for more than another 10 are they?

 

[47802]

The work involved in this is not simple , and I would imagine neither party’s want to pay , they currently argue over penny’s lol

Well there was an inaccuracy in that summary regarding engine size for the new DMU's so there could be others or things have changed again.

I think it makes sense to change the seats in the 158's since some will be working connect trains and have original seating, whether its worth changing them on the 150's I don't know, the chapman seating does at least look reasonably modern

 

[brel york]

They can’t agree on who pays for the t bolts if they need replacing

 

[507021]

I'm assuming 158757 is back in service, though haven't personally seen it, does that mean this is the second to last 3 car 158? And if so, will they be starting the 2 cars?

158757 isn't back yet, but yes, 158758 is the second to last 3-car 158 to be refreshed.

 

[superkev]

Anyone know what's happened to the two scotrail souped up 400hp 158's that came to neville hill lat week?
I was always puzzled why the differing engine versions where not given a different class numbers or suffixes to stop the current mix and match situation. At the moment timetables are just based on the 350hp version.
I'm sure routes like the s and c would love those 50 extra horses.
K

 

[NorthernSpirit]

I hate the things. Yes yes indeed, get rid of them from the South, Northern can take them. They seem to be fond of other TOCs leftovers!

Northern is the UK's largest heritage railway operator, but still the more units that are sent North the better - we don't have the luxuries of eight or twelve car units running in service as they do in the south, we're lucky with four. I do hope that one day Northern will have the 165's and 166's that can replace the almost knackered class 150's, as they'd be great for the Calder Valley, Penistone and Pontefract Lines.

Speaking of which wouldn't it be cheaper for Northern to reform all of the two car class 15x's into three car hybrids then order in some more (possibly three car) units to fill in the gaps which have opened with the potential idea that creating hybrids would magic up, the much needed, extra seats.

 

[IanXC]

Northern is the UK's largest heritage railway operator, but still the more units that are sent North the better - we don't have the luxuries of eight or twelve car units running in service as they do in the south, we're lucky with four. I do hope that one day Northern will have the 165's and 166's that can replace the almost knackered class 150's, as they'd be great for the Calder Valley, Penistone and Pontefract Lines.

Speaking of which wouldn't it be cheaper for Northern to reform all of the two car class 15x's into three car hybrids then order in some more (possibly three car) units to fill in the gaps which have opened with the potential idea that creating hybrids would magic up, the much needed, extra seats.

You're looking to pay for significant route clearance works for Turbos then? I think the reality is that the next Northern franchise will need to replace all the 150s and a good selection of other Sprinters. And if the electrification trajectory continues as we might currently anticipate then we're probably looking at self powered MUs.

Cheaper to have more trains? I'm not sure I follow? There are definitely routes that only need 2 cars, so why provide them with 3?

 

[Halish Railway]

158757 isn't back yet, but yes, 158758 is the second to last 3-car 158 to be refreshed.

158 758 is in desperate need of an overhaul; I went on it last week and the lighting of the central coach was broken (the off and on trick didn't work) and the engine of my coach sounded very dodgy with it constantly reving up and down when accelerating. Would be interesting to see what state it's in.

 

[47802]

Northern is the UK's largest heritage railway operator, but still the more units that are sent North the better - we don't have the luxuries of eight or twelve car units running in service as they do in the south, we're lucky with four. I do hope that one day Northern will have the 165's and 166's that can replace the almost knackered class 150's, as they'd be great for the Calder Valley, Penistone and Pontefract Lines.

Speaking of which wouldn't it be cheaper for Northern to reform all of the two car class 15x's into three car hybrids then order in some more (possibly three car) units to fill in the gaps which have opened with the potential idea that creating hybrids would magic up, the much needed, extra seats.

What are you on about by the time the next Northern Franchise is due the 165/166's will be fairly ancient as well, and the majority of Calder Valley Services should get new 195's next year, plus allegedly 170's as well.

Unless the next GWR franchise/franchises decides to replace them then the Turbo units are likely to be in the South West for the foreseeable future.

 

[507021]

What are you on about by the time the next Northern Franchise is due the 165/166's will be fairly ancient as well, and the majority of Calder Valley Services should get new 195's next year, plus allegedly 170's as well.

Unless the next GWR franchise/franchises decides to replace them then the Turbo units are likely to be in the South West for the foreseeable future.

I have to agree. The 165s and 166s are decent (in my view), but I very much doubt we'll ever see them in the North.

The next Northern franchise, in my opinion, will probably update its fleet with a mixture of new and "used" trains like the current franchise. I think an order of CAF diesel units is likely for the next franchise, but we shall have to wait and see what happens in several years' time.

 

[507021]

First update of 2018. Latest changes are underlined.

Units in red are in the Northern Rail livery or their former operator's livery.
Units in blue are in the Northern or Northern base livery.
Units in bold are refurbished.
Units with a ^ are out of service for repaint/refurbishment/PRM mods.
Units with a * have received PRM modifications.
Units with a $ are currently stored/out of service.
Units in italics have not arrived yet.

Class 150s
150101, 150102^, 150103, 150104, 150105, 150106, 150107, 150108, 150109, 150110, 150111, 150112, 150113, 150114, 150115, 150116, 150117, 150118, 150119, 150120, 150121, 150122, 150123, 150124*$, 150125, 150126*, 150127, 150128, 150129, 150130, 150131, 150132, 150133, 150134*, 150135, 150136*, 150137*, 150138, 150139, 150140*, 150141, 150142*, 150143, 150144^, 150145, 150146, 150147, 150148, 150149*, 150150.

150201, 150203*, 150204*, 150205*, 150206*, 150207, 150210, 150211*^, 150214, 150215, 150218, 150220*, 150222*, 150223*, 150224, 150225, 150226, 150228, 150268, 150269, 150270, 150271, 150272, 150273, 150274^, 150275*, 150276*, 150277.

Class 155s
155341, 155342, 155343, 155344, 155345*, 155346*, 155347^.

Class 156s
156420, 156421, 156423, 156424, 156425, 156426, 156427, 156428, 156429, 156438*, 156440, 156441, 156443*, 156444*, 156448^, 156451*, 156452, 156454*, 156455, 156459, 156460, 156461, 156463*, 156464, 156466, 156468, 156469, 156471*, 156472*^, 156475, 156479*, 156480, 156481*, 156482*, 156483*, 156484*, 156486*, 156487*, 156488*, 156489*, 156490^, 156491*, 1564??, 1564??, 1564??, 1564??, 1564??.

Class 158s
158752*, 158753*, 158754*, 158755*, 158756*, 158757^, 158758^, 158759.

158782*, 158784, 158786*, 158787, 158789*, 158790, 158791, 158792, 158793, 158794, 158795, 158796, 158797, 158815, 158816, 158817, 158842, 158843, 158844, 158845*, 158848*, 158849*, 158850*, 158851, 158853, 158855, 158859*, 158860*, 158861, 158867*, 158868*, 158869*, 158870*$, 158871*$, 158872.

158901, 158902, 158903, 158904, 158905, 158906, 158907, 158908, 158909, 158910.

Note: 158906 is fitted with WiFi, charging points and a PIS in one carriage.

Class 170s
170453*, 170454*, 170455*, 170456*, 170457*, 170458*, 170459*, 170460*, 170461*, 170472*, 170473*, 170474*, 170475*, 170476*, 170477*, 170478*.

Class 319s (All are now PRM compliant)
319361*^, 319362*, 319363*, 319364*, 319365*, 319366*, 319367*, 319368*, 319369*, 319370*, 319371*, 319374*, 319375*, 319376*, 319377*, 319378*, 319379*, 319380*, 319381*$, 319382*, 319383*, 319384*, 319385*, 319386*.

319424*^, 319431*^, 319434*^, 319442*$, 319448*, 319450*^, 319456*^, 319458*$.

Class 333s
333001*, 333002*, 333003*, 333004*, 333005*, 333006*, 333007*, 333008*, 333009*, 333010*, 333011*, 333012*, 333013*, 333014*, 333015*, 333016*.

Class 769s (Undergoing conversion)
769424*, 769431*, 769434*F, 769442*, 769448*, 769450*, 769456*F, 769458*, 7694??$, 7694??$, 7694??$.

If anyone sees any mistakes or has any additional information, please let me know.

 

[absolutelymilk]

Are CAF making the 195s at the same factory as the Mark 5s? If not, and Northern were really desperate for more stock to cover PRM mods, would ordering Mark 5s speed things up?

 

[47802]

Are CAF making the 195s at the same factory as the Mark 5s? If not, and Northern were really desperate for more stock to cover PRM mods, would ordering Mark 5s speed things up?

I think that's doubtful and not going to happen anyway, given Rail Buses are due to start going off lease towards the end of this year there could be some option of keeping more of them obviously limited up to the end of 2019 if PRM modes are getting behind even if that's not particularly popular.

 

[507021]

Are CAF making the 195s at the same factory as the Mark 5s? If not, and Northern were really desperate for more stock to cover PRM mods, would ordering Mark 5s speed things up?

I'm not sure, but I don't think it's likely either way. I expect Northern would probably keep hold some of the 144s if anything. I expect once more of the cascaded ScotRail stock, all of which I believe is already PRM compliant, has arrived then the process will speed up because there'll be more capacity available to release other units for PRM modifications and refurbishment.

 

[brel york]

Wabtec gave agreed to take a fourth 150 onto works to have the prm work done , this is only on units that have already had the corrosion work done
List available if required

 

[507021]

Wabtec gave agreed to take a fourth 150 onto works to have the prm work done , this is only on units that have already had the corrosion work done
List available if required

That would be brilliant if you could, I'll add it into my list.

 

[brel york]

I’ll do it now

 

[NorthernSpirit]

You're looking to pay for significant route clearance works for Turbos then? I think the reality is that the next Northern franchise will need to replace all the 150s and a good selection of other Sprinters. And if the electrification trajectory continues as we might currently anticipate then we're probably looking at self powered MUs.

Cheaper to have more trains? I'm not sure I follow? There are definitely routes that only need 2 cars, so why provide them with 3?

It'd allow flexibility should there ever be a last minute unit swap, going by what I was told on the now defunct Northern Railways forum which closed in 2013, the class 165's and 166's are cleared for the Sheffield to Bridlington / Scarborough route.

 

[brel york]

150 111-150 112-150 132-150 103
150 109-150 105-150 107-150 119
150 113-150 117-150 214-150 114
150 115-150 118-150 110-150 210
150 226-150 116-150 122.
Apparently coming in that order too

 

[507021]

150 111-150 112-150 132-150 103
150 109-150 105-150 107-150 119
150 113-150 117-150 214-150 114
150 115-150 118-150 110-150 210
150 226-150 116-150 122.
Apparently coming in that order too

That's brilliant. As ever, thank you very much.

Your contributions to this thread are greatly appreciated.

 

[trainmananthon]

First update of 2018.

Units in red are in the Northern Rail livery or their former operator's livery.
Units in blue are in the Northern or Northern base livery.
Units in bold are refurbished.
Units with a ^ are out of service for repaint/refurbishment/PRM mods.
Units with a * have received PRM modifications.
Units with a $ are currently stored/out of service.
Units in italics have not arrived yet.

Class 150s
150101, 150102^, 150103, 150104, 150105, 150106, 150107, 150108, 150109, 150110, 150111, 150112, 150113, 150114, 150115, 150116, 150117, 150118, 150119, 150120, 150121, 150122, 150123, 150124*$, 150125, 150126*, 150127, 150128, 150129, 150130, 150131, 150132, 150133, 150134*, 150135, 150136*, 150137*, 150138, 150139, 150140*, 150141, 150142*, 150143, 150144^, 150145, 150146, 150147, 150148, 150149^, 150150.

150201, 150203*, 150204*, 150205*, 150206*, 150207, 150210, 150211*^, 150214, 150215, 150218, 150220*, 150222*, 150223*, 150224, 150225, 150226, 150228, 150268, 150269, 150270, 150271, 150272, 150273, 150274^, 150275*, 150276*, 150277.

Class 155s
155341, 155342, 155343, 155344, 155345*, 155346*, 155347^.

Class 156s
156420, 156421, 156423, 156424, 156425, 156426, 156427, 156428, 156429, 156438*, 156440, 156441, 156443*, 156444*, 156448^, 156451*, 156452, 156454*, 156455, 156459, 156460, 156461, 156463*, 156464, 156466, 156468, 156469, 156471*, 156472*^, 156475, 156479*, 156480, 156481*, 156482*, 156483*, 156484*, 156486*, 156487*, 156488*, 156489*, 156490^, 156491*, 1564??, 1564??, 1564??, 1564??, 1564??.

Class 158s
158752*, 158753*, 158754*, 158755*, 158756*, 158757^, 158758^, 158759.

158782*, 158784, 158786*, 158787, 158789*, 158790, 158791, 158792, 158793, 158794, 158795, 158796, 158797, 158815, 158816, 158817, 158842, 158843, 158844, 158845*, 158848*, 158849*, 158850*, 158851, 158853, 158855, 158859, 158860*, 158861, 158867*, 158868*, 158869*, 158870*$, 158871*$, 158872.

158901, 158902, 158903, 158904, 158905, 158906, 158907, 158908, 158909, 158910.

Note: 158906 is fitted with WiFi, charging points and a PIS in one carriage.

Class 170s
170453*, 170454*, 170455*, 170456*, 170457*, 170458*, 170459*, 170460*, 170461*, 170472*, 170473*, 170474*, 170475*, 170476*, 170477*, 170478*.

Class 319s (All are now PRM compliant)
319361*^, 319362*, 319363*, 319364*, 319365*, 319366*, 319367*, 319368*, 319369*, 319370*, 319371*, 319374*, 319375*, 319376*, 319377*, 319378*, 319379*, 319380*, 319381*$, 319382*, 319383*, 319384*, 319385*, 319386*.

319424*^, 319431*^, 319434*^, 319442*$, 319448*, 319450*^, 319456*^, 319458*$.

Class 333s
333001*, 333002*, 333003*, 333004*, 333005*, 333006*, 333007*, 333008*, 333009*, 333010*, 333011*, 333012*, 333013*, 333014*, 333015*, 333016*.

Class 769s (Undergoing conversion)
769424*, 769431*, 769434*F, 769442*, 769448*, 769450*, 769456*F, 769458*, 7694??$, 7694??$, 7694??$.

If anyone sees any mistakes or has any additional information, please let me know.

158859 also now PRMd. I can keep you updated on the 158 fleet since I see and use them on a daily basis.

 

[brel york]

That's brilliant. As ever, thank you very much.

Your contributions to this thread are greatly appreciated.

Thank you pleasure is all mine
150 149 back from paint today

 

[507021]

158859 also now PRMd. I can keep you updated on the 158 fleet since I see and use them on a daily basis.

That would be brilliant, thank you.

Thank you pleasure is all mine
150 149 back from paint today

Excellent, thanks again.

 

[jonesy3001]

150 111-150 112-150 132-150 103
150 109-150 105-150 107-150 119
150 113-150 117-150 214-150 114
150 115-150 118-150 110-150 210
150 226-150 116-150 122.
Apparently coming in that order too

when do the 150s from london midland transfer noticed they're on the list?

 

[507021]

when does 150 109 transfer from london midland if thats first on the list?

I've heard the earliest the WMT units will be transferring to Northern is in May, but don't quote me on that.

 

[simon7929]

158757 passed Hexham this morning on return from Scotland.

 

[northwichcat]

I've heard the earliest the WMT units will be transferring to Northern is in May, but don't quote me on that.

That would rely on them getting 153s from GWR and/or D-Trains. If it's 153s I imagine WMT will need to keep at least one 150 for now.

 

[Chrisyd]

Travelled on 150205 this morning which has been been repainted and had PRM alterations and yellow grab handles on top of the seats.
I don't know if this is just because I have never had to travel on the unit and not noticed, but in the middle end of the carriage without the toilet, the seats are all airline layout, aside from the last row of three which has now been turned to face the row of two. However there is not enough space for two people to put their legs, so you effectively end up loosing two seats, or very interlocked legs.
Has this just been changed and is it something we will see on other units?

 

[Halish Railway]

Travelled on 150205 this morning which has been been repainted and had PRM alterations and yellow grab handles on top of the seats.
I don't know if this is just because I have never had to travel on the unit and not noticed, but in the middle end of the carriage without the toilet, the seats are all airline layout, aside from the last row of three which has now been turned to face the row of two. However there is not enough space for two people to put their legs, so you effectively end up loosing two seats, or very interlocked legs.
Has this just been changed and is it something we will see on other units?

It's happened on a few units, 150 136 has had the same treatment.