Northern Unit Refurbishments

[northwichcat]

I believe that what you've read in other threads about 170s on Calder Valley routes started with a post from me a while back saying something along the lines that I'd heard a rumour that this was a possibility. To my horror this was repeated without any qualification whatsoever by others and now seems to have become an accepted truth. Unless there has been confirmation by someone else, this remains pure speculation. I've heard nothing new since the original rumour.

I've learnt not to post rumours here, it was illuminating how quickly a rumour of a possibility morphed into a "true fact".

The rumour does have logic to it. Northern did say the routes the 170s end up on will be Harrogate and Leeds-Southport (in a digital copy of a staff magazine which uploaded in a way that made it available to all), so Leeds and Victoria crews will need training on 170s and we also know 158s are being removed from some Yorkshire services so they can work Cumbria services which will mean those 158s have to be replaced by something. However, if your post was the one I recall reading which specifically mentioned Chester to Leeds services in the interim then even if that was true at the time it could have changed by now, given we no longer know for certain that Chester to Leeds will start in May 2018. There would certainly be an argument for not extending that service to Chester if Northern are short of DMUs and concentrating on improving services on routes where Northern provide the only service.

 

[175001]

155s are moving to Hull Botanic Gardens to replace the 158s in the area

 

[Geeves]

So that is

156s to Leeds
155s to Hull
158s to Barrow
158s to Newcastle
323s to Liverpool

Lots of training hours!

 

[northwichcat]

So that is

156s to Leeds
155s to Hull
158s to Barrow
158s to Newcastle
323s to Liverpool

Lots of training hours!

Are 158s going to Newcastle before the next timetable change or do you mean at some point in the future when the Pacers start getting withdrawn?

 

[NORMAN471]

Latest changes are underlined.

Units in red are in the Northern Rail livery or their former operator's livery.
Units in blue are in the Northern or Northern base livery.
Units in bold are refurbished.
Units with a ^ are out of service for repaint/refurbishment/PRM mods.
Units with a * have received PRM modifications.
Units with a $ are currently stored/out of service.
Units in italics have not arrived yet.

Class 150s
150101, 150102^, 150103, 150104, 150105, 150106, 150107, 150108$, 150109, 150110, 150111, 150112, 150113^, 150114, 150115, 150116^, 150117, 150118, 150119, 150120$, 150121, 150122, 150123, 150124*, 150125, 150126*, 150127, 150128$, 150129$, 150130, 150131, 150132, 150133, 150134*, 150135, 150136*, 150137*, 150138, 150139, 150140*, 150141, 150142*, 150143, 150144^, 150145, 150146, 150147, 150148, 150149*, 150150.

150201, 150203*, 150204*, 150205*, 150206*, 150207, 150210, 150211*, 150214, 150215, 150218, 150220*, 150222*, 150223*, 150224, 150225, 150226, 150228, 150268, 150269, 150270^, 150271, 150272, 150273, 150274*, 150275*, 150276*, 150277.

Class 155s
155341, 155342, 155343, 155344, 155345*, 155346*, 155347^.

Class 156s
156420*$, 156421, 156423, 156424, 156425, 156426, 156427, 156428, 156429, 156438*, 156440, 156441, 156443*, 156444*, 156448*, 156451*, 156452^, 156454*, 156455, 156459, 156460, 156461, 156463*, 156464, 156466, 156468, 156469*, 156471*, 156472*, 156475^, 156479*, 156480, 156481*, 156482*, 156483*, 156484*, 156486*, 156487*, 156488*, 156489*, 156490*, 156491*, 1564??, 1564??, 1564??, 1564??, 1564??.

Class 158s
158752*, 158753*, 158754*, 158755*, 158756*, 158757*, 158758^, 158759.

158782*, 158784, 158786*, 158787, 158789*, 158790, 158791, 158792, 158793, 158794, 158795, 158796, 158797, 158815, 158816, 158817, 158842, 158843, 158844, 158845*^, 158848*, 158849*, 158850*, 158851, 158853, 158855^, 158859*, 158860*, 158861, 158867*, 158868*, 158869*, 158870*, 158871*, 158872.

158901, 158902, 158903, 158904, 158905, 158906, 158907, 158908, 158909, 158910.

Note: 158906 is fitted with WiFi, charging points and a PIS in one carriage.

Class 170s
170453*, 170454*, 170455*, 170456*, 170457*, 170458*, 170459*, 170460*, 170461*, 170472*, 170473*, 170474*, 170475*$, 170476*, 170477*, 170478*$.

Class 319s (All are now PRM compliant)
319361*, 319362*, 319363*, 319364*, 319365*, 319366*, 319367*, 319368*, 319369*, 319370*, 319371*, 319374*, 319375*, 319376*, 319377*, 319378*, 319379*, 319380*, 319381*$, 319382*, 319383*, 319384*, 319385*, 319386*.

319424*^, 319431*^, 319434*^, 319442*, 319448*, 319450*, 319456*^, 319458*$.

Class 333s
333001*, 333002*, 333003*, 333004*, 333005*, 333006*, 333007*, 333008*, 333009*, 333010*, 333011*, 333012*, 333013*, 333014*, 333015*, 333016*.

Class 769s (Undergoing conversion)
769424*, 769431*, 769434*, 769442*, 769448*, 769450*, 769456*, 769458*, 7694??, 7694??, 7694??.

If anyone sees any mistakes or has any additional information, please let me know.

Spotted an error, 150109 should be in italics as still in service with West Midlands Railway.

 

[lejog]

Lejog, please be horrified no more. I asked the question my self about 170s on the company Facebook group and the reply from the engineering director was that 170s are confirmed on Leeds to Southport workings via the Calder Valley, obviously subject to the timetable being finalised for said services.

I meant 170s being used as a temporary measure until the arrival of 195s on the Leeds to Chester and Man Airport services, as referenced in the post I quoted, not the Southport service.

 

[driver_m]

Looked like a Northern unit being dragged out of Wolverton before ready to head somewhere North.

 

[Mordac]

Spotted an error, 150109 should be in italics as still in service with West Midlands Railway.

As should 158782, still with ScotRail as far as I'm aware.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I meant 170s being used as a temporary measure until the arrival of 195s on the Leeds to Chester and Man Airport services, as referenced in the post I quoted, not the Southport service.

170s will stay on Calder Valley albeit via Dewsbury (as well as moving to Harrogate) in the form of the Leeds to Southport service won't they? Even after the 195s arrive, I mean.

 

[quantinghome]

Is there any confirmed information on the planned rolling stock and services for the Airedale and Wharfedale lines? I know the 331s are planned for these routes, with some 333s retained. The franchise agreement talks about Leeds-Skipton train lengthening for 6-car working (presumable doubled up 331s). But it's unclear how it's all going to work together and it's not clear whether the Wharfedale line or Leeds-Bradford FS will receive longer trains.

 

[northwichcat]

Is there any confirmed information on the planned rolling stock and services for the Airedale and Wharfedale lines? I know the 331s are planned for these routes, with some 333s retained. The franchise agreement talks about Leeds-Skipton train lengthening for 6-car working (presumable doubled up 331s). But it's unclear how it's all going to work together and it's not clear whether the Wharfedale line or Leeds-Bradford FS will receive longer trains.

I'm under the impression 331s will work Leeds-Skipton services and 333s will work all other electrified services in West Yorkshire (including Leeds-Doncaster.)

 

[Allwinter_Kit]

Is there any confirmed information on the planned rolling stock and services for the Airedale and Wharfedale lines?

There is some rumour and the occasional fact in this thread:

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/deployment-of-331s-what-services-are-likely.157624/

 

[lejog]

Is there any confirmed information on the planned rolling stock and services for the Airedale and Wharfedale lines? I know the 331s are planned for these routes, with some 333s retained. The franchise agreement talks about Leeds-Skipton train lengthening for 6-car working (presumable doubled up 331s). But it's unclear how it's all going to work together and it's not clear whether the Wharfedale line or Leeds-Bradford FS will receive longer trains.

Since the platform lengthening project is being funded by a fixed total budget provided by the DfT, I think it is fairly clear that lines not included in the list in the Franchise Agreement, such as the Wharfedale and Bradford FS lines, aren't likely to see platform lengthening.

 

[lejog]

155s are moving to Hull Botanic Gardens to replace the 158s in the area

Is this in May or at a later date?

 

[175001]

Training has begun, so I'd guess some digarams will be 155's from May, but of course with this timetable up in the air, who knows.

 

[Mollman]

155s are moving to Hull Botanic Gardens to replace the 158s in the area

Just when you think things can't get worse for Hull! Might be using the bus more often.

 

[northwichcat]

Just when you think things can't get worse for Hull! Might be using the bus more often.

You talk of 155s being a downgrade, yet for many Northern passengers 155s would be a upgrade - Hull must have been having it good.

 

[xotGD]

You talk of 155s being a downgrade, yet for many Northern passengers 155s would be a upgrade - Hull must have been having it good.

Exactly. If the Codheads don't want the 155s send them to the Pontefract Line!

 

[SteveyBee131]

Exactly. If the Codheads don't want the 155s send them to the Pontefract Line!

I'm sure Grimbarians (who 'Codheads' actually refers to) would love to have services run with 155's, but as there is no direct line between Hull and Grimsby, it is doubtful it will ever happen.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I'm sure Grimbarians (who 'Codheads' actually refers to) would love to have services run with 155's, but as there is no direct line between Hull and Grimsby, it is doubtful it will ever happen.

They get half a 155 every day on the Barton line...

 

[507021]

Spotted an error, 150109 should be in italics as still in service with West Midlands Railway.

As should 158782, still with ScotRail as far as I'm aware.

Thanks, I have corrected these.

 

[superkev]

155s are moving to Hull Botanic Gardens to replace the 158s in the area

Perhaps the good people of Hull have the shorter legs needed to sit in a 155. Truly awfully things.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Perhaps the good people of Hull have the shorter legs needed to sit in a 155. Truly awfully things.

It wouldn't be the worst idea in the world to take some of the seats being replaced in the 158s (the original ones rather than the horrid ex-Central Trains/W&W Alphaline ones that some of Northern's fleet has) and put them in the 155s with the loss of a pair on either side of each car.

 

[northernchris]

I would imagine you will still see 150s and 156s on the Calder Valley too. Its going to be the only way they can transfer units from ones side to other once all the Huddersfield line goes over to TPE. Also Leeds are going to be signing 156s shortly too.

Unless there is to be a reshuffle of unit allocations

 

[simon7929]

The 35 class 142s at Heaton currently work in the NE and around the Yorkshire area as it currently stands. As the 142s are all due to be withdrawn, 156s will replace these on NE services. My theory being that 156s will take over the services currently operated by Heaton 142s. This would suggest the majority if not all the 156s will be allocated to Heaton. The fact that Leeds depot are training on 156s would add weight to this theory. However I could be wrong!

 

[simon7929]

Allerton currently have 28 156s . These plus the five Scotrail units would replace the 35 pacers at Heaton. As I say though it's just a theory.

 

[Loop & Link]

Allerton will be losing it’s allocation of Class 156’s.

 

[northwichcat]

The 35 class 142s at Heaton currently work in the NE and around the Yorkshire area as it currently stands. As the 142s are all due to be withdrawn, 156s will replace these on NE services. My theory being that 156s will take over the services currently operated by Heaton 142s. This would suggest the majority if not all the 156s will be allocated to Heaton. The fact that Leeds depot are training on 156s would add weight to this theory. However I could be wrong!

I don't agree with your theory. The crew training which is taking place currently relates to internal cascades and new routes which are planned to start at the May timetable change. 158s are to be used on Manchester Airport to Cumbria routes and given Northern have only had 2 extra, some existing class 158 routes are going to have to lose their 158s hence Hull crews learning 155s and Leeds crews learning 156s.

We also know some Yorkshire Pacer routes will get 150s instead and others will be lucky and get 195s (Sheffield to Lincoln and Sheffield to Leeds) so Heaton won't need to send 156s down to run those services in the same way they currently send 142s down.

Allerton currently have 28 156s . These plus the five Scotrail units would replace the 35 pacers at Heaton. As I say though it's just a theory.

And what would replace the 156s currently allocated to Allerton as North West units? The 158s that you need for the Northern Connect services?

 

[td97]

And what would replace the 156s currently allocated to Allerton as North West units? The 158s that you need for the Northern Connect services?

Allerton will gain more EMUs as Liverpool - Blackpool services will go electric, although admittedly that won't replace all 28 of the 156's reported as currently being there.

 

[1D53]

The Allerton 156's move to NH with the bulk of the allocation of 331's moving to Allerton.