Possible plans for Edinburgh Waverley station?

[InOban]

The ferry is overnight,

There's a train at 14.00 which connects on to the evening ferry to stromness.

Between June and August it is also possible by bus. There two buses a day which use the shorter and more frequent crossing from Gills Bay. The afternoon bus leaves after 2.

 

[hexagon789]

The ferry is overnight,

There's a train at 14.00 which connects on to the evening ferry to stromness.

Between June and August it is also possible by bus. There two buses a day which use the shorter and more frequent crossing from Gills Bay. The afternoon bus leaves after 2.

I prefer the train wherever possible

 

[Altnabreac]

I think we are now at the stage where the important thing for Network Rail to think about how Waverley will work in future as a mezzanine based station at the west end. How can you link that Mezzanine to Waverley Bridge, to the platform level and to the historic ticket office building.

What facilities will be kept at platform level and what will need to be provided at the Mezzanine level?

If one of the ramps is removed (probably south) how will that affect access and servicing of the commercial property.

At the east end I think thought needs to be given to a raised route linking right through from Market Street to Calton Road.

 

[hexagon789]

I think we are now at the stage where the important thing for Network Rail to think about how Waverley will work in future as a mezzanine based station at the west end. How can you link that Mezzanine to Waverley Bridge, to the platform level and to the historic ticket office building.

What facilities will be kept at platform level and what will need to be provided at the Mezzanine level?

If one of the ramps is removed (probably south) how will that affect access and servicing of the commercial property.

At the east end I think thought needs to be given to a raised route linking right through from Market Street to Calton Road.

They could certainly do with working on some of the access points.

 

[takno]

If they're looking for a strategic vision how about they think first of all how the taxi rank might work in practical terms and move it on from its present disgraceful shambles? Sort that out and then they can have as many visions as they like.

The Waverley rank mostly seems to work okay, although space constraints naturally cause some issues. Taxi ranks and pick up facilities at most stations have been turned into a complete shambles anyway by Uber drivers having to pick up their specified passenger rather than waiting in a queue. Compared to that scrum the rank at Waverley is fine

 

[hexagon789]

The Waverley rank mostly seems to work okay, although space constraints naturally cause some issues. Taxi ranks and pick up facilities at most stations have been turned into a complete shambles anyway by Uber drivers having to pick up their specified passenger rather than waiting in a queue. Compared to that scrum the rank at Waverley is fine

It's certainly better than when it was still in the middle of the concourse.

 

[railjock]

I think we are now at the stage where the important thing for Network Rail to think about how Waverley will work in future as a mezzanine based station at the west end. How can you link that Mezzanine to Waverley Bridge, to the platform level and to the historic ticket office building.

What facilities will be kept at platform level and what will need to be provided at the Mezzanine level?

If one of the ramps is removed (probably south) how will that affect access and servicing of the commercial property.

At the east end I think thought needs to be given to a raised route linking right through from Market Street to Calton Road.

Are you talking about a route for vehicles or pedestrians from Market Street to Carlton Road?

 

[InOban]

The building is listed, which would probably prevent removal of either ramp. Whether NR will be able to create the mezzanine floor which they desire, I don't know.

I'm not sure to what extent the listing extends to the South ('suburban') buildings which lie outside the main area. I've wondered whether it would be possible to demolish the buildings which lie on Market street and build a brand new side entrance occupying the whole area between the street and the boundary wall of the main building. This could include a proper taxi rank, and a public pickup area.

The problem I seen with the current taxi rank, apart from being outside some grimy buildings, is that so many of taxis need to do a U-turn on the street. Not all of them are London cabs with tight turning circles.

 

[Steamysandy]

The ferry is overnight,

There's a train at 14.00 which connects on to the evening ferry to stromness.

Between June and August it is also possible by bus. There two buses a day which use the shorter and more frequent crossing from Gills Bay. The afternoon bus leaves after 2.

I think the train quoted is from Inverness as is the bus Definitely.
Many years ago there was an overhead passage from Calton Road to Market Street which I'm certain may still partly exist under the station roof above the East end platforms .The Calton Road end was accessed by a flight of stairs now long demolished
I used to curse using it as I couldn't see the trains in the station when crossing it!

 

[takno]

I'm not sure to what extent the listing extends to the South ('suburban') buildings which lie outside the main area. I've wondered whether it would be possible to demolish the buildings which lie on Market street and build a brand new side entrance occupying the whole area between the street and the boundary wall of the main building. This could include a proper taxi rank, and a public pickup area.

The problem I seen with the current taxi rank, apart from being outside some grimy buildings, is that so many of taxis need to do a U-turn on the street. Not all of them are London cabs with tight turning circles.

Fairly sure they are listed. and are pretty much vital to the character of the city. If you want to stop U-turns being a problem the easiest thing to do would be to make the street one-way. Hell you could probably just switch the direction of the rank and ban U-turns before the mini-roundabout.

 

[oldman]

Many years ago there was an overhead passage from Calton Road to Market Street which I'm certain may still partly exist under the station roof above the East end platforms .The Calton Road end was accessed by a flight of stairs now long demolished

I thought it was a continuation of the existing Calton Road entrance. This picture is from the Scotsman, which says it was closed ‘temporarily’ in 1958. It wouldn't really help the

 

[Steamysandy]

I think the train quoted is from Inverness as is the bus Definitely.
Many years ago there was an overhead passage from Calton Road to Market Street which I'm certain may still partly exist under the station roof above the East end platforms .The Calton Road end was accessed by a flight of stairs now long demolished
I used to curse using it as I couldn't see the trains in the station when crossing it!

On rethinking,Oldman is correct regarding the Calton Road end of the passage but I do recall my parents using it on a number of occasions when visiting Edinburgh which is still known as going up town.
Due to issues I can't remember when I was last up there!

 

[hexagon789]

The problem I seen with the current taxi rank, apart from being outside some grimy buildings, is that so many of taxis need to do a U-turn on the street. Not all of them are London cabs with tight turning circles.

It does seem to play merry hell with the traffic flow.

 

[greyman42]

If they're looking for a strategic vision how about they think first of all how the taxi rank might work in practical terms and move it on from its present disgraceful shambles? Sort that out and then they can have as many visions as they like.

I am not aware of the current problems with the taxi rank. Could you explain. I don't doubt you, I am just curious.

 

[47271]

There's a lot more wrong with the Market Street taxi 'rank' than cabs turning round, although that is a problem for other traffic. It took me ten minutes to drive from one end of Market Street to the other during the Festival last year, and I'd say that eight of those minutes were lost by congestion caused by taxis. And it isn't just the Festival period, the amount of people arriving at Waverley with luggage has grown tremendously even since the old internal rank was closed.

There's no shelter, no proper queuing system, the pavement's too narrow, and even though it's only a few years old the lift between the station's bridge level and the street (it also serves the New Street car park, making it even slower) wasn't designed to carry the volumes of passengers with large luggage that it now handles.

Waverley has four pedestrian exits: Market Street, Calton Road, Princes Street and Waverley Bridge. Princes Street can be discounted as a location for cabs because of the steps and bus congestion, but more could be done to distribute taxi pickup away from Market Street and in particular towards the very underused Calton Road entrance. There's plenty of space and pavement width there. Granted the Leith Street end of Calton Road is shut for work on the St James Quarter at the moment but that's only temporary.

If I need a taxi when I arrive by train I always head up the ramp to Waverley Bridge, I never mess around in Market Street.

Would it be beyond Network Rail to put some resource into managing arriving passengers to three separate ranks depending on the number of available taxis on each, or even the final destination of the user?

Does anyone know if they have any plans to improve the present arrangement - even doing something about the Market Street lift would be a start - or is it going to be left to shamble on as it is?

 

[InOban]

Market Street on a dark night is the most depressing entrance to a major city. Waverley deserves a 'statement' entrance such as Queen Street is getting.

 

[hexagon789]

Market Street on a dark night is the most depressing entrance to a major city. Waverley deserves a 'statement' entrance such as Queen Street is getting.

I think the entrance off the bridge could do with a much needed revamp.

 

[edwin_m]

Waverley has four pedestrian exits: Market Street, Calton Road, Princes Street and Waverley Bridge. Princes Street can be discounted as a location for cabs because of the steps and bus congestion, but more could be done to distribute taxi pickup away from Market Street and in particular towards the very underused Calton Road entrance. There's plenty of space and pavement width there. Granted the Leith Street end of Calton Road is shut for work on the St James Quarter at the moment but that's only temporary.

If I need a taxi when I arrive by train I always head up the ramp to Waverley Bridge, I never mess around in Market Street.

Would it be beyond Network Rail to put some resource into managing arriving passengers to three separate ranks depending on the number of available taxis on each, or even the final destination of the user?

Does anyone know if they have any plans to improve the present arrangement - even doing something about the Market Street lift would be a start - or is it going to be left to shamble on as it is?

It would be better to focus all taxis on one location, as it would result in fewer waiting taxis and less confusion for people who have booked to be picked up. Perhaps this could be Calton Road, although I think it's a bit of a walk from the busiest parts of the station.

 

[hexagon789]

It would be better to focus all taxis on one location, as it would result in fewer waiting taxis and less confusion for people who have booked to be picked up. Perhaps this could be Calton Road, although I think it's a bit of a walk from the busiest parts of the station.

I think having all the taxis in one place is definitely needed, I agree Calton Rd is perhaps a bit far if you've lots of heavy luggage.

 

[clc]

Press release

https://www.networkrail.co.uk/feeds/masterplan-initiative-seeks-new-vision-for-waverley/

“Waverley has seen its footfall more than double from 10 million to over 24 million within the last ten years and estimates suggest that it will almost double again, to 40 million, by 2024.”

A 66% increase in the next 6 years? Surely not.

 

[hexagon789]

“Waverley has seen its footfall more than double from 10 million to over 24 million within the last ten years and estimates suggest that it will almost double again, to 40 million, by 2024.”

A 66% increase in the next 6 years? Surely not.

It does seem a bit too large of an increase. Creative hyperbole perhaps?

 

[gsnedders]

I wonder what chaos making Market St between Jeffrey St and Cockburn St one way westbound (i.e., towards Cockburn St) would create? I feel like a lot of the craziness is caused by parking and turning taxis etc., and making it one-way, maybe having a dedicated private-hire pickup parking bit (do such things exist anywhere?), would help.

 

[jopsuk]

if you were going to make Market Street one way westbound only, it would be interesting as there would be no eastbound route at most times for even taxis, between Princes Street and Cowgate or Chambers Street (transferring between those two isn't always easy).

Personally I'm usually in favour of such closures (they tend to reduce rather than displace traffic) but in this case I'm not so sure.

It's always possible to create restrictions that allow hackney carriages but not private hire- look at London and other places that have (rightly) ruled that the word "taxi" on bus lane/etc signs does apply strictly to hackney carriages, which was settled after Addison Lee took TfL to court and lost. I think a "private hire only" pickup/drop off (so excluding private cars) would have to be done by having a separated lane that was "permit holders only" with permits only available to PH.

 

[Chrism20]

It would an cost absolute fortune and would probably be thrown out by someone, however I’d build a huge mezzanine level over platforms 8&9 and out onto the car park capable of allowing taxis to drive down onto. That would mean anyone arriving or departing by taxi would do so straight onto the bridge.

Ban taxis completely from setting down or picking up on Market St leaving it normal set down and pick up use only.

In the meantime I’d remove all the parking from Market St and ban deliveries between 9am and 7pm. Introduce dedicated taxi set down and pick up areas.

If it were possible I’d also install escalators and additional lifts at Calton Rd and make this the set down and pick up area for regular cars banning them from stopping on Market St altogether.

 

[ejstubbs]

Many years ago there was an overhead passage from Calton Road to Market Street which I'm certain may still partly exist under the station roof above the East end platforms .The Calton Road end was accessed by a flight of stairs now long demolished

There's more information about the Calton Road to Jeffrey Street footbridge on the rebridgethegap campaign web site.

When Waverley Station was redeveloped in the 1890s, a historic route from the Old Town to Leith Walk would have been cut off; it had been in use for hundreds of years. That is why the Act of Parliament which authorised the redevelopment required the railway company to build a footbridge over the station, from Jeffrey Street to Calton road – to maintain the route. However, in the 1950s, British Rail ‘temporarily’ closed the footbridge and it is in a sorry state today. Network Rail now proposes to remove further pieces of the footbridge as part of their plans to re-roof Waverley Station.

Since that was written, the last remnants of the stairway at the Calton Road end have been swept away - they were where the drop-off point now is. The supporting girders for the bridge are still visible within the station roof structure:

and you can see where the bridge used to finish on Jeffrey Street by looking for a mis-matched panel of railings overlooking the east end of the station.

 

[Altnabreac]

I thought it was a continuation of the existing Calton Road entrance. This picture is from the Scotsman, which says it was closed ‘temporarily’ in 1958. It wouldn't really help the

Yes, something along these lines is what I think will be needed.

At present the station has one main ground level concourse and three smaller platform sections at ground level:

• Platforms 1 / 20
• Platform 10
• Platforms 8 / 9

The station works reasonably well with just one mezzanine level walkway as 75% of the platforms are in that central area with the commercial facilities and ticket office.

If you developed the station as proposed by Network Rail in the Scotland Route Study to maximise capacity with additional through platforms you'd end up having instead five sections separate from the main concourse:

• Platforms 1 / 20
• Platforms 19 / 2
• Platforms 6 / 7 / 11 /12
• Platform 10
• Platforms 8 / 9

The main concourse would only contain 9 of the 20 platforms so there would be many more passengers needing to transit between the central concourse facilities and separate platform islands. The way to address this is threefold:

• Bigger mezzanine at the west end
• More facilities on the west end mezzanine - waiting areas, shops, cafes, ticket machines, departure boards
• Additional mezzanine at the east end linked to the Calton Street entrance and providing access to all 5 of the platform islands as well as the main concourse area.

Once you've build an east end mezzanine that goes from Calton Street as far as platform 8/9 it seems to me that it would be logical for it also to provide a new pedestrian access to Market Street particularly with both the New Street car park and the council HQ at Waverley Court being relatively popular passenger destinations.

 

[InOban]

You're suggesting that NR want to create more through platforms. I hadn't heard that, and it would have all the disadvantages you suggested. I can see space for two new bay platforms one on the inside of 19 (the equivalent of 12), and a matching one at the East end. But the major opportunity for redevelopment lies in the airspace above 8&9.

 

[Altnabreac]

You're suggesting that NR want to create more through platforms. I hadn't heard that, and it would have all the disadvantages you suggested. I can see space for two new bay platforms one on the inside of 19 (the equivalent of 12), and a matching one at the East end. But the major opportunity for redevelopment lies in the airspace above 8&9.

You can see the proposed changes in the 2016 Scotland Route Study page 39
https://cdn.networkrail.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/Scotland-Route-Study.pdf

Broadly the capacity increases it proposes are:

• Changes to eastern throat and approaches including moving and extending Platform 3
• Doubling Calton North Tunnel
• Extending the track at platforms 14-17 further into the concourse to allow longer trains
• Extending the usable length of platforms 1, 20 and 10 without changing track layout (except Klondyke siding which I presume will be moved or removed)
• Joining the new platforms 5 and 6 to existing 12 and 13 as through platforms (this would involve removing the south ramp)
• Extending Platform 18 to run right through the concourse (this would involve changes / demolition to the BTP building and the line of shops from Pasty Shop through to Europcar and Left Luggage.)

The new Eastern approaches, Calton North tunnel doubling and extensions at 1, 20, 3 and 10 seem an obvious and fairly easy to deliver first phase.

Making 5 / 13 and 6 /12 through platforms, demolishing south ramp, building the mezzanine and extending 14-17 is probably the more complex and expensive second phase.

Personally I can't see that the capacity benefits of an extended through Platform 18 will be worth the cost and disruption and I suspect it will never happen.

 

[InOban]

As a listed building, I can't conceive of them getting permission to remove the either ramp.

I don't think there's any need in the foreseeable future for more through platforms on the south side. More capacity on the North side to allow Fife services to run through towards the Borders, that would be useful.

 

[Altnabreac]

As a listed building, I can't conceive of them getting permission to remove the either ramp.

I don't think there's any need in the foreseeable future for more through platforms on the south side. More capacity on the North side to allow Fife services to run through towards the Borders, that would be useful.

I'm sure HES wouldn't be keen but ultimately I suspect permission could be acquired. Platforms 6 / 12 can of course be made a through platform without demolishing the south ramp, demolition is only needed for the 5 / 13 joining.