Should Seat Reservations Be Abolished?

[Bletchleyite]

But you have to offer it in the first place for someone to turn it down. Why offer it. InterCity travellers on non-AP tickets have the option of requesting a reservation but they don't all do.

Because they don't know which train they will be travelling on, mostly. Or because when buying on the day they usually can't, one thing that would be solved by stopping marking reservations other than an area of the train where they can be placed.

An AP ticket holder knows which train they will be travelling on (if that was a problem they would not have bought it), therefore not offering a reservation would be silly.

 

[yorksrob]

Because they don't know which train they will be travelling on, mostly. Or because when buying on the day they usually can't, one thing that would be solved by stopping marking reservations other than an area of the train where they can be placed.

An AP ticket holder knows which train they will be travelling on (if that was a problem they would not have bought it), therefore not offering a reservation would be silly.

Why would not offering a reservation be silly ? I've travelled on several AP tickets where I've neither requested nor been offered a reservation. Nothing silly about it.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Why would not offering a reservation be silly ? I've travelled on several AP tickets where I've neither requested nor been offered a reservation. Nothing silly about it.

Provided they are available on that train, it seems silly not to at least offer, and why would one not take one if offered even if "just in case"?

The key difference with an AP is that unlike a walk-up you can't decide to take another train because the one you're booked on is a bit full.

 

[yorksrob]

Provided they are available on that train, it seems silly not to at least offer, and why would one not take one if offered even if "just in case"?

The key difference with an AP is that unlike a walk-up you can't decide to take another train because the one you're booked on is a bit full.

I think you'll find that the majority of people on AP tickets are primarily concerned about getting a decent fare. Let those who want a reservation request one, but not all will be bothered. This will mean fewer reserved seats not being taken up.

 

[westv]

I think you'll find that the majority of people on AP tickets are primarily concerned about getting a decent fare. Let those who want a reservation request one, but not all will be bothered. This will mean fewer reserved seats not being taken up.

Is that based on facts or is it just your opinion?

 

[Tetchytyke]

This will mean fewer reserved seats not being taken up.

How does that work then?

If you're on an AP ticket you're either on the train or not travelling at all. If you're on the train you'll be in a seat. And if you've stayed at home someone can sit in your seat, reservation ticket or not.

So what advantage is there to not reserving one?

The advantage of reserving a seat is when you're boarding at an intermediate station. Travelling Newcastle-Edinburgh last weekend the train arrived full and standing. If reserved so I got a seat. With counted places I'd have been standing (as would my pregnant wife!)

 

[Ianno87]

I think you'll find that the majority of people on AP tickets are primarily concerned about getting a decent fare. Let those who want a reservation request one, but not all will be bothered. This will mean fewer reserved seats not being taken up.

Not necessarily. Firstly, Advance does not necessarily equate to "Budget" (e.g. you can get an Advance on the 0715 Piccadilly-Euston), and if you just happen to check your trains a day or two before and you have reasonable certainty of travel plans, why not book an Advance if it saves a few quid (if not huge amounts) off the walk up fare?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Not necessarily. Firstly, Advance does not necessarily equate to "Budget" (e.g. you can get an Advance on the 0715 Piccadilly-Euston), and if you just happen to check your trains a day or two before and you have reasonable certainty of travel plans, why not book an Advance if it saves a few quid (if not huge amounts) off the walk up fare?

I find I'm almost certain to know the time of travel on the outward leg of a long distance journey, and almost certain to know the day of return but may need more flexibility on time. As such, an Advance on the way out (maybe a First Advance to treat myself) and a SVH on the way back is an increasingly useful combination.

 

[Old Yard Dog]

Reservations are essential but the number of any particular train should be limited. TPE in particular over-reserve their services making it difficult for other passengers to find seats, many of whom are making very short journeys.

I would be tempted to have a small surcharge for people making very short journeys on long distance trains when alternative local services are available. Like the ICE supplement in Germany.

 

[yorksrob]

How does that work then?

If you're on an AP ticket you're either on the train or not travelling at all. If you're on the train you'll be in a seat. And if you've stayed at home someone can sit in your seat, reservation ticket or not.

So what advantage is there to not reserving one?

The advantage of reserving a seat is when you're boarding at an intermediate station. Travelling Newcastle-Edinburgh last weekend the train arrived full and standing. If reserved so I got a seat. With counted places I'd have been standing (as would my pregnant wife!)

Currently two people buy reserved tickets.

Both are given seat reservations automatically.

Person A likes to have a reserved seat and is very happy and sits in his reserved seat.

Person B doesn't particularly want a reserved seat and finds another seat/doesn't turn up/spends the journey with friends in the buffet car.

Result = 1 seat with a reservation occupied, another seemingly occupied with a reservation but empty, possibly a further seat without a reservation occupied.

My alternative system -

Person A wants a seat reservation so requests one.

Person B doesn't want a seat reservation and doesn't request one.

Result = 2 seats occupied, no unoccupied reserved seats.

Fairly straightforward really.

 

[yorksrob]

Not necessarily. Firstly, Advance does not necessarily equate to "Budget" (e.g. you can get an Advance on the 0715 Piccadilly-Euston), and if you just happen to check your trains a day or two before and you have reasonable certainty of travel plans, why not book an Advance if it saves a few quid (if not huge amounts) off the walk up fare?

I never said that no one on AP would want a seat reservation.

 

[peri]

It may seem to be a bit counterintuitive but the passengers paying the least are the ones most likely to be travelling on that particular train, e.g. advance tickets. Perhaps they should be in certain coaches and flexible passengers in other coaches where there will be unreserved seats and reserved that may not be used. In time passengers will realise that certain coaches are more open to flexible travellers.

 

[yorksrob]

It may seem to be a bit counterintuitive but the passengers paying the least are the ones most likely to be travelling on that particular train, e.g. advance tickets. Perhaps they should be in certain coaches and flexible passengers in other coaches where there will be unreserved seats and reserved that may not be used. In time passengers will realise that certain coaches are more open to flexible travellers.

I use AP tickets and I'd rather have the choice of anywhere on the train than be restricted to a particular carriage.

 

[peri]

I use AP tickets and I'd rather have the choice of anywhere on the train than be restricted to a particular carriage.

But at least you will be definitely on that train. I too don't want to be restricted to one seat as TPE never seem to know just which direction they are travelling in. My beef is with passengers who have reserved a seat on a train that they might not be on.

 

[yorksrob]

But at least you will be definitely on that train. I too don't want to be restricted to one seat as TPE never seem to know just which direction they are travelling in. My beef is with passengers who have reserved a seat on a train that they might not be on.

Fair point, if that happens a lot.

 

[xotGD]

My beef is with passengers who have reserved a seat on a train that they might not be on.

You mean those passengers who have paid more for a flexible ticket and have exercised their right to travel on a different train?

 

[edwin_m]

But you have to offer it in the first place for someone to turn it down. Why offer it. InterCity travellers on non-AP tickets have the option of requesting a reservation but they don't all do.

I can just imagine the complaint:

I booked from Penzance to Dundee and had to stand all the way. I'm 83 with a wooden leg and my nephew writes a column in the Telegraph.

Why didn't you get a reservation?

Nobody told me they were available...

 

[yorksrob]

I can just imagine the complaint:

I booked from Penzance to Dundee and had to stand all the way. I'm 83 with a wooden leg and my nephew writes a column in the Telegraph.

Why didn't you get a reservation?

Nobody told me they were available...

It doesn't seem to be an issue with any other type of ticket ?

 

[westv]

I use AP tickets and I'd rather have the choice of anywhere on the train than be restricted to a particular carriage.

I'd rather have a seat selector map - one that works properly VTEC!

 

[randyrippley]

Make all tickets sold with a reservation only valid on the nominated train.
Tickets sold without a reservation should be valid on any train.

That should eliminate most of the unused reservations and free up capacity

 

[Bevan Price]

A lot of problems would be solved if we had proper, decent length trains instead of the toy-sized 2, 3 or 4 coach trains used on many long-distance routes. I would also suggest that no more than half the seats on any train should be reservable, and that all reservations must be displayed before the train leaves its starting point (i.e. no "10 minute" style reservations permitted once the train has left its starting point.)

 

[philthetube]

A big chunk of the problem is too many cheap advances on busy trains, if the pricing was right the issue was much reduced. for example on Fri June 22 I can get an advance London to Penzance for £37, as against £91 for an off peak, that train will be rammed at that time, surely that price should be higher to encourage people to travel at other times.

 

[Parallel]

I think another thing to do would be to limit the seat reservation to 1 per ticket on flexible tickets. The ticket number would be registered so you couldn’t use it again to book another seat. This would stop people booking 3 or 4 seats on different trains. Want to travel on a different train? Fine, but you won’t have a reserved seat.

I can just imagine the complaint:

I booked from Penzance to Dundee and had to stand all the way. I'm 83 with a wooden leg and my nephew writes a column in the Telegraph.

Why didn't you get a reservation?

Nobody told me they were available...

What’s more likely is the XC reservation system will be broken causing arguments and conflict for the whole journey there.

 

[yorksrob]

I'd rather have a seat selector map - one that works properly VTEC!

Unfortunately, seat selectors don't take account of conditions on the day. For example, if my selected seat happens to be next to a loud group of friends, I may decide to seek a quieter area of the train. In fact, I tend to make these judgements on the day anyway, so unless its a train I know is going to be ram-packed, a seat reservation is pointless for me.

 

[AlterEgo]

I think you'll find that the majority of people on AP tickets are primarily concerned about getting a decent fare. Let those who want a reservation request one, but not all will be bothered. This will mean fewer reserved seats not being taken up.

They are concerned about getting the lowest fare, and also are the most sensitive about getting a seat.

 

[yorksrob]

A big chunk of the problem is too many cheap advances on busy trains, if the pricing was right the issue was much reduced. for example on Fri June 22 I can get an advance London to Penzance for £37, as against £91 for an off peak, that train will be rammed at that time, surely that price should be higher to encourage people to travel at other times.

It depends. The AP might help them to get passengers actually travelling to Penzance, rather than everyone getting off at Reading.

Personally I find it hard to argue against cheaper fares where they make commercial sense - which they presumably do, otherwise the TOC wouldn't be offering them.

 

[yorksrob]

They are concerned about getting the lowest fare, and also are the most sensitive about getting a seat.

Not all of them will be. And I'm not arguing that they shouldn't have the option of a free seat reservation.

 

[AlterEgo]

Not all of them will be. And I'm not arguing that they shouldn't have the option of a free seat reservation.

But just about every single person, offered a free reservation, will take it on an Advance. Why wouldn’t they?

 

[yorksrob]

But just about every single person, offered a free reservation, will take it on an Advance. Why wouldn’t they?

I don't see why it has to be offered. Why not just have it available for when people request it.

 

[AlterEgo]

I don't see why it has to be offered. Why not just have it available for when people request it.

So they would have to know about it in advance? How would people know they could get a seat reservation if they were infrequent travellers? Could you prompt them during the booking process? How would you propose they obtain the reservation?