McGill's Buses - Renfrewshire & Inverclyde

[smtglasgow]

Some big reductions in Renfrewshire since they bought out Arriva. McGills are good at PR and their buses are always smart, but the network and fare offerings are pretty uninspiring. Are they still hoping to expand - if so, where?

Feels like buses in the West of Scotland are in a bad place at the moment - we’re stuck in a spiral of mediocre services and declining use.

 

[overthewater]

The way things are going the company including monkland will be smaller than what Mcgills had in 2015, but if passenger numbers are the same, and profits are up should we care? I dont remember the mini competitions being rammed full of people all the times? There is room to grow in all three areas, its just need to be more focused.

 

[Volvodart]

Some big reductions in Renfrewshire since they bought out Arriva. McGills are good at PR and their buses are always smart, but the network and fare offerings are pretty uninspiring. Are they still hoping to expand - if so, where?

With the rumours of what the Scottish Government are looking to do with buses (local authorities being allowed to run buses), I would have thought that any expansion would be outside Scotland. A lot of the current Scottish councils are Labour or Conservative led "coalitions" which seem intent of pursuing unpopular policies in the hope that the blame goes to the SNP in Holyrood. Even in Glasgow Council the SNP can be defeated if the Greens vote with the others.
There are also the Low Emission Zones proposed with no clear sufficient funding being proposed at present.

 

[overthewater]

That would be the worse thing to happen, unless most of the councils owned companies where like Lothian... ie at arms length.

 

[overthewater]

Mcgill have again been busy trying to get more SPT routes. Mind you SPT likes spending money on stupid routes... I still think they will go after 16 and 77 once there turn back up.

http://www.spt.co.uk/documents/latest/Agenda item 12.pdf
contract service ; no service; description; operator bus (proposed); bus (current); term (years); contract price; annualised price (proposed); annualised price (current) ;variance
* 7A Rutherglen - Bankhead - Glasgow McGill's Bus Service Ltd (7 yr option) operator operator 7 £155,134.00 £22,101.28 £21,532.16 £569.12
- Old operate First Glasgow

* 0917C 65 Bridgeton - Glasgow McGill's Bus Service Ltd (7 yr option) operator operator 7 £315,833.00 £44,995.39 £45,424.60 -£429.21
- Old operate First Glasgow

* 6603S3 337 Beith - Kilmarnock McGill's Bus Service Ltd (7 yr option) operator SPT (1) 7 £427,609.00 £60,919.64 £115,687.52 -£54,767.88
- Old operate Stagecoach

* 9561G1 DRT + 132 / 202 / 248 Central Lanarkshire DRT M19 / M98 / M99 /400 McGill's Bus Service Ltd operator SPT (5) 5 £2,717,040.0 0 £539,259.85 £532,187.76 £7,072.09

* DRT + 344/A / 348 / 349 / 403A/B Lanarkshire Area DRT M19 / M90 / M98 / M99 /400 / 800 McGill's Bus Service Ltd operator SPT (4) 3 £1,417,725.0 0 £469,564.97 £286,161.72 £183,403.2 5

* W007C 121 Govan - Victoria Hospital McGill's Bus Service Ltd operator SPT (1) 7 £562,625.00 £80,154.79 £78,823.68 £1,331.11

* 64/164/36 4 Halfway - Cambuslang - Carmyle - Glasgow / Newton Farm - Cambuslang - Carmyle - Parkhead McGill's Bus Service Ltd operator SPT (2) 7 £1,112,132.0 0 £158,440.72 £192,195.12 -£33,754.40
- Old operate First Glasgow

* W097D 374 Shawlands - Clarkston - Silverburn McGill's Bus Service Ltd (7 yr option) operator operator 7 £588,980.00 £83,909.48 £160,047.68 -£76,138.20
- Old operate Glasgow City bus, THAT SOME big savings Saving!!!

I still don't understand why all of route 49 been put throw, it runs on to of commercial routes, while the 312 is saving £22,153.33

 

[Observer]

Something interesting in all this.

Following an internal review, the invitations to tender were structured to provide for a longer contract period thus allowing tenderers to consider a longer term priced solution. In addition, the terms of SPT vehicle provision was amended to ensure that the original stated outcomes of the policy of reduced total cost while improving the market offering were achieved. The vehicle(s) could be provided to the operator on a full repairing lease basis for the lifetime of the contract, but with title in the vehicle(s) transferring to that operator for an agreed value at the end of the contract term.

Previously, vehicles reverted to SPT at end of contract but the revised approach involving transfer of title is designed to offer benefits to both SPT and operators by encouraging lower contract costs on the one hand, while on the other the contractors gain a vehicle(s) asset at the end of the contract term. Contracts will be reviewed on an ongoing basis to ensure that they continue to provide relevant services and meet need.

Hopefully SPT stick with buying reliable Solo SRs as opposed to previous orders.

Not like McGill's did a clean sweep anyway, plenty of other companies got work too.

 

[overthewater]

There tried once before on a Clean sweep... and give half it up before even starting.

 

[smtglasgow]

SPT seem immune to austerity. Same contracts awarded year in, year out. Can't help thinking they could do so much more with the money they're spending. As for McGills scooping up loads of low value contracts, it worked for Henderson’s for a long time. But overall it looks like McGills are facing the same headwinds as the rest of the industry.

 

[GaryMcEwan]

No doubt even though they are SPT services, the fares McGill's will have will most likely be more expensive than what the current operators charge.

 

[AlexanderPS]

Mcgill have again been busy trying to get more SPT routes. Mind you SPT likes spending money on stupid routes... I still think they will go after 16 and 77 once there turn back up.

This must be why the are looking to drop Monklands commercial services.
www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/local-news/leading-bus-operator-considering-withdrawing-12459399

"Leading bus operator considering withdrawing six "crucial" Monklands services
McGill's have entered into a four-week consultation period with SPT over potential service changes starting from next month.

• A bus operator is considering withdrawing up to six Monklands services – which local politicians say will leave communities without crucial transport connections.
  
  McGill’s have entered into a four-week consultation period with Strathclyde Partnership for Transport (SPT) over potential service changes from the end of next month.
  
  The affected routes are Airdrie to Salsburgh; Kirkshaws/Coatbridge to Caldercruix; three services from Coatbridge to Bargeddie, Townhead and Glenboig respectively; and Monklands Hospital to Cumbernauld and Kirkintilloch.
  
  Parliamentarians Alex Neil and Neil Gray, and North Lanarkshire Council leader Jim Logue, have all hit out at the proposal and plan to contact the bus firm, highlighting the impact on Monklands passengers of any loss or reductions in service.
  
  SNP politicians Mr Gray MP and Mr Neil MSP say “people from Glenmavis, Stand, Salsburgh, Caldercruix and Plains will be left with very little bus provision” if the proposal goes ahead.
  
  Mr Gray said the changes are “not acceptable” and added: “Unless McGill’s and SPT can come up with some solution, many folk in and around Airdrie will be without a regular bus service. People’s livelihoods and education are at risk if this goes ahead.
  
  "We will do all we can to ensure that the villagers in our constituencies do not suffer due to a decision based solely on figures in a balance sheet.”
  
  Mr Neil called the proposals “short-sighted” and agreed: “We will be urgently raising this issue with McGill’s and urging them to reconsider.
  
  “These routes are relied on by some of our frailest and most vulnerable people, as well as those who depend upon it to get to schools and medical appointments.
  
  “We cannot have these services taken away, leaving affected communities without a proper bus service.”
  
  Labour council leader Mr Logue, who represents the Airdrie Central ward, said: “These bus services provide vital links between communities, enabling residents to travel for work, shopping or to visit family.
  
  “To stop them is life-
  changing for some local people. This is an irresponsible proposal by McGill’s, who are putting profit before service by dropping only unsubsidised routes.
  
  “It will then be left to SPT to pick up the pieces and try to fill the gaps in service. I’ll be making my views very clear to McGill’s and SPT, and I would encourage people in these communities to do the same.”
  
  McGill’s managing director Ralph Roberts said: “McGill’s has submitted to SPT a notice of cancellation for some commercial services in the Monklands area. “We are in the statutory 28-day consultation phase with SPT, and at the end of that process, will issue full details of any changes we intend to make to routes in Monklands.”

 

[overthewater]

It's clear now, the company will not be doubling in size. Worse still the only routes left it seems are 215 to Kirkwood and 287 to chapelhall. Pink buses already run to townhead and glenboig. I would be very surprised if They didn't grab 213 and kirkshaws. Again mcgills might not get 147 replacement, spt might get a few tenders for this route.

It feels like a waste, after it spent all that money especially when the pink buses got paid off before... People linked to Silverdale always come back..

 

[AlexanderPS]

It's clear now, the company will not be doubling in size. Worse still the only routes left it seems are 215 to Kirkwood and 287 to chapelhall. Pink buses already run to townhead and glenboig. I would be very surprised if They didn't grab 213 and kirkshaws. Again mcgills might not get 147 replacement, spt might get a few tenders for this route.

It feels like a waste, after it spent all that money especially when the pink buses got paid off before... People linked to Silverdale always come back..

United (Pink) only have 5 discs which are all used on their current services. But I wonder if McNairn/JJ will try for the tenders as they still hold the 16 & 77/117 contracts in the Monklands. If it goes ahead McGills will most likely get short term tender as they did with the 206. They will leave United with Glenboig and Townhead though.

 

[Observer]

Not surprising when they've done this before, look at what happened in Dumbarton when they took on McColl's services. Where are they now?

Wouldn't be surprised if any of the companies that sold their services took them back. Any no-compete clause would be out the window if the services were cancelled.

United can always just cancel the Motherwell/Newarthill service to get a few more buses if they were to take on more.

 

[smtglasgow]

Not at all surprised about McGills pulling out of Monklands. You only need to drive through Coatbridge to realise that for a relatively deprived area it has remarkable levels of car ownership (and all heading for ASDA!) – no doubt the result of decades of cowboy bus operators. I reckon that First’s 201 is the only route making decent money in Monklands – I wouldn’t be surprised to see First pull off the 2. Still, no doubt the geniuses at SPT will reward failure again by giving McGills the tenders.

Are the pink buses Stepend or Silverdale in disguise? The ones in Motherwell seem to run around empty…

 

[overthewater]

Ralph Roberts has been wanting to get into Monklands for years ( ten actually) and when it finally happen it was like breath of fresh air. The trouble is Mcgills got the network and then just stalled. The company hasn't done anything with it, and then let united get its foot back in the door. Why waste your time on this? I thought maybe by 2017 there would look to expand on the monklands network since traffic is bad and there is alot of money to be made if there made a little effort. I think for an extra 5-7 buses there could have had a much bigger network, and been able to grab more passengers.

I think the writing was on the wall last August with the service changes when 212 when to every 20mins allowing first to hoover everyone up. Plus Mcgill never tried to get the last two non first commercial routes..

Not at all surprised about McGills pulling out of Monklands. You only need to drive through Coatbridge to realise that for a relatively deprived area it has remarkable levels of car ownership (and all heading for ASDA!) – no doubt the result of decades of cowboy bus operators. I reckon that First’s 201 is the only route making decent money in Monklands – I wouldn’t be surprised to see First pull off the 2. Still, no doubt the geniuses at SPT will reward failure again by giving McGills the tenders.

For 20 years the network has been destroyed, and although some out of the box ideas have appeared like 222? to The Fort it was badly designed and went via Balliston ete, maybe if it went up via lochend road to Townhead it would have been better.

Most people had no choice but to get a car, because there was no other options in many cases.

Are the pink buses Stepend or Silverdale in disguise? The ones in Motherwell seem to run around empty…

I say Yes. the owner is one Helen Mcgroarty https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/SC305533/filing-history

 

[overthewater]

https://www.northlanarkshire.gov.uk/index.aspx?articleid=33703

24th June: I believe that is the week of the School holls starting.

Council criticism of proposed bus service cuts
Routes affecting Airdrie, Coatbridge, Kirkintilloch and Salsburgh

The council has hit out at a bus company which is proposing to cut a number of services in the area.

McGill's has informed Strathclyde Partnership for Transport (SPT) that it wishes to withdraw six services from June 24.

Those proposals have been heavily criticised by the council. Council Leader Jim Logue said: "These bus services provide vital links between communities in North Lanarkshire, enabling residents to travel for work, shopping or to visit family, so to stop them is life changing for some local people.

"This is an irresponsible proposal by McGill's who are putting profit before service by dropping only unsubsidised routes. It will then be left to SPT to pick up the pieces and try to fill the gaps in service.

"This is an example of why this council is carrying out a feasibility study into operating some public bus services, to give residents assurances over continuity of service and reduce the risk of private companies picking and choosing which services to operate.

"I will be making my views very clear to both McGill's and SPT, and I would encourage local people in these communities to do the same."

The bus routes affected by the proposals are:

• 202 Airdrie - Salsburgh
• 212 Kirkshaws/ Coatbridge - Caldercruix
• 213 Coatbridge - Bargeddie
• 217 Coatbridge - Townhead
• 232 Coatbridge - Glenboig
• 247 Monklands Hospital - Cumbernauld - Kirkintilloch

Anyone who wishes to comment on the proposals should contact McGill's direct.

 

[158756]

I know plenty of evening services have been cut everywhere, but some of those McGills last buses are a joke.

The 217 it says is every 10 minutes, but then last bus is at 17:35? And how often does a route go from a commercial service every 10 minutes to not at all.

 

[Observer]

217 was overbussed because United does that route too so they put another bus to try and force them off, only for United to put another bus on too I think. No doubt said bus will get taken off and put on another run instead if McGill's take it off. Flooding a route with buses for the sake of trying to run someone off the road does no favours for all involved.

Just got to see what happens, if other companies take on the routes, who those companies will be, or if McGill's manages to grab more SPT money for doing them, after all they did it with the 206, they may try again.

With the word going out there no doubt a few companies will make an approach to SPT to get a route in their hands. It won't be a clean sweep, a few companies will get involved. McGill's tried to clean the area up but clearly it didn't go the way they expected it to. Not like a full pullout is happening though.

 

[overthewater]

There are a few places around the UK which have buses every 10mims but then disappear at 6pm.

217 to Townhead used to be a lot worse... When Silverdale or Stepend had it the first bus was at 8am -17pm. SPT paid for some new 3 early morning journeys, lets just say commercial operate jumped on them pretty fast once it was clear people wanted a bus at 7am, who know... Mcgills only extended the hours to 6am - 17.35 to try and get rid of the pink buses.

Monklands has been a mess for 20 years now, and it seems that will carry on.

 

[Stef434]

Ralph Roberts has been wanting to get into Monklands for years ( ten actually) and when it finally happen it was like breath of fresh air. The trouble is Mcgills got the network and then just stalled. The company hasn't done anything with it, and then let united get its foot back in the door. Why waste your time on this? I thought maybe by 2017 there would look to expand on the monklands network since traffic is bad and there is alot of money to be made if there made a little effort. I think for an extra 5-7 buses there could have had a much bigger network, and been able to grab more passengers.

I think the writing was on the wall last August with the service changes when 212 when to every 20mins allowing first to hoover everyone up. Plus Mcgill never tried to get the last two non first commercial routes..



For 20 years the network has been destroyed, and although some out of the box ideas have appeared like 222? to The Fort it was badly designed and went via Balliston ete, maybe if it went up via lochend road to Townhead it would have been better.

Most people had no choice but to get a car, because there was no other options in many cases.



I say Yes. the owner is one Helen Mcgroarty https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/SC305533/filing-history

was this person just the owner but not necessary hold the CPC for the ops license

 

[overthewater]

I doubt SPT will pay Mcgills for alot of the replacement. I can only think of 6 buses with of work that might get replaced. I would be surprised if no one stepped in to take over some work. I think SPT will only have to pay for 202 Airdrie - Salsburgh and 247 Monklands Hospital - Cumbernauld - Kirkintilloch ( there try to get that back to 3 buses) so over all its 4 buses extra.

 

[Volvodart]

McGills are hosting the ALBUM Conference soon and Passenger Transport has a supplement for the conference,

There is an article about McGills which might be of interest, particularly about what could have happened last year.

The link is here:-
http://www.passengertransport.co.uk/2018/05/read-our-supplement-the-album-report-2018/

 

[overthewater]

He still working away this year.....

 

[overthewater]

He wrote " The company's Vision is to provide a public transport network that is Modern Efficient and Integrated with other mods" It doesn't feel like that in part of renfrewshire and if clearly doesn't look like this in Monklands.

 

[smtglasgow]

Ralph Roberts seems genuine enough when he talks about improving things, but the reality with McGills has been good PR, attention to detail with things like vehicle presentation but some very cynical service reductions. Not to mention the eye-watering on-bus fares.

However, I reckon they are well set up for franchising - with their lower cost base (they pay a good bit less than First), they could pick up a lot across the west of Scotland.

Interesting to see what the Easdale's long-term plan is: stay private and keep growing?; expand and sell out to a major?; reach a size where flotation makes sense?

 

[Arriva Fan]

It'd be much better for the users if one of the Big Four take McGill's network.

First and Stagecoach both have presences close by, but First aren't in expansion mode. Stagecoach could expand their West Scotland operations into Renfrewshire and plug the gap between their Glasgow and Ayrshire networks. Go-Ahead were rumoured to be taking over a few years ago, but the Easdales had an unrealistic sale price.

And what of Arriva. Would they want their old area back now that it's been purged of the small independents? For me they'd be the preferred option.

 

[Surreyman]

It'd be much better for the users if one of the Big Four take McGill's network.

First and Stagecoach both have presences close by, but First aren't in expansion mode. Stagecoach could expand their West Scotland operations into Renfrewshire and plug the gap between their Glasgow and Ayrshire networks. Go-Ahead were rumoured to be taking over a few years ago, but the Easdales had an unrealistic sale price.

And what of Arriva. Would they want their old area back now that it's been purged of the small independents? For me they'd be the preferred option.

The MMC wouldn't allow First to take it over (And I suspect First are more likely to 'downsize' than expand at the moment), I am not sure they would allow Stagecoach either although this is debatable.

 

[overthewater]

24th June is when the cuts take.

 

[Volvodart]

The MMC wouldn't allow First to take it over (And I suspect First are more likely to 'downsize' than expand at the moment), I am not sure they would allow Stagecoach either although this is debatable.

It would more than likely be someone else rather than those 2 anyway.

 

[Observer]

Don't think it was mentioned but the 329 is on the chopping block too, not exactly surprising as it was another service that was taken on from McNairn's (although the weekend was run by SPT).

PM0000015/247 Cancelled
MCGILL'S BUS SERVICE LTD

Route: Coatbridge South Circular Road to Coatbridge Glenboig

Service number: 232

Service type: Normal Stopping

Effective date: 24 Jun 2018

PM0000015/235 Cancelled
MCGILL'S BUS SERVICE LTD

Route: Monklands Hospital to Kirkintilloch via Airdrie, Cumbernauld

Service number: 247

Service type: Normal Stopping

Effective date: 24 Jun 2018

PM0000015/236 Cancelled
MCGILL'S BUS SERVICE LTD

Route: West Nile Street, Glasgow to Stobhill Hospital

Service number: 329

Service type: Normal Stopping

Effective date: 24 Jun 2018

PM0000015/237 Cancelled
MCGILL'S BUS SERVICE LTD

Route: Coatdyke Fountain or Airdrie Stirling Street to Airdrie Stirling Street or Salsburgh Carvale Avenue

Service number: 202

Service type: Normal Stopping

Effective date: 24 Jun 2018

PM0000015/246 Cancelled
MCGILL'S BUS SERVICE LTD

Route: Coatbridge South Circular Road to Coatbridge South Circular Rood via Townhead

Service number: 217

Service type: Normal Stopping

Effective date: 24 Jun 2018

PM0000015/275 Cancelled
MCGILL'S BUS SERVICE LTD

Route: Kirkshaws, Dunblane Place to Caldercruix, Dunbreck Avenue via Old Monkland, Barrowfield, Coatdyke, Monklands Hospital, Plains

Service number: 212

Service type: Hail & Ride, Normal Stopping

Effective date: 24 Jun 2018

Sure wonder who will replace all these.