Virgin Trains East Coast franchise to end 24 June 2018 and is temporarily re-nationalised

[Tetchytyke]

Grayling: we can't allow franchises to have unlimited losses as otherwise nobody would bid for franchises.

Nobody wants unlimited losses. But franchisee losses are not unlimited: they're limited to whatever the premium is plus whatever the running costs are.

 

[Domh245]

How many new Azumas have already received Virgin branding?

Just the one I believe

The 91s and HSTs will see another livery!

Doubt it, they'll be debranded and restickered, but they won't be reliveried.

No the current VTEC one will just change it's name and branding to reflect the change to LNER

You need to have a new account to move to, you can't just rename the Twitter handle, it has to migrate to a new one

 

[Ploughman]

According to the DfT, lnerailway.co.uk is the official web address. Doesn't work yet though.



It is nice. LNER blue would like lovely.

How about Apple Green?

 

[theironroad]

Just think the Class 800s were meant to be introduced by GNER during their Franchise that started in 2005 but since then we have had GNER, National Express East Coast, East Coast, Virgin Trains East Coast and the new operator but the Class 800s are still yet to be introduced.

On a slightly different note am I right in thinking that despite what the press is saying the franchise will not be in direct state control like with East Coast but rather in the hands of the Operator of Last Resort which is a consortium of Arup Group, Ernst & Young and SNC-Lavalin Rail & Transit.

That's my understanding. DOR was wound up when VTEC took over from EC. While indirectly state controlled, the consortium will act as the interim operator.

Question is, how much is the consortium being paid ?

 

[sprinterguy]

I I like that branding. Blue livery I guess?

I wouldn't necessarily put much stake in that, looks like a generic DfT background to me. I do like the new logo, though; as noted by others it is quite reminiscent of the GNER brand. Interestingly, the wording in the concurrently published East Coast operator 2018 options report, on the DfT website, suggests that whatever the chosen brand and livery is, we should prepare to get used to it for a long while to come. It looks like they're finally going for a generic, transferable brand for the East Coast franchise:

https://assets.publishing.service.g...018-options-assessment-report-web-version.pdf
49 There are significant costs associated with changing a brand. OLR would incur these costs immediately, as it needs to replace the previous branding, logos and promotional materials of VTEC. However, because of the decision to immediately introduce a new railway brand that will apply for many decades to come, the OLR option will not incur further rebranding costs post-OLR. The VTEC option would keep current branding in the short term, but would require a rebranding exercise once VTEC ceased operation and the East Coast Partnership was in place.

And any suggestions, that aren't tongue in cheek, that the livery will mirror a supposed halcyon era from decades past just because the name's similar are quite frankly laughable: We're still in 2018, not transported back to 1935.

 

[swt_passenger]

Wouldnt their trademarks dissolve if they are in effect bankrupt.

I think the hope is that the Azuma name to not used. It is probably better that it is trademarked so that it disappears from sight...

 

[Steddenm]

New website now online and nice colour. Virgin. Red!


(Edit: image resized to a sensible size)

 

[Tetchytyke]

That's easily done. And then you would never get any competent bidders. Any ideas then?

Why wouldn't you get competent bidders?

You may get lower premiums, but then we'd be in a position to have a mature and grown up conversation about what added value the TOCs actually bring.

What you wouldn't get is incompetent bidders, like Virgin/Stagecoach.

That's my understanding. DOR was wound up when VTEC took over from EC. While indirectly state controlled, the consortium will act as the interim operator.

Question is, how much is the consortium being paid ?

DOR was sold to VTEC wasn't it?

And yes, how much the consortium is getting paid is going to be the next fascinating question.

 

[bnm]

So, the Virgin Azuma livery could be the first new livery never to see passenger service.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

On a slightly different note am I right in thinking that despite what the press is saying the franchise will not be in direct state control like with East Coast but rather in the hands of the Operator of Last Resort which is a consortium of Arup Group, Ernst & Young and SNC-Lavalin Rail & Transit.

They are simply consultants on hire to DfT, collectively branded as OLR.
It will be in public control. All costs and risks lie with DfT.
There will be independent consultants involved though, eg the Mayor of West Midlands Andy Street.
They will also be part of the evolution to the public/private partnership, details to be worked out.
A partnership, not a franchise, is what I heard Chris Grayling say.

 

[matt_world2004]

I wouldn't necessarily put much stake in that, looks like a generic DfT background to me. Interestingly, the wording in the concurrently published East Coast operator 2018 options report, on the DfT website, suggests that whatever the chosen brand and livery is, we should prepare to get used to it for a long while to come. It looks like they're finally going for a generic, transferable brand for the East Coast franchise:

Makes sense considering the franchises keep failing.

 

[OxtedSignaller]

Wish they’d move away from the tacky Virgin red. I thought that generic brand names were the way forward anyway they have been phased out by all the franchises, apart from Virgin obviously who DfT seem to make exceptions for time and time again..

 

[TUC]

As much as I like the GNER connotation I think the name is poorly chosen. However unintentionally, it suggests a London orientation which is very unhelpful to a national line.

 

[TUC]

Wish they’d move away from the tacky Virgin red. I thought that generic brand names were the way forward anyway they have been phased out by all the franchises, apart from Virgin obviously who DfT seem to make exceptions for time and time again..

But that would require a needless repaint.

 

[Tetchytyke]

But that would require a needless repaint.

A repaint that would have been at VTEC's expense. It's in the franchise agreement that they return the trains in a generic livery.

 

[HullMichael]

I have Advance paper tickets for after the changeover which are marked VTEC booked train only. I'm sure I'll be fine, but what are the chances of a jobsworth guard saying "this is not a VTEC train"?

 

[mirodo]

No the current VTEC one will just change it's name and branding to reflect the change to LNER

Yes, I meant they'll transfer the name from the one I posted to the existing @Virgin_TrainsEC (or whatever it is) in order to maintain their current followers. It's then possible they'll rename @lnerailway to @Virgin_TrainsEC, in order to mop up anyone using the old account, and post a "we have moved" tweet in order to redirect people. It's the method I adopted for our twitter accounts when the company I work for rebranded.

 

[swt_passenger]

They could always paint 800's silver, like the silver jubilee from the 30's, then the nick name could be silver bullets

How about this to give the PR department some ideas...

By the way, the whole brochure about that service has 20 sheets.
I could scan it all and put it in the nostalgia section if anyone's interested, includes seating plan, timetable, menu etc etc...

 

[TUC]

A repaint that would have been at VTEC's expense. It's in the franchise agreement that they return the trains in a generic livery.

But why bother with a new livery for a couple of years.

 

[transmanche]

So, the Virgin Azuma livery could be the first new livery never to see passenger service.

Looks like the LNER branding will fit in quite conveniently with the Azuma livery - I expect the only difference will be a different logo on the driving cars.

 

[ainsworth74]

The future of Great Northern services post Thameslink is an interesting topic and worthy of its own thread. Thankfully one now exists and can be found here. Please could we keep this thread for discussion about VTEC, LNER and this current process rather than the future of Great Northern's services.

 

[pemma]

You need to have a new account to move to, you can't just rename the Twitter handle, it has to migrate to a new one

You can change your Twitter handle but it wouldn't be wise to do that if the franchise is changing hands. It would be fine for First Group to have done it when they rebranded from First Great Western to Great Western Railway though.

 

[ainsworth74]

By the way, the whole brochure about that service has 20 sheets.
I could scan it all and put it in the nostalgia section if anyone's interested, includes seating plan, timetable, menu etc etc...

Yes please!

 

[mpthomson]

Looks like the LNER branding will fit in quite conveniently with the Azuma livery - I expect the only difference will be a different logo on the driving cars.

I suspect all that will happen is the Virgin logos will be replaced by LNER ones and the same livery kept as far as possible. Why change it if it isn't required? Livery is hardly the imperative at the moment.

 

[swt_passenger]

DOR was sold to VTEC wasn't it?
And yes, how much the consortium is getting paid is going to be the next fascinating question.

DOR was the DfT holding company, it was their subsidiary company ECML was sold to Virgin/Stagecoach.
AFAICT the OLR operating expertise comes from SNC Lavalin Rail, who were formerly Interfleet Technology. As Interfleet, they previously provided people on contract to DOR anyway.

 

[ainsworth74]

I have Advance paper tickets for after the changeover which are marked VTEC booked train only. I'm sure I'll be fine, but what are the chances of a jobsworth guard saying "this is not a VTEC train"?

There is no chance of that happening. I can't ever recall ever hearing of such a thing happening in the past at any franchise change or any other change of operator. As is being made very clear on multiple channels tickets booked for travel after the change remain valid.

 

[nat67]

New website now online and nice colour. Virgin. Red!

View attachment 46799

Its funny how they are going for the same colours as Virgin that will save money.

 

[transmanche]

DOR was sold to VTEC wasn't it?

It was the East Coast Main Line Company Ltd that was sold by DOR to Inter City Railways Ltd (the Stagecoach/Virgin joint enterprise). But that was really just a technical matter to avoid creation of a new limited company.

 

[LeeLivery]

How about Apple Green?

With the two big four resurrection brands - GWR and Southern, being shades of green, I'd prefer blue but I wouldn't complain

 

[mallard]

So, the Virgin Azuma livery could be the first new livery never to see passenger service.

What about the original Thameslink Class 700 livery? A livery similar to that applied to the mockup was applied to at least some of the units before they arrived in the UK. Here's a picture I took at Stuttgart in 2014; showing a different logo (meaning it wasn't just unfinished; the logo was actually changed) to what appeared on the final livery.